chameleongirl2
New Member
ya well maybe some people just don't know, i think we should all make sure it is correct before posting it, some people don't even know, i am sure i have done it before with out knowing
Misinformation
- Thread starter Lizardlover
- Start date
Chris Anderson said..."When news of certain CF bulbs being associated with eye issues broke, people grouped all CF bulbs together as bad, not just the ones that had problems associated with them and that sentiment has been passed on time and time again even though the companies changed the detrimental formulas years ago. To this day people are posting this same misinformation and often its because people didn't take the time to correct other people when they posted it in another thread"...if a chameleon is having eye issues, IMHO it doesn't hurt to see if its the bulb that is causing them. No harm done if the bulb is not the issue...it just eliminates one possibility...but IMHO there is no way of knowing if some bulbs might still cause problems without trying it. Just like at a doctor's office, questions are asked to eliminate possible causes for a person's illness before the real reason for it is often found. (I think Dr. House does that on TV sometimes, even though his methods are a little unorthodox. 
Well..maybe a little more than a little unorthodox. ).
Sandra said..."I am not in favour of heavy censorship"...me either. It can chase people away. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and sometimes things that may not work for one person work for another one....so we can't always judge.
Fluxlizard said..."If we allow only a single viewpoint and classify everything else as misinformation, we stop questioning our husbandry and stagnate and stop progressing "...I agree!
Concerning glass and wood cages..I was one of the people who used them from the beginning over 20 years ago. I kept my mouth shut about it for a long time especially when everyone was saying the only thing to use was an all screen cage. ..then I finally decided that since my chameleons did well in the glass cages, why shouldn't it be said.
Well..maybe a little more than a little unorthodox. ).Sandra said..."I am not in favour of heavy censorship"...me either. It can chase people away. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and sometimes things that may not work for one person work for another one....so we can't always judge.
Fluxlizard said..."If we allow only a single viewpoint and classify everything else as misinformation, we stop questioning our husbandry and stagnate and stop progressing "...I agree!
Concerning glass and wood cages..I was one of the people who used them from the beginning over 20 years ago. I kept my mouth shut about it for a long time especially when everyone was saying the only thing to use was an all screen cage. ..then I finally decided that since my chameleons did well in the glass cages, why shouldn't it be said.
I think the misconception that new members are new to the hobby needs to be eleviated. I may be new to this forum but I have been in this 'hobby' for many years, going as far back as discussing reptile husbandry with Dick Bartlett on the Compuserve forums in the 80's on my Commodore 64. There are many repetitive threads here. People generally buy something on impulse and then try to figure out how to take care of it after they get it home and it isn't as easy as they expected. It is easier to post a repetitive question then to search for the answer. It might be a good idea to start a forum for new chameleon owners. They can post there questions there and not innodate the main threads. Experienced members can then choose to read that thread and help if they wish. A few stickies at the top of the thread may help.
Lizardlover
New Member
I totally agree, which is why I stated previously that I believe reputation points should be weighted a lot more than they are. Some senior members are just as bad as beginners, while some Junior members come to the forum offering lots of knowledge and insight to the hobby.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Good point. I had a lot of experience (not all of it good) prior to stumbling upon this forum.
I also used a Vic20 and Commodore 64
Some of the newbies know LOTS - I continue to learn from them (and the rest also)
I think if people used the search function there would be alot less "newbie" questions. However getting upset at people for asking is also frustrating. Aren't we all here to learn and share info? If it wasn't for new people to this forum where would it go? I am new here myself and it would be smart to have a whole section for start up and commonly asked questions. I started this project with my son and it's really not that complicated, after having a 200 gallon reef tank it's pretty easy! But threads that discourage people from asking ? Sorry I don't understand that reasoning....
Lizardlover
New Member
To answer your question, without Newbie questions this forum would probably be filled with more experienced people sharing insight on rarer species we don't commonly get in captivity, that they have had the opportunity to care for. As other people have mentioned the forum is just a lot less interesting and a lot more redundant. I don't think we should discourage people from asking all together but I do think we should tell people to try the search function before just asking.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
...if a chameleon is having eye issues, IMHO it doesn't hurt to see if its the bulb that is causing them. No harm done if the bulb is not the issue...it just eliminates one possibility...but IMHO there is no way of knowing if some bulbs might still cause problems without trying it. Just like at a doctor's office, questions are asked to eliminate possible causes for a person's illness before the real reason for it is often found. (I think Dr. House does that on TV sometimes, even though his methods are a little unorthodox.
