MARIO

[sebitto]

Your Chameleon – Mario, Trioceros Hoehnelii, baby (5 weeks)
Handling - None
Feeding – Fruit flies
Supplements – Calcium without D3, once a week.
Watering – Twice daily, manual spray (1 minute mid-morning, 1 minute midafternoon)
Fecal Description – white and black, (although haven’t found a new sample in last couple of days)
History – Was gifted with him a week and a half ago. Was healthy when I first got him. Moved around, saw him feed and drink.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Exoterra glass Terrarium, has airflow vent up front and screen mesh up top. 45 cm (18 inches) x 45 cm (18 inches) x 60 cm (24)
Lighting – 5.0 exoterra UVB bulb (brand new) and 25 W spot light, 12:12 cycle
Temperature - basking temp 32oC and ambient day 27oC (22oC after misting, 25oC nighttime)
Humidity – 60 – 80%
Plants – Begonia, ficus and pothos
Placement – Indoors close to window, but never gets direct sunlight.
Location - Madrid, Spain

Current Problem –

The last 4-5 days Mario has been looking unhappy. I don´t see him moving much and he is spending long periods of time with his eyes closed or semi-open. I haven´t seen him catch a fly or drink in a couple of days and he has me worried. 4-5 days coincides with his last shed, which he had a little trouble with, but is all shed now.

Yesterday I came home from work (6pm) to find him sitting on a pothos branch close to the cage floor with his eyes closed. He spent the whole night there and was still there this morning at 8am when I left home for work.

I´m thinking the temperatures are too high, but I´m not sure how to bring them down for the little guy. We have no AC at home, and I´ve read that fans aren´t the greatest for chameleons. Any ideas?

I´ll try and post a few pics of his enclosure and set up when I get home from work.

Thanks!!

 

[sebitto]

Mario, looking not too happy

His original enclosure, minus UV tube (which is with Mario in new temporary enclosure)

Setup for new, temporary enclosure. I´m hoping I´ll be able to better monitor his health this way. The green box on top is a sonic humidifier which turns on for 15 minutes every hour during the day to help maintain humidity.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have a few hoehnelii adults I bought in April and two clutches around your baby's age, one older and one younger. I know very little about the species. I lost one baby that declined much as your baby has.

The research I have done--all anecdotal--suggests they want it really cold at night. I think my enclosures are kept a lot more humid than yours--I mist many times a day--and I definitely mist before lights out to raise the humidity through the night. I keep mine colder than you do.

I was also told that the babies need to be with their clutchmates for a certain amount of time, and if separated stress out. I did notice that when I cleaned the enclosure (a glass enclosure 45cm cubed) that they just flattened in the temporary box even though it had a bit of cover for them in the box. I didn't like that stress response, and when someone told me they needed their siblings, it made a lot more sense.

 

[MeruJack]

I believe it is WAY too hot for a baby. Babies need ambient temperatures in the 70'sF with a drop at night and NO BASKING bulb. Also, to help him find his food during this transition time I would set up a feeder station for him using a piece of fruit or carrot to cause the flies to concentrate in one place for easy target practice (see pic below).

Lighting – 5.0 exoterra UVB bulb (brand new)

Also, it is recommended that the UVB light for babies be an OLDER (six months or older) 5.0 or a NEW 2.0. I have babies right now and they have a 2.0 UVB tube light. The new 5.0 may be too strong/concentrated for him and may cause eye & health problems.

I WISH YOU AND MARIO THE BEST! Please keep us posted!

 

[MeruJack]

Here's the light I use available from Amazon.com, elsewhere on the internet, and in some pet stores.

It's REALLY important that you get the heat down ASAP. Get rid of the basking light. And get a 2.0 UVB light TODAY if possible (or raise the 5.0 light several feet above Mario's enclosure for the next couple of days until the new one arrives). Provide extra mistings to keep him hydrated until this emergency passes.

He looks plump and healthy. If you act FAST you can probably save him.

 

[Chamifornia]

Poor boy. I hope he gets better. I know nothing about them so I'd follow ^^^^ that advice. That uvb is super close to him so if a 2.0 is what should be used find a way to keep it a few feet away from him or put extra screen over it to lower the output. Good luck they are a gorgoes chameleon

 

[MeruJack]

Mario, looking not too happy

How's Mario doing now?

 

[sebitto]

How's Mario doing now?

Thanks for all the advice folks.

Ive moved uvb further away (waiting on 2.0) and spot has been off since I put him in his emergency enclosure. I have managed to lower temps to 23oC during the day and 19oC at night using frozen bottles of water placed on the outside of the cage... but Mario is still not doing much.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thanks for all the advice folks.

