Where did you get Iroh from?
Even though he is not showing major symptoms having a parasite load like he has will impact his growth rate and how much weight he is able to gain.
Mouth issues?
- Thread starter IrohtheVeiled
- Start date
Even though he is not showing major symptoms having a parasite load like he has will impact his growth rate and how much weight he is able to gain.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
I’ve always thought he looks smaller than other charms a similar age. And an exotics show. The breeder didn’t give me correct info wouldn’t put it past him to have not been truthful about his health.
Yeah I am willing to bet that he came to you with it just because of the breeder at an exotics show. This honestly would explain his smaller stature. How much does he weight now and what is his total length tip of nose to end of tail? He is like 10 months?
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
Weighed in at 133 at the vet
I don’t have an exact measurement but I’d say probably 13 inches give or take 1
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
Recently there has been consistent weight gain. I started weighing him regularly about a month ago.
So both of these are really good. Which is why treating now while he is healthy is your best bet.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
I already followed up w the vet via email if I don’t hear back today I’m gonna call him tomorrow.
I was skeptical of his recommended approach since it would basically have meant taking apart an entire enclosure to rebuild a new one which would get infected with the current parasite load.
Like I said he was saying his concern is impacting the other microflora he has. I’d hate to have him miss out on growth at an important window and have it be a long term impact on his development though.
Kicking myself for not taking him in before I rehoused him. I threw out all his old stuff he could’ve moved into his bigger cage parasite free if I was more forward thinking and he did have them from when I got him.
I was skeptical of his recommended approach since it would basically have meant taking apart an entire enclosure to rebuild a new one which would get infected with the current parasite load.
Like I said he was saying his concern is impacting the other microflora he has. I’d hate to have him miss out on growth at an important window and have it be a long term impact on his development though.
Kicking myself for not taking him in before I rehoused him. I threw out all his old stuff he could’ve moved into his bigger cage parasite free if I was more forward thinking and he did have them from when I got him.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
The doctor got back to me he’s open to do a quarantine treatment, the drug recommend was pronazuril not sure if I spelt it correctly.
I gotta set up a quarantine cage for him now.
When you say bare- how many branches are we talking about? Minimal?
I gotta set up a quarantine cage for him now.
When you say bare- how many branches are we talking about? Minimal?
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IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
The vet is sending the oral meds for Iroh to a pet pharmacy for me to pick up
I think I’m going to plan on starting this regimen on 6-30 as I’ll be out of town 06-29 for a wedding and I can’t monitor him when I’m gone.
Is this too long of a timeframe to wait? I figure I need time to figure out what I’m doing for his quarantine cage as I want to make sure I get this right the 1st time
I think I’m going to plan on starting this regimen on 6-30 as I’ll be out of town 06-29 for a wedding and I can’t monitor him when I’m gone.
Is this too long of a timeframe to wait? I figure I need time to figure out what I’m doing for his quarantine cage as I want to make sure I get this right the 1st time
Bare meaning minimal. A few to get around and some at the right basking level.
What is he doing the frequency at for the meds? Sometimes they seem to do a few doses and then space out the rest which is why I am asking.
Time frame is going to depend on when you can get a quarantine cage set up and what the doc is wanting for frequency of dosing.
I would recommend a separate cheaper cage like a zoo med. Then all of your heavy cleaning is done to the real set up so it gives you time to strip it and fully clean then to get it all set up again once he passes 3 clean fecals. Normally these are done over a 6-8 week period. They need to all come back clean. Parasites shed their oocysts in cycles so you can get a false negative due to this. Which is why you want to do so many over a certain time period to ensure nothing comes back positive.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
He hasn’t written the script yet so I’m sure when that happens I’ll know what dosing he’s going to do.
And his current cage is a reptibreeze - I was half thinking about upgrading to a nicer one because of this and just start fresh but I’m assuming having a sterile quarantine cage is a good bet. Do people sometimes go down in size for the interim period since the cage is kept bare anyways?
GrannyK
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ugh sorry you are dealing with this! It’s awful!!! Even a moderate load. My guy stopped eating completely for a bit but his medicine was different. I went through several cleanings
This helped me immensely,
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/cage-cleaning-•-sanitation-istyt-part-4-disinfection.2406/
I replaced all plants and most sticks in the end. But the cage I did not want to start over so I cleaned good.