My issue isn't with recommending changing the light bulb when there is an eye issue. Eliminating reasonable possibilities is a useful technique to tackling an ailment. My issue is with the people who are looking at a write up of a setup when there is nothing wrong with the chameleon and telling a keeper that they need to get rid of CF bulbs because they are all dangerous. Similarly, telling them they need to get rid of CF bulbs because they are all dangerous when the health issue could in no way be attributed to the bulb. The harm in making false, damaging statements about a good product is that it stifles successes of keepers who could otherwise have benefitted from a legitimate product had misinformed individuals not touted bad information about it with such gusto.
Chris
Jeez, let a man vent a little. Lizardlover et al. weren't trying to bash all newbs for ever speaking. Sometimes particular threads are a little frustrating and we all need to vent to get it out and move on. Putting it here prevents commenting with frustration on the real threads. I don't think it's fair to get upset with people just trying to help and it would be a shame to discourage those with good intentions because those are the ones that will probably be most interested in learning. At least here it's just a bunch of sourpusses commiserating (myself included), and not being hostile to anyone about it. Sometimes it is a little frustrating to have to argue with someone about particular issues that have been beaten to death many times, newbie or not. Nothing wrong with venting a little...
It's the "touting with gusto", as Chris perfectly put it, of bad info that I have issue with anyway, not new members specifically. Older members are guilty of it too at times.
I think incorrect info that's posted is quickly pointed out, usually by multiple people, so I doubt we're in real danger of allowing the perpetuation of bad info for more than a few pages of a thread at most usually. Share the knowledge, but do it nicely.
It's the "touting with gusto", as Chris perfectly put it, of bad info that I have issue with anyway, not new members specifically. Older members are guilty of it too at times.
I think incorrect info that's posted is quickly pointed out, usually by multiple people, so I doubt we're in real danger of allowing the perpetuation of bad info for more than a few pages of a thread at most usually. Share the knowledge, but do it nicely.
Elizadolots
New Member
I was recently told by a moderator that the appropriate thing to do when confronted with a post with bad information is flag it and let the mods handle it.
I'm not sure how I feel about that because I tend to side with those who think a discussion of the issue is better and that will involve posting that I disagree.
But, I do put that out there as something that can be done.
I'm not sure how I feel about that because I tend to side with those who think a discussion of the issue is better and that will involve posting that I disagree.
But, I do put that out there as something that can be done.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I believe that is part of what the "Advanced topics" area is intended for.
Elizadolots
New Member
flash134
New Member
Just my 2 Cents: As a semi new member of the forum but with a lot of experience, IE: jacksonii. Believe me I am no expert but I do read and listen to advice and use what is best for me. I try not to post too much regarding questions newbies ask and usually let a more seasoned forum member come to the rescue. Not that i am afraid to answer but I like to see how moderators and more senior members answer the questions. I must say that most are handled in an excellent way and the info is always pretty accurate and interesting to read! I think most new forum members appreciate the answer coming from a more senior member, I know I would. That being said I also appreciate the help provided by less senior members but you really have to be careful and cross reference advice with printed material & practical experience of more senior members. What works for 1 person may be chewed up and spit out as garbage by another; but if it work; it works! Hell I used 55 gallon aquariums with moving water and soil substrate back in the 90's and screened cage's beside it with multiple pairs and never had any issues with Jacksons. It all comes down to husbandry practices (period). Most people do not realize the commitment involved using glass and moving water in regards to Chams. You have to be on top of your game to do this. Most people want an easy fix with no work involved and this will not work just read Chris Anderson's post on using glass enclosures!!! This has changed a lot of memebers opinion regarding this once no-no practice. Although privatly me and other keepers knew it was not a problem but never challenged the issue on this forum, its just best to not open a can of worms with no title behind our name.
back in the 90's and screened cage's beside it with multiple pairs and never had any issues with Jacksons. It all comes down to husbandry practices (period). Most people do not realize the commitment involved using glass and moving water in regards to Chams. You have to be on top of your game to do this. Most people want an easy fix with no work involved and this will not work just read Chris Anderson's post on using glass enclosures!!! This has changed a lot of memebers opinion regarding this once no-no practice. Although privatly me and other keepers knew it was not a problem but never challenged the issue on this forum, its just best to not open a can of worms with no title behind our name. 
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Not trying to get too far off topic. But what always gave me a laugh was. Ppl would say you couldnt raise chams in glass enclosures. Yet most breeders raise neonates in solid sided enclosures for the first cpl of months. These are the most fragile times of that chams life and yet they do fine in glass or plastic caging. With approp care and proper temps.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would be very happy to be "corrected" but would also ask that it be done by PM rather than by public flaying. Even though no one can see my blushing I would still feel a bit defensive. PMs have their uses.
