My Meller likes to sleep!

[adam1v]

I bought a pair of mellers about a month ago from what I thought was a respectable seller, but the more I think about it the more I think that wasnt the case, anyway more fool me...

The male and female appear to be parasite free, stress free, both eating (alot) and drinking and appear to be happy (so im happy).

One of my mellers (the male) just seems to spend most of his daytime sleeping, where as the female is always awake.

Does anyone think this is just a difference in character, or do you think theres a high chance they were imported and the male hasnt properly climatised yet?
He appears to sleep during the night also.
My daytime lights are 7am to 7pm.

He's also quite a heavy sleeper, its quite amausing what it takes to wake him up!

 

[skeeta]

Daytime sleeping is BAD NEWS.

Fill out the following and some of the seniors might have a quick suggestion or possible solution:

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Pictures are helpful

 

[hawaiianice99]

FYI- a cham sleeping in the daytime is not a good sign.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Also it takes more than one fecal to be sure they are parasite free. If you bought your pair as adults they are more than likely wc and have parasites. Many parasites go through cycles so one fecal test doesn't always pick them up. Anyways, it could be a number of things. Answer skeeta's q's to help us get a better feel what could possibly be causing him to not feel so great.

-chris

 

[adam1v]

eeek, I didnt realise it was that bad.
I will try to answer the points below, but I will take some good clear photos tomorrow after work (im in UK).

Cage: flexarium (reptarium in the US?), mesh all four sides. dims 2.5ft x 1.5ft x 4ft
Lighting: repti-glo 100w basking bulb and repti-glo 3ft tube. both on 7am to 7pm3
Temps: daytime 80f around the top area of the tank, 85-90 under the basking light. both chams spend most their time about half way up the cage, and occasionally basking under the light for periods of time.
night time is approx 70f.
Humidity: humidity varying between 40-60% being sprayed about 3 times a day by hand. a dripper is also installed in the tank. Ive also seen both drinking from it.
plants: I have 3 hisbiscous, I will confirm their types tomorrow.
The cage is kept in a spare bedroom, there is nothing to disturb them except me. no pets and no kids.

meller chameleon. male and the age could not be confirmed. they are both out of the black stripe age and the male is approx 5-6" in body length. I've owned them just a few weeks, maybe 3/4.
I've handled both of them around 2/3 times a week. the female seems to get annoyed the most (showing black colours upon picking her up) but then settles down. the male doesnt seem to care about me handling him at all. hes very tame.
feeding: a mixture of giant millworms and locust (with the spikey legs removed), maybe 10-15 locust between them a day, a few in the morning and a few in the late afternoon.
suppliments: im currently using Zoo med reptivite calcium. not a great deal, maybe dusting locust about twice a week, but not too much.

watering: they are sprated twice a day and they have access to a 24/7 dripper. I;ve also observed them both drinking from it regularly.
fecal: I guess an average amount of slightly runny (not liquid, but just gooey) stools. a slightly dark brown colour.
I've not had them tested for paracites.

The current problem is that the male is asleep during the day. He is normally asleep during the evening (That ive noticed), although ive came down to type this now (its almost midnight in the uk) and hes actually awake to my surprise.
I'll attach a couple more pics in another post..

 

[adam1v]

more photos.

first pic on the left is of the female.
One thing to also bare in mind, the UK temps are very different, the bedroom is not basking hot or really humidy, hense I do mist as often as most of the owners in the US.
I do have a mist on order from mistking.

 

[summoner12]

I would turn that cage on its side to give them more room to spread out. Melleri like to have lots of horizontal perches. You should also provide a visual barrier. Something they can walk behind to seperate from one another. A towel hanging down splitting the cage in two. The towel doesn't nede to block the entire cage, just enough so each can have some privacy but enough so they can move around freely. I would lower the wattage on the basking lamp. I would also provide two lamps, one on each end of the cage. I would see if you could get the ambient temp down to 77ish. I would also mist more often. Mellers need lots of humidity and moisture on and around them. You should look into getting a Herpmist, it will be worth it for these guys.

Get them tested for parasites ASAP. Check out Melleri Discovery if you havn't already.

Lots of info in the Melleri Sub forum.

 

[chamlover]

If the UK is anything like the US, they are w/c and WILL have parasites. Their poop really shouldn't be that runny either. A clue that they do have parasites. I just rescued a melleri and had him tested and he came back negative for parasites, however, i know that isn't correct, because he is w/c and his poop is runny and stinks to high heaven. I'm having his checked again in the next few days. Also, you really either need to put them in seperate cages or get a much bigger cage. They need alot more room than what you have them in. That isn't even big enough for 1. Don't take this the wrong way, i'm not saying it to be nasty, just letting you know. These guys are BIG and need alot of room to roam. A 2 x 2 x 4 cage is what an adult panther should be in and they are about 1/5 the size of these guys. Did you say you ordered another cage? I hope it is a bigger one.

No cham should sleep during the day and these guys LOVE to be misted. Do you have like a Home Depot over there? If they do go into the garden section and get one of the big misters. I mist mine for about 1/2 hour, they love it.

Good luck,
Debby

 

[sipos624]

I have one question how did you sex your mellers because you cant sex them visually. Did you get an X-ray etc..? I would like to know the process if in the future i would get that done.

 

[adam1v]

thanks for the replies.
I did not sex the chams myself, instead trusted the information given to me by the supplier.
I made the night time temp slightly lower last night (by about 7/8 degrees).
I've just come in this morning to find the male out from his perch in the middle where he slept when i left him last night to right at the top of the tank under his basking lamp ready for it to be turned on.
I will definatly consider getting a new cage, I will shop around this weekend to see what is available. I knew the current cage wouldnt last long but I thought it would atleast do for a short period of time (i had this laying around in the cupboard).

