Lowe's substrate?

[Calypso]

So im getting ready to change out the substrate, and I'm wondering if I can get some type of substrate from Lowes that would be the same? I figure it'll be the same thing just much cheaper and more? Im kind of short on cash moving right now, so this would help a lot. Any help would be muchly appreciated.

 

[RealIzeRecognIze]

Nobody recommends using substrate because it can impact your cham if eaten, it can grow moldy and seems to me like it would be difficult to clean up poo. I just use papertowels, newspaper or phonebook pages cause we always get phone books..

 

[Zubi]

Its actually recommended that you put no substrate at all because the cham can eat it and die of impaction

 

[Calypso]

I know thats what Ive always been told. However, Ive been doing it with her forever, and with the multiple animals that are in the enclosure that the moisture is beneficial to I think its more good than harm. I usually use the fine trex jungle bedding, with the Reptibark and hyrdoton balls. The materials are all very fine as to not cause impaction if consumed. Shes mostly hand fed, and Ive only a hand full of times seen her actually hunt something from the bottom. I just figured maybe some organic soil, and some type of Finely chopped bark with hydroton.

 

[chameleoman]

why would you ask a question if you know people are going to go against it yes people refuse to listen and put substrate in there cages and what happens. . . .a week or two later there over here on the forums begging for help because there cham got sick and ate some soil, bark, ect. . . so we are all telling you to not put substrate its best advised you do what experienced people are telling you to do

 

[pssh]

What do you mean multiple animals? Like multiple chameleons? What species? Sometimes it is more acceptable to use substrate with certain species.

 

[Calypso]

Wow, yeah so actually I was just about to say that Im thinking about doing something different. I had sent a post right after my last one but it didnt seem to work I guess. Im thinking about changing it up, but not sure what I should do. You see, I have a veiled, madagascar day gecko, crested gecko mating pair, florida green snake, red eyed tree frog, and a red legged walking frog. Because the cresteds lay eggs so much and because of the frogs enjoying the moisture Ive thought this would be the best set up for everyone. If yall have a recommendation that may be able to acccmodate all their needs Im all ears.

 

[CHScrusader]

I have Eco Earth that everyone says is SOOOO bad. But it's at the bottom and Chams stay up top.. It doesn't have a Nasty odor and it keeps the humidity in great.. Love it.. Cheap too!!! Ps.. My Cham is worn fed out of a bowl in the plant

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

I have Eco Earth that everyone says is SOOOO bad. But it's at the bottom and Chams stay up top.. It doesn't have a Nasty odor and it keeps the humidity in great.. Love it.. Cheap too!!! Ps.. My Cham is worn fed out of a bowl in the plant

You do know it's not just food they shoot at right? Even drops of water. There are far better ways to keep humidity up.

 

[Trillian]

Calypso, could you clarify your setups? From reading it sounds like all your herps are in one enclosure together!

 

[camaleonte82]

You do know it's not just food they shoot at right? Even drops of water. There are far better ways to keep humidity up.

agreed. my veiled female would eat shed cricket skin off the bottom of the cage if i didnt clean it. they are little boogers sometimes. besides. no substrate makes clean up easier

Calypso, could you clarify your setups? From reading it sounds like all your herps are in one enclosure together!

i agree. that kind of worries me

 

[Kmw]

I know thats what Ive always been told. However, Ive been doing it with her forever, and with the multiple animals that are in the enclosure

You see, I have a veiled, madagascar day gecko, crested gecko mating pair, florida green snake, red eyed tree frog, and a red legged walking frog.

All of these are in ONE enclosure??

 

[camaleonte82]

having multiple animals from different parts of the world is just begging for trouble. evolution is not a word that means humans came from monkeys. it means species change and adapt to their environment. and all those species changed in different ways according to their home land and keeping them together will bring up problems they would never encounter in the wild and thats trouble (i.e bacteria, predatory instincts in one or multiple of them etc)

 

[Calypso]

Yeah they've been in the same cage since they were all pretty much hatchlings and what not. Its pretty large. I cant remember what the dimensions are, but its a custom mesh cage about 5 foot tall give or take and about 3.5x3.5. I wondered if maybe there would be problems as they got older, but they all seem to have just grown up together. The only time the female veil has shown any aggression is when she was put near another male veiled and/or a male jackson also there was a tree frog that went missing... Other than that with two lizards being diurnials and two being nocturnal Im guessing they manage to share their enclosure. Even when the cresteds are woken up the veil doesnt pay much attention. The day gecko and the veil even share a basking spot. I do understand different species can be harmful, but I dont have anything like a tiger salamander notorious for harmful bacteria and parasites. With regular vet visits and communal behavior Ive just had no reason to change the way theyre living.