Ive moved uvb further away (waiting on 2.0) and spot has been off since I put him in his emergency enclosure. I have managed to lower temps to 23oC during the day and 19oC at night using frozen bottles of water placed on the outside of the cage... but Mario is still not doing much.

Get the humidity up really high and keep it up--in the 80% or higher range. Put in more live plants to help keeping it up.

 

[sebitto]

Humidity up to 80%, misting very often not letting it dry between misting, is this ok?

 

[jajeanpierre]

I've put in asparagus ferns in with my babies. They hold a lot of water on their fine little leaves--it's like there are droplets of water filling the space. A pothos has much smaller actual suface area that can old a droplet of water. I have two clutches right now, a clutch of 11 born May 6 and a clutch of 6 born May 21. They are both now housed in the same type of enclosure, a glass 45cm cubed terraiaum. I lost one of the six and am not liking the way another looks. The difference between the two clutches is the amount of plants in the enclosure--one is stuffed with plants since there are 11 babies and the other isn't since there was only six. I think that's the problem I'm having--humidity. I hope I'm not too late. Keep paper towels on the floor soaked. Keep in mind, any information/advice I'm giving you was given to me by someone who got it for me from a friend of his that has been successful raising them. I have zero experience with the species. I bought my trio of adults as newly imported (farmed in Kenya) in April.

 

[JGuinan007]

Keeping temps low 70-75 and constant humidity 80% that high how do you prevent mold and bacteria, aren't you concerned about URI? Wouldn't you want it to dry between mistings?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Keeping temps low 70-75 and constant humidity 80% that high how do you prevent mold and bacteria, aren't you concerned about URI? Wouldn't you want it to dry between mistings?

I don't think so. Have you ever been in the tropics during the rainy season? I don't think you understand how humid a rain forest is. Mold and bacteria are everywhere. Not every mold or bacteria is pathogenic.

 

[JGuinan007]

I don't think so. Have you ever been in the tropics during the rainy season? I don't think you understand how humid a rain forest is. Mold and bacteria are everywhere. Not every mold or bacteria is pathogenic.

Yes I have in Washington, that's why I am asking. I do understand how humid rainforest are there is no need to be snippy. Why is a URI not a concern?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yes I have in Washington, that's why I am asking. I do understand how humid rainforest are there is no need to be snippy. Why is a URI not a concern?

Washington? Nowhere in the US has the oppressive humidity of the tropics during the rainy season.

Why would URI be a concern? Why would an animal kept in the conditions it evolved in get sick?

 

[JGuinan007]

Washington? Nowhere in the US has the oppressive humidity of the tropics during the rainy season.

Why would URI be a concern? Why would an animal kept in the conditions it evolved in get sick?

So you're saying this species evolved not to get a URI in these conditions. Ok i guess that answers my question thank you for educating me.

 

[MeruJack]

Well, it looks like he's moving around a bit and his eyes are open. That's a big improvement. CONGRATULATIONS! Remember, this is an emergency situation. Once you get past this you will be able to relax and enjoy Mario so much more. When you get the 2.0 light and work out the humidity and lighting in his glass enclosure, you will be able to move him back in there and both of you will be much happier. Hang in there! He's definitely worth the current effort. Great job! Keep it up!

 

[jajeanpierre]

So you're saying this species evolved not to get a URI in these conditions. Ok i guess that answers my question thank you for educating me.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

Why do you think humidity causes upper respiratory infections in a species that lives in a rain forest?

I think the upper respiratory infections that you constantly see in the Health section on CF have more to do with a compromised immune system, Vitamin A deficiency and general poor health from poor husbandry both before the eggs were even laid all the way to purchase and beyond.

Having worked with some pretty mangled wild caughts, I have been astounded at their resistance to disease and infection.

 

[sebitto]

Thanks for the encouragement!!

This afternoon I placed him and his tub in the sun and he perked right up. I was able to enjoy watching him eat 5 flies! I hope that means he's been helping himself to a few while I've not been looking. The natural sun session lasted about 20 mins, after which Mario closed his eyes again and started wondering around blind. I took him back to his cool room then.

Hoping he's a little stronger tomorrow.

 

[MeruJack]

I was able to enjoy watching him eat 5 flies! I hope that means he's been helping himself to a few while I've not been looking.

The best way to know if he is eating and drinking is to look for poop! Yep! I have seven 10 day old babies and I rarely see them eat but everyday there are more little poops on leaves and branches. And the white part attached to the poop tells me they are drinking as well. Good luck with your continued vigil.