My Dubias keep dying!!!

[FFSTRescue]

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong! I find about 3-5 dead every day! I have them in a large bin, have a heating pad under half of the container that gets between 85-95, and I feed them fresh fruit and vegetables. I clean up areas where moisture from the fruit causes dampness. So what am I doing wrong?
It is mostly adults that I find dying, but occasionally it is young ones. I probably only find 5 younger ones dead per week, but the adults are what I find dead all the time.
What really makes me angry is that I ordered them from a pretty well-known seller that offers pretty good prices, and I was able to order 100 adult females for about $65, and a mix of 50 male/females for a pretty high price, and I placed several of those orders spending hundreds, and I asked them if these were all old and ready to die soon because I was going to use them for breeding, not food, and he said no, so I bought them. Well, obviously they were old because several were dead when they arrived, and since I purchased them about two to three months ago, I'd say about 3/4 of them are already dead.
Given that there are so few young roaches that die and such a large number of adults that die, could it be that they sold off their old roaches? The temps, humidity, and food are ideal, so I can't think of what else it could be. Very frustrating and unethical and I am not going to buy from them again if that is the case.
Also, I have noticed that some of the females have what looks like a sac hanging from their back end, has anyone seen this before? It almost looks like a prolapse of some kind, and they all die shortly after I see this.

 

[BrokenTail]

Yeah I ran into the same problem before. I don't even buy adult anymore. I don't blame the breeder for it, they have so much it's hard to keep track of how old each group are. I only buy large nymph that way am sure I'll have them over a year or more. Kind of expensive but worth it. And the sac your talking about that hanging out, it's orange right ? I think that's a sign after mating or just poop.

 

[FFSTRescue]

That's a good idea, I'll just stick with young dubias. Don't they live for a couple years though? I just think it is odd that they almost all die after a couple months.
The sac is actually clear/semi-transparent, and looks like a balloon. It is about the size of a dime, and it is attached and can't be removed.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

They have to be old roaches based on the info your giving about how you keep them. Ive prob only lost 5-10 at most since I started my colony almost 9 months ago. I dont blame you I'd be ticked off.

 

[dodolah]

are you sure they are dying? Dubia's slough off their skin and their sloughed skin is usually almost intact making the skin looked like a dead roach. The old dubias probably the one that is dying. but, the small ones most likely just sloughing off their skin. Usually, the colony would eat the sloughed off skin as well.
If you see major depletion in # of your roaches, then I would be concern. But, if it looked like they maintained their numbers, then I wouldn't worry.

As far as the odd thing protruding like a prolapse, that is just the female drying their oothecas. It's a good sign.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blatica-dubia-26807/

At one time, I have one plastic cup of dubia from a friend that I stuffed in one of the drawers in my garage. and I forgot about them completely for one month
No food, no water, just egg cartons.. and to my surprise those bugs still alive and there is only minor fatality.

Honestly, i think it is actually harder killing them off then taking care of them. After all, they are roaches. That is one of the reason also what makes them more ideal than crickets.

 

[FFSTRescue]

Thanks for the link, it was really helpful. Is the ootheca the same as the egg-stick/egg-sack? I have found 4 egg sticks laying on the bottom of the cage within a month, I had no idea what it was, I wonder why so many of them keep losing theirs.
Also, what I have seen protruding from their rear end is what looks like a transparent balloon, almost like a prolapsed uterus, not what they referred to in the other thread as the egg stick. I'll post a pic when I see one again. All of them that have this protruding end up dying.
I know what the sloughed skin looks like, and that is not what I am finding. I am actually finding dead roaches that stink if you don't take them out right away.
I am so sick of these roaches. Their container got knocked over, they all escaped, but then I spent the next week trying to catch them, and I got several back (they started dying off before that incident so they didn't get into something while they were out). Now I am finding dead ones (mainly adults) in the container as well as dead ones all over my garage.

 

[jamncristian]

if you dont mind me asking,
how humid are you keeping them??

 

[FFSTRescue]

if you dont mind me asking,
how humid are you keeping them??

at about 80%

 

[reptoman]

It sounds almost like your colony has some kind of infection or something. I can say pretty much the same as Texas Panther Man, that I have had maybe 5 total die over the last 7 -8 months and they have all been males. There were no dead ones when they arrived either. How big is the tub you are keeping them in and how many egg crates do you have in there for them?

 

[FFSTRescue]

Its a large tub, I don't know how many gallons, but it is like 4ft long x 1.5ft wide x 2 ft tall and I have many egg crates in there, more than they need, and since the population keeps getting smaller because so many are dying off, then they have more room. My set-up is fine, I don't think that's the problem, I think I got a bad batch carrying a pathogen, because I had a colony going for several months with no deaths, then I threw a couple hundred adults in there, then they started dying after that. It was only from this one supplier that I have had problems. I just want to know if anyone else has experienced this with the same symptoms I have seen, such as the uterine prolapse, if that is in fact what it is.

