Lichen moss for chameleon enclosure?

[reptileguy112]

I found tons of moss on trees while I was in tahoe and decided to take home a branch with some for my enclosure.I think it is fruticose lichen.Whatever grows on the trees in tahoe is what it is.It looks like the more mature moss growths have black spots on the tips.You decide by what you know about lichens to figure out what type it is. Is it okay for the chameleon to eat if she takes a nibble?It looks great in my cage and I hope it doesn't go into shock and die from the huge temp and humidity change.

 

[Manu]

Hello!



Using lichens as "plants" in your terrarium could be a good thing indeed.
They provide proper structure, they can help to stabilize humidity and they'll also work well as a natural dripper - especially for younger animals/smaller species.
In my experience some species of the genus Trioceros are ingesting certain lichens as a supplementary diet.

Lifespan of lichens in terraria: Basically, it can be said that they are doing much better in terraria for (sub-)montane species.
So using them in terraria for tropical species makes less sense.



With the best regards,
Emanuel

 

[reptileguy112]

sounds great.do you know how fast it spreads?

 

[deerharvester]

I wouldn't use lichen, i watched a thing on tv where it was killing elk that were eating it. So, i would have to say it's toxic.

Scott

 

[Manu]

Hi Scott!



As mentioned, some species of the genus Trioceros are eating lichens in appropriate amounts from time to time but they do it specifically.
I have always kept montane Trioceros ssp. in terraria "decorated" with plenty of lichens and I still do.
There was never even one case of intoxication over the years and quite a few generations (this year I've had my first Trioceros jacksonii xantholophus F5 offspring) of chameleons - quite the opposite, below the line they did very well. Of course, I don't know if eating lichens really play a namable part in keeping-/breeding-success, but out of experience I know, that they are no risk (always concerning montane Trioceros ssp.).

@reptileguy112: As mentioned, keeping lichens alive for extended periods is only possible in submontane terraria... - and in my experience it really has to go towards montane, harsh conditions to enable real development or even spreading. That takes quite a lot of time.
I was not successful in "really cultivating" the greater part of lichen species even until today, but at least some have spread already.



With the best regards,
Emanuel

 

[Mike Fisher]

I keep lichen in my enclosures for Trioceros perreti and several of the Kinyongia species. I've got an old maple tree that sheds branches with moss on them and I repurpose them.

 

[Manu]

That's how I kept my (sub-)montane Trioceros species.
Currently I am only keeping Trioceros jacksonii, because I had to reduce my stock significantly due to personal health problems.










Various animals mainly ate the tips of the "beards" (genus Usnea), whereas I didn't observed a significant ingestion of the other "forms".



With the best regards,
Emanuel

 

[reptileguy112]

thanx for the answers. I will try to get some more lichens in.Mine are really dry, is that normal? Also I have asked this to different peole and never got a strait out answer:how high can the plants be? My chameleon has a good 6-7" from its head to the top. Can I put taller plants in there? Thank you!

 

[Carlton]

thanx for the answers. I will try to get some more lichens in.Mine are really dry, is that normal? Also I have asked this to different peole and never got a strait out answer:how high can the plants be? My chameleon has a good 6-7" from its head to the top. Can I put taller plants in there? Thank you!

The plants can't really be "too" tall. Chams will climb as high as their setup allows them to. Height equals safety.

The only comment I'd have about using live lichens would be the possibility that a species native to our continent exposes the cham to something irritating or noxious that it doesn't have any natural resistance to. Probably only an issue if the cham chews on the plant structure. Lichens are known to bioaccumulate heavy metals such as mercury from atmospheric deposition.

 

[Manu]

Concerning fruticose and - even more - beard lichen: They aren't able to cope with much pollution, in many cases not even for shorter times.
That means that they'll get brown within a few weeks with starting to show the first signs a few days after exposition.
Take a look at the part of the population you are standing in front of/that surrounds you - if it's healthy looking and lushy, ad-/absorbtion of toxins is practically excluded.

By the way: Lichen (e. g. the genus Usnea as mentioned above) do grow in the habitats of not few species of chameleons,
so they are all but unknown to some chameleon-species.



