Mbd??

[Cherron]

Beni,

What MBD looks like: http://www.adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html

As far as I can tell what you keep showing on Haseks Chameleon is fat and muscle. The bones do not seem crooked to me.
Did you ever see this cham in real life?

-Brad

i am not at all saying anything about hasek's chameleons and i am not trying to enter this argument, nor am i saying anything negative about you brad, but these pictures are of SEVERE mbd where the animal is close to death.. if you wait until your cham looks this way before suspecting mbd and correcting husbandry, surely your chameleon will die.

the first signs of mbd are weakness, lethargy, shakiness, inaccuracy with tongue, rubbery casque, among others.. the bowed or broken bones follow there after... please don't use these pictures as a reference when looking for early signs of mbd.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I realize those pictures are extreme examples, but I believe that Beni was trying to show crooked limbs where there were none and was not hearing me or several others on this thread when we were trying to explain that all that was visible from the pics was developed musculature.
I asked if the cham had been diagnosed by a vet and I did bring up other early sign symptoms. (rubbery casque) on this thread.
It is just as harmful to show pictures of a healthy animal and say that it has MBD.

-Brad

 

[Chameleon Company]

I didn't want to get caught up in the bickering, so I scimmed a couple of posts. The first issue with MBD is diagnosing that it is the problem. I have seen references to "the shakes", "bow legs", "loss of coordination" etc. All are valid symptoms, some more than others. Here's the first best sure-fire test. The first measurable symptom that will show definitively in any chameleon with MBD is its biting force. If it has MBD, it can't bite well. So pick an appropriate sized finger (maybe where gloves for an adult, although MBD is more common in smaller growing chameleons) and let it bite you. Where MBD is present, you will not only have a weak bite, but you will also see more flexing of the chameleons jaw and skull, sometimes significantly. It is the very first visible sign ... before shakes, bow-legs, etc. Trust me, once it bites, you will know. MBD afflicted chameleons cannot bite hard.

As for dusting, I saw someone mention twice a month as a regimen, with calcium with D-3. For insect dusting, I would be more inclined to recommend twice a week with a calcium D-3. Much of it is lost from the cricket before consumption, so its a very inexact science.

Now the children can get back to the bickering.

 

[Dave Weldon]

...The first measurable symptom that will show definitively in any chameleon with MBD is its biting force...

Howdy Jim,

Funny that you should mention biting force. I've got a ~7yr-old Veiled that I worry about. The other day, I was hand-feeding him since he can't shoot for himself anymore and I somewhat consciously let him bite my finger to see what kind of chewing force he had left for his dubia roaches. It kind of reminded me of slamming a finger in a car door . Well, it's a good benchmark to hold and test again when necessary, after I get my courage up again .

 

[Melany]

Hey,
You wondered... "if (...) what is the point of even posting here?" That is exactly what I was trying to get at, the point of posting here is to have another source to learn from, that people here can give you an answer to your question and it's up to you to research the correct answer from multiple sources. Use your example of the female veiled paper as a reason why one might look at a few reliable sources to find the most correct answer before mating their female.

You said ..."To determine what is right or wrong (...) I think thats part of what's going on here"... I say, exactly.

You said..."if there is some doubt (...) asking for clarification is IMHO the best solution." ... And I couldn't agree more also looking it up from a few different resources helps too... I love everyones suggestions referring to other links to check out and visual images especially when age, species, and general info is given in reference to the photo.

I really do enjoy the information pooling that happens here.
~Mel