It tends to mainly be females that die, and since I purchased so many females in bulk, that's what makes me think they were old and done reproducing, because so many have lost their egg stick, and are having these prolapses. I can't help but think they knew this if in fact that is the case.

 

[elrojo]

Too weird. I have tried to raise dubias at least a half dozen times and also had die-offs -too many to even sustain a small collection of insectivores. If I were to try it again, I'd like to buy some from folks like Dodolah and Texas/ Reptoman. Perhaps there is/was a pathogen?


Edit: Typed the OP rather than folks who seldom lose a roach.

 

[dodolah]

Too weird. I have tried to raise dubias at least a half dozen times and also had die-offs -too many to even sustain a small collection of insectivores. If I were to try it again, I'd like to buy some from folks like Dodolah and FFST. Perhaps there is/was a pathogen?

I wished I could help more in figuring out your case and FFST..
It does sounds like you and FFST have some kind of pathogen problem. But, my guess is as good as yours since i never encounter massive die out with my dubias.. Crickets, on the other hands,

 

[FFSTRescue]

I have about had it with feeders! With my crickets, I have found that the older they are, the greater the number of die-offs.
So with these roaches, it just seems like the deaths are too close together to be from old age, you think it would be spaced out more if that was the case. Either way, I agree, I would rather buy from someone more reputable, like the people on these forums.

I think I am going to ditch these roaches and start over.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

Did anyone already mention residential pesticide residue as a possibility ? I'd expect that you'd have a much bigger die-off but it's something to keep in mind if anyone has a much bigger problem.

 

[kiltheduck]

In my preparations for getting my first chameleon, I'm considering food sources. I only plan to have one chameleon . . . at least at first. Is it practical to breed your own feeders for only one chameleon? I'm not really excited about dealing with crickets given their smell and noise. The roaches sound like a much better option . . . at least until my wife finds out. I read a thread earlier where people spoke if having roach colonies of 6-8 THOUSAND!!! Seriously? Are they feeding an army of chameleons? Is that practical for a single owner? The other side of this is that I don't want to have to make a trip to the pet store every day or two either. It is my understanding that chameleons eat every day, so I need to figure out my plans for feeding before I buy anything. For some reason I had figured they would eat a handful of insects every few days, but I had based that assumption on nothing.

 

[fluxlizard]

I usually have around a dozen 50 gallon storage tubs of roaches going, give or take a few tubs and depending on the time of year. I've been going like this for years.

From time to time I have a fair number die off in the weeks following a transfer from one tub to another. I never thought much about it other than many must not take the transfer very well.

I would say, don't give up. If the experience is anything like mine, the die-offs eventually will taper off and your females will start producing and your colony will start growing.

I would also advise you not to spend too much time checking on them and "mothering" them along. The broken off egg casings usually happens only when they are startled or moved and is not normal. I spend very very little time messing about with mine except to collect them for feeding and dropping food in. If you don't have central air, you might not want to mess with humidity much- they can control their own humidity, according to studies, by bunching up in small spaces and breathing. I just make sure they have fresh veggies or fruit or table scraps and they can eat this and breath on each other and control their own humidity- tubs are bare bottom and for dubias I pile them full of toilet paper tubes. I don't heat mine either, though that would depend on how many you want and how warm your ambient temp is. Mine go down to 50 nights winter sometimes and 60 some days winter and 90+ days occasionally spring and fall. They produce year round, but production of course is much higher in summer. Winter production is probably due to matings when the temps are warmer. If you can keep them somewhere in the 80s most of the time, you will probably have oodles before long.

If all else fails- just try patience and keeping up on the feeding and "wet" feeding and don't mess with them too much. Let them settle in for 6 months or so before you really get in and start messing with them. If they all die out, I guess I was wrong about the problem, but probably they won't and they will start producing for you.

roach colonies of 6-8 THOUSAND!!! Seriously? Are they feeding an army of chameleons? Is that practical for a single owner?

Well, you could easily do this in a single storage tub. Very good maintenance would be less than 20 minutes per week I would think. But there is no rule that says you have to have this many. Just keep feeding off more of your adults so you have fewer breeders producing at any given time.

 

[FFSTRescue]

Thanks for the info!

 

[FFSTRescue]

Picture

I finally got a picture posted like I said I would a while back. This is what I keep finding on the females, the "sac" has gotten darker since she died, but before they die, it is lighter in color and more transparent...

 

[FFSTRescue]

Anyone seen this before or have a theory?
I also have an unrelated question... how do I post an image without having to attach it so it is large without people having to click on it to enlarge it?

 

[laurie]

I will admit I don't spend time studying my roaches but I don't think I have ever seen a sac like that on a roach. Did this happen with the ones I sent you also? I don't have a die off problem. Maybe one roach every few weeks.