Also, as mentioned I have a mistking on the way, when this arrives I plan to setup 3x1 minute mists during the day plus leave the dripper on.

 

[summoner12]

thanks for the replies.
I did not sex the chams myself, instead trusted the information given to me by the supplier.
I made the night time temp slightly lower last night (by about 7/8 degrees).
I've just come in this morning to find the male out from his perch in the middle where he slept when i left him last night to right at the top of the tank under his basking lamp ready for it to be turned on.
I will definatly consider getting a new cage, I will shop around this weekend to see what is available. I knew the current cage wouldnt last long but I thought it would atleast do for a short period of time (i had this laying around in the cupboard).

Also, as mentioned I have a mistking on the way, when this arrives I plan to setup 3x1 minute mists during the day plus leave the dripper on.

Try three 10 minute mistings. I wouldn't do anything less than 5 minutes. They need water. it is GOOD for them. if you don' thave a drainage setup.... set one up
good luck!

 

[adam1v]

thanks summoner. Im hoping the mistking will be here by the end of the week, but international delivery always takes a bit longer
I have a drainage system setup ready. I also have a pond heater to try and warm the water for the mister as much as possible. It should be an interesting setup when its complete

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Definitely read the melleridiscovery website, it has the best information in acclimating WC melleri.
If it were me, I would separate the two at least until they are fully recovered. You don't want that sick one to have to compete for food, water or a basking spot.

Melleri are pretty sensitive to oversupplementation. Reptivite is ok, but use it only as a vitamin supplement: no more then once a month, otherwise they're getting too much vit A and not enough vit D. For calcium get repcal with and without vit D3.

During acclimation you want to keep stress to an absolute minimum so instead of handling the chams, just interact with them in their cage by handfeeding them from time to time.
Melleri like to do things on their terms and being removed from their cage against their wishes is very stressful for them. The only reason that the sick one doesn't get annoyed is because he probably doesn't have the energy for it.
In my experience you won't gain a chameleons trust by holding it.

And finally, assume you have 2 unsexed subadult melleri. Melleri are unsexable until they are adults and even then it's very tricky.

And good luck with your two new gentle giants!

-Suzanne

 

[adam1v]

right a quick update.
Having observed my cham during the day at the weekend (Im not able to observe during office hours), he has infact been awake all day so far, It would seem that he must sleep just before I get back from work 5.15pm, but the other female does not.

I've just cleaned them out, so obviously he's awake and probably will be for sometime, but I will keep a close eye on them tomorrow without disturbing them.

I've been told by my 'supplier' that these we're actually imported from germany (slightly concerning) and anything other than that he does not know, this is not what he told before I bought them, what a jerk.

I've noticed there are a few dropping of white feces, but I could not find anything out about this anywhere.
From the outside I would suggest im over dusting the locust, but im doing this about once a fortnight, and not alot at that.

I have the male booked in for a consultation in two days time. I want to get him checked for paracites just in case.

As i type this now at 1pm in the afternoon they are both basking on the top perches wide awake and looking happy as larry. Am i over reacting slightly? After reading another similar thread, luckykarma mentioned her chams are always asleep at 6pm, which isnt a great deal later that 5.15 when im returning home.

Anyone have any other comments?

 

[Kat77]

right a quick update.
Having observed my cham during the day at the weekend (Im not able to observe during office hours), he has infact been awake all day so far, It would seem that he must sleep just before I get back from work 5.15pm, but the other female does not.

I've just cleaned them out, so obviously he's awake and probably will be for sometime, but I will keep a close eye on them tomorrow without disturbing them.

I've been told by my 'supplier' that these we're actually imported from germany (slightly concerning) and anything other than that he does not know, this is not what he told before I bought them, what a jerk.

I've noticed there are a few dropping of white feces, but I could not find anything out about this anywhere.
From the outside I would suggest im over dusting the locust, but im doing this about once a fortnight, and not alot at that.

I have the male booked in for a consultation in two days time. I want to get him checked for paracites just in case.

As i type this now at 1pm in the afternoon they are both basking on the top perches wide awake and looking happy as larry. Am i over reacting slightly? After reading another similar thread, luckykarma mentioned her chams are always asleep at 6pm, which isnt a great deal later that 5.15 when im returning home.

Anyone have any other comments?

That poo looks like extreme dehydration to me. How much and how often did you say you're misting? Also did you get them bigger and separate cages yet? That cage is teeny for ONE Meller's.

 

[jannb]

I agree with kat77...it looks like dehydration to me.

 

[adam1v]

they are misted twice a day by hand (until my mistking arrives any day) and have a dripper on perminantly.

Im not sure I think the cage is too small yet, espically for their size, although im sure they will outgrow it very quickly.

 

[summoner12]

Melleri needs lots of water.... Mist those guys at least 4 times for 5 minutes a day. My baby gets 4 8 minute mistings. I was doing 4 3 minute mistings but I didn't think my other chams were getting enough water so I figured since melleri like water... he can get a few extra minutes of water every three hours.

 

[adam1v]

unfortunatly, that isnt an option for me at the moment, although i was expecting my mistking last week

 

[Kat77]

You really need to get them showered then. They need a nice long shower so they can absorb water through their skin and rehydrate. 2 times a day for misting isn't enough for Meller's. Even healthy Melleri need to be showered and yours, sadly, aren't healthy I don't think.

How long are you misting during your two mistings per day?

Check out www.melleridiscovery.com That site will really help you make the best choices for your chameleons, and give you some really important information.