I know some can live with it depending the stage of the load and other variables with coccidia (very rarely I do not want to downgrade this parasite, it can be deadly) my guy had no symptoms at all, was found through a fecal but I did not want to take the risk at all. I disinfected the entire enclosure day 2 of meds, day 10 (last day of meds) and at 2 weeks post meds when I replaced branches and plants . It was not fun and probably overboard but it’s a nasty parasite and I was not going to have problems in the future if I could avoid it.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
Yeah the doc said he could live with it with how he’s presenting but I don’t want to wait until he gets worse.
I’m definitely going to do what @Beman said and make the quarantine cage a fresh cage. I’m starting to think I might take the chance to upgrade him into a better cage when he’s parasite free too. I got a reptibreeze with a hole in one of the sides that I patched up with hot glue so I don’t see much point in trying to save it beyond the financial aspect.
Now the real question is do I go with a hybrid cage for when he’s parasite free. I might do so just because he likes to screen climb, and it’d give me an option to go bioactive eventually when I’m a little more comfortable with taking care of him.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
If I had 600 bucks burning a hole in my pocket I’d move him into this kit
https://dragonstrand.com/product/tall-hybrid-chameleon-cage-system/
https://dragonstrand.com/product/tall-hybrid-chameleon-cage-system/
GrannyK
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes agree do what beman recommend with the quarantine cage. As for going hybrid, it’s a great idea as long as you can maintain temp and humidity where you live. And bio is nice too! I was afraid to do a full on 24x 48 so I started with a glass terrarium 18x 18x 24 lol . 2 weeks in and it’s doing ok!
Good luck with all that’s going on.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
I’m keeping my options open, it gets dry here in the winters so if I’m gonna swap out the cage and not try to salvage his current one that’s why I was thinking hybrid.Yes agree do what beman recommend with the quarantine cage. As for going hybrid, it’s a great idea as long as you can maintain temp and humidity where you live. And bio is nice too! I was afraid to do a full on 24x 48 so I started with a glass terrarium 18x 18x 24 lol . 2 weeks in and it’s doing ok!
Good luck with all that’s going on.
Thank you though. He’ll be okay. I think (hope) he’s in good hands
CalamityCrow
Avid Member
I have the dragon strand hybrid cage (I'm in New Mexico where it's HELLA DRY) and I love it. It's kept my humidity where it's supposed to be, and that's without a fan on top and a couple short misting sessions during the day to keep my humidity right. I also had it when I lived in Ohio, and a computer fan to pull air through was perfect to keep humidity where I needed it. If you have the money, it's an EXCELLENT enclosure.
Also good luck - you're doing the right thing leaning into curing the parasite load while he's very healthy.
As for your question about sourcing feeders locally - I personally am paranoid about it (that's how I think my guy got coccidia when he was a tiny baby), and now only get feeders online. Depending on the pet shop, especially if they sell reptiles, they'll mass feed from their feeder stock, and if an animal doesn't eat it, they can go back into the feeder stock. Beardies, for example, carry parasites that aren't a big deal to them but can be horrid for a cham. Just because I don't know what's done with those feeders in the shop, I trust them FAR less than a place like dubia.com or josh's frogs or rainbowmealworms because those websites breed specifically for feeders and (supposedly, I haven't actually seen any of them lol) keep their breeding facilities clean and sanitary to prevent parasite issues.
Also good luck - you're doing the right thing leaning into curing the parasite load while he's very healthy.
As for your question about sourcing feeders locally - I personally am paranoid about it (that's how I think my guy got coccidia when he was a tiny baby), and now only get feeders online. Depending on the pet shop, especially if they sell reptiles, they'll mass feed from their feeder stock, and if an animal doesn't eat it, they can go back into the feeder stock. Beardies, for example, carry parasites that aren't a big deal to them but can be horrid for a cham. Just because I don't know what's done with those feeders in the shop, I trust them FAR less than a place like dubia.com or josh's frogs or rainbowmealworms because those websites breed specifically for feeders and (supposedly, I haven't actually seen any of them lol) keep their breeding facilities clean and sanitary to prevent parasite issues.
janjan20
Chameleon Enthusiast
Looks like you already have a game plan and have received great info from @Beman.