As I was saying, if yall have any recommendations Im all ears.

 

[chameleoman]

if yall have any recommendations Im all ears.

yes i do SEPARATE THEM!!!!

 

[Kmw]

Oh boy. I fully understand that not every "rule" is meant to be law. And some things can bend under proper care and knowledge. But this has disaster written all over it.

 

[CaptainMorgantown]

It isn't just us that would tell you to immediately separate everything, I think that anyone would. Not only could they be harmful to each other, but all of them need different habitats.

I have been keeping frogs far longer than chameleons, and your two frogs alone should not ever be kept together. One is from the Amazon and one is from Africa. As delicate as red-eyes are, I have no idea how it has managed to survive. Have you had it for long? As for not having any harmful bacteria, the skin of your red-leg is toxic to any other animal that comes into contact with it, especially if they share a water bowl. The red-leg also needs lower humidity in the cage than the red-eye.

These need to all be separated immediately. You will not get any other advice from this other than that. I know that you think they are fine, but they are not. You could be unknowingly killing all of them, and you would have no idea. Frogs never show any sign that there is something wrong, and even a skilled vet would have a hard time finding anything. For the sake of your pets, please separate them.

 

[AllFallDown]

Personally, I am interested in hearing a little more about Calypso's setup and how things have gone.

You seem pretty confident in the safety of your animals- I would guess you have noticed that this kind of set up makes people feel a bit nervous. How long have you had them like this. You mentioned that they have lived this way practically since being hatched.
About how long has this been? Months, years? Do they ever display aggression toward each other? Toward you? Any major problems (did I read correctly you have had some citizens disappear)?

I am going to hold off on the substrate bashing right now and instead say, if you are going to use substrate, I would advise avoiding Lowes at least until you have a pretty good idea of what you are buying there. Stuff you get at lowes is for landscaping, stuff you get at the petstore is for pets. Lowes stuff may or may not be treated, picked through to remove dangerous bits, etc... Petstore stuff, no guarantees but given what they are marketing their products for you would hope for their sake they would make the effort to make it somewhat safe (ha!).
Personally, if I was inclined to get "substrate" for controlling humidity, I would prepare a substrate mix (IE something like coco and hydroton would be my natural intuition, or just hydroton, maybe some of those tiny rockwool cubes would be good- something nice and neutral), make a layer of that at the bottom of the cage (like an inch or two) and then top it with a breathable "reptile carpet" like the kind you find at petco. That is what I would do personally- if I was so inclined (Well, I would do something along these lines). The danger here is microbial growth of course so I would be very very careful. Personally, I do not use substrate at all.

 

[Olimpia]

Yes, there is a reason why zoos only put together displays of animals from the same ecosystem, and in fairly large cages. It doesn't sound to me like all of your species are compatible, and some of them may end in danger sooner or later. Additionally, we don't know how long you've had this set-up, so if the veiled is only about 6-7 months old, wait until she's full grown and starts taking interest in larger prey. I find that the eyes on my girls are bigger than their stomachs, and if allowed, they will shoot for the single largest male roach in the whole colony, and not the more moderately sized nymph you'd think she'd go for!

However, you've received enough comments on the mixing of species. On to the soil question. I do and have used soil from Lowe's almost exclusively in my vivariums, particularly their organic (perlite- and fertilizer-free) soils and topsoils, which never contain anything except small pieces of wood or moss. This, set over a layer of the hydroballs (separated by a layer of window screening or something similar) is a very simple way to set up the ground in a vivarium. Just make sure there are no little perlite balls, fertilizers, or insecticides. Then you plant whatever plants you want into the layer of soil and you're good to go.

That said, I don't use soil on the floor of my chameleon cages for the sake of cleanliness, but I do with all my other reptiles. But this is the same soil I use in the laying bins of my females, which I do keep in the cage at all times, or at least most of the time. It does well for laying as well, I find, and even better when mixed with just a little washed play sand. Because you have a female veiled, do you have any way to make a 12" layer of substrate or provide a much deeper laying container for when she does need to lay eggs?