With the best regards,
Emanuel

 

[reptileguy112]

But the plants need to be low enough for the chameleon to not touch its head on the top though?If the plants are to high wouldn't it be to hot for the chameleon?

 

[Carlton]

But the plants need to be low enough for the chameleon to not touch its head on the top though?If the plants are to high wouldn't it be to hot for the chameleon?

Your cham should be able to move farther and closer to the light/heat as it needs to. The parts of the plants that get too close to the heat will self prune themselves.

 

[Carlton]

Concerning fruticose and - even more - beard lichen: They aren't able to cope with much pollution, in many cases not even for shorter times.
That means that they'll get brown within a few weeks with starting to show the first signs a few days after exposition.
Take a look at the part of the population you are standing in front of/that surrounds you - if it's healthy looking and lushy, ad-/absorbtion of toxins is practically excluded.

By the way: Lichen (e. g. the genus Usnea as mentioned above) do grow in the habitats of not few species of chameleons,
so they are all but unknown to some chameleon-species.



With the best regards,
Emanuel

It sounds as if you know a lot more about them than I do which is great! I made the comment about bioaccumulation because my agency currently uses some lichen species to measure atmospheric deposition of mercury. I'm sure there are lichens that do grow within the natural ranges of many species of chameleon. I just meant that there are hundreds of species and there is the possibility that some are quite different from the species in their native ranges.

 

[Manu]

Hi Carlton!

I just meant that there are hundreds of species and there is the possibility that some are quite different from the species in their native ranges.

I thought so.
That's why I particularly mentioned the genus Usnea - nearly all of them do not tolerate pollution - whereas other (absolutely unrelated) species are able to cope with significantly increased short-term pollution and partiallyalso with ("just") increased pollution over longer periods.
Most of this lichen are more "primitive"/less "complex" and so they look like. In so far they may be uninteresting for terraristic anyway.

Bye the way: If you are interested, there are a few papers about the "beards" (Usnea ssp.) in East Africa.

What I didn't mentioned so far: I live in Europe, so the "Old World" and I know just very little about lichen (which species, distribution, ...) in the "New World". So thank you for your words/remembering me (I always forget/am otherwise just writing in German-speaking online forums sometimes)!



With the best regards,
Emanuel

 

[reptileguy112]

Ok, I just rearranged the cage so there are vines closer to the top.How does it look? I got some spanish moss for $3 at home depot.The lichens are in the pic also to the left.There is a bucket in the after pic because she is gravid.
***Before Pic***

***After Pic***

 

[reptileguy112]

They are bad pic, totally does not do justice.

 

[Manu]

Hi!



Looks good!
I would add either a little bit more branches or fix some epiphytes on the branches you already have in your terrarium (or a little of each ).
Apropos: Spanish Moss (Tillandsia usneoides) is an excellent indicator for the quality of your enclosures micro-climate, as it generally prefers environmental conditions that are quite similar to many chameleons needs.
I hope, your moss is alive for the greater part, on the photo it looks quite brown/not very alive and that would be too bad, as many (not all!) forms of this plant grow very quickly under suitable conditions, what also makes them to ideal terrarium plants.
So if you have the chance to, you may get more of this plants. I kept them outdoors in the fruit trees during the summer (what looked quite nice) and indoors in greenhouses during the winter (at a minimum temperature of about 4°C and almost completetely dry - during the coldest time, when even day temperatures stay that low, I didn't watered them at all; I live in the middle of the Austrian Alps). Aquarium water (bio-filtered+UVC filter) makes them grow strong and healthy, leaf fertilization is also possibility (but dosage has to be absolutely mild&safe!!!).
With this care, most of the beards will grow nearly man-size within a few years as you can see on the photos, and you'll have nice decoration in the garden during the summer and there will always be enough "material" to take away and put into your terrarium.
Oh: NO (chemical) plant protection of course (this plants would react VERY sensitive to it anyway), and also NO (artificial/chemical) fertilization bevor putting "baby beards" into the terrarium.


With the best regards,
Emanuel


Winter-greenhouse:


Summer resp. spring-plum tree:


Far the largest part of the beards goes back to just a few of them at the beginning, so they are really easy to grow - but your starting material has to be healthy.