I have had 2 chams now that have gone through treatment with ponazuril and have done well. One has been clear for the past 5 yrs and the other has had 2 clear fecals since treatment back in March. I would suggest looking for another source of feeder besides store bought. I have had to deal with giardia as well from store bought bsfl.
I have had 2 chams now that have gone through treatment with ponazuril and have done well. One has been clear for the past 5 yrs and the other has had 2 clear fecals since treatment back in March. I would suggest looking for another source of feeder besides store bought. I have had to deal with giardia as well from store bought bsfl.
IrohtheVeiled
Established Member
Yeah I think I know the basic approach I have to take. Just have to figure out the logistics of his temporary home. I’m assuming the quarantine cage should still be 2x2x4? And I should sanitize the dragon ledges with peroxide vol 40?
Yeah I’m suspicious of that store they sell a lot of bearded dragons. You think a cb reptile shop would be a bit better in that regard with being careful, but here we are. If I knew for certain Iroh didn’t have it when I got him, I’d probably have a talk with them about it and why they lost my business. But I can’t say for certain and I don’t necessarily want to burn bridges with the only cb shop in my area. But they gave me terrible advice all around from enclosure size to lighting to substrate
This quarantine will actually give me time to put a lot of thought into his permanent cage. I got a friend who does cabinet carpentry and he’s very into the idea of helping me put something really cool together for him. Have to do research into the materials but he said it’d be no problem to make me something with mesh sides a solid back and a wooden frame.
Steve A
Chameleon Enthusiast
***EDIT: Looks like I was late to this party, so disregard lol. However, I would like to leave my story up so people can have an idea of the possibilities of a bad vet experience with chameleons.***
All I see is a dragon. And as others have cautioned already: Be WARY of what the vet says. If they aren't able to truly identify what you're seeing (I am personally not seeing anything) then I wouldn't do anything unless you see SIGNS of your chameleon in distress.
While it's always best to be ahead of it..... I feel like so many vets have no idea what to do with a chameleon. I took my veiled to a vet because I KNEW she was sick. I gave the vet all the symptoms, behavior.
He told me to put a bowl of water in the enclosure for her to drink and to add substrate at the bottom because "they like to walk around on the floor of the enclosure". He also said she looks great, there are no issues, she is just a little dehydrated BECAUSE I was only misting (and fogging!) and not giving her a bowl of water.
7 days later my female veiled passed away. 7 days later after being ignored by a veterinary professional of the symptoms I was worried about and being told my chameleon is perfectly fine.
Oh and...... another thing that really threw me off was the fact he told me "I had a few chameleons myself in the past. They're very difficult. I could never keep the buggers alive for more than a few weeks or so."
He literally said that to me. A vet said that. So ..... just be careful. I was smart enough to not listen to anything he said, but my point is just because they are a vet does not mean you should just simply take their advice. I hope your vet experience is far better than mine (my vet for my dogs are AMAZING, but they do not accept reptiles). Pay attention to what they say and make a determination for yourself if this vet seems to be knowledgeable about chameleons or not.
All I see is a dragon. And as others have cautioned already: Be WARY of what the vet says. If they aren't able to truly identify what you're seeing (I am personally not seeing anything) then I wouldn't do anything unless you see SIGNS of your chameleon in distress.
While it's always best to be ahead of it..... I feel like so many vets have no idea what to do with a chameleon. I took my veiled to a vet because I KNEW she was sick. I gave the vet all the symptoms, behavior.
He told me to put a bowl of water in the enclosure for her to drink and to add substrate at the bottom because "they like to walk around on the floor of the enclosure". He also said she looks great, there are no issues, she is just a little dehydrated BECAUSE I was only misting (and fogging!) and not giving her a bowl of water.
7 days later my female veiled passed away. 7 days later after being ignored by a veterinary professional of the symptoms I was worried about and being told my chameleon is perfectly fine.
Oh and...... another thing that really threw me off was the fact he told me "I had a few chameleons myself in the past. They're very difficult. I could never keep the buggers alive for more than a few weeks or so."
He literally said that to me. A vet said that. So ..... just be careful. I was smart enough to not listen to anything he said, but my point is just because they are a vet does not mean you should just simply take their advice. I hope your vet experience is far better than mine (my vet for my dogs are AMAZING, but they do not accept reptiles). Pay attention to what they say and make a determination for yourself if this vet seems to be knowledgeable about chameleons or not.
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