My New Nosy Girl! Eye Issues!
- Thread starter SoCaliSon
- Start date
-
- Tags
- eyes closed female panther
Kent67
Retired Moderator
Good to hear. I had a male with a club foot fall and rupture his eye, which ended up looking similar to your pics. Since she can see I would now guess the eyelid is out of place. Hopefully the vitamin A will make a difference, but for now, I would recommend swinging by Rite-Aid for some Bausch and Laumb's Sterile Eye Wash. It will help clean and soothe the irritated eye(s) until you decide what to do vet-wise.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Thanks Kent, I appreciate your input... I will pick up some eyewash on my way home for sure. Is there a way I could look closely to see if it is her eyelid out of place? What would I see if this was the case? How does this happen...Just rubbing?
Kent67
Retired Moderator
Well, I don't want to speculate too much because based on the pics I would have assumed she wasn't able to see anything out of that right eye because the lid doesn't seem to be out of place, just abraded. Not real sure what could be done other than correcting whatever is causing the eye to be irritated in the first place and see what happens. Obviously you want to avoid the irritation/infection/whatever getting any worse so I'd try to be as proactive as possible, even if it was decided the vet isn't necessary yet.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Proactive is the name of the game. I really want to get her into a good vet asap...I just don't want to waste my money on a Vet that knows diddly about Chams. I figure I can take whatever action possible to help her while I try to find a trustworthy vet. I feel like an HR Specialist conducting a job interview when I talk to vets... I probe them with Q's from the simplest stupidest questions... to Questions about animals they have treated.. and in some cases I even ask for references of other Chameleon keepers they have worked with (they are not very open with that sometimes). Playing 20 questions with a Vet is something I recommend anyone to do ... prior to allowing them give you advice or treat your animals. We have all heard the horror stories of Chams put on all types of the wrong Meds before the simple problem is finally determined. Anyway... I may end up going out to Doctor Greek one of these days. I am going to try to give him a call today. Thanks again.
~Joe
Kent: Kudos on your Quote... RIP George Carlin... We will miss that guy... I love his bit on the 10 commandments... It was on the 5 o'clock funnies on KLOS last week.
~Joe
Kent: Kudos on your Quote... RIP George Carlin... We will miss that guy... I love his bit on the 10 commandments... It was on the 5 o'clock funnies on KLOS last week.
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Good advice on the eye wash.
For those who might consider it, house brands work fine as well. Usuallly a 4oz bottle price $4-7. Be sure to buy eye wash, and not anything having to do with contact lenses, contact lens cleaner, etc, as the section where hte product is found in any drug store is usually 90% contact lens product, and that is not what you want.
All of these bottle are designed to work as a squirt bottle, producing a jet flow if squeezed hard. Hold the animal upside down, so that there is no excessive run-off into the mouth, and at a distance of approximately 2 inchss from the eye, you want to jet it into the eye opening, causing the eye to balloon-up. Once it balloons up, stop spraying, and it will drain rather quickly.
This is the only vet approved means of eye washing I have ever been shown, first by Scott Stahl many years ago, and by others since. While a good rain or mist may cause water to get into a chameleons eye, it is NOT the means by which they keep their eyes clean, and in fact can introduce foreign substances into the eye. That they may rub and wipe after a good shower is only their attempt to get water etc out, but again, is not how they clean their eyes, no more than you or I hose or rain out our eyes daily. This water jet method recommended here is a means of addressing an irritated eye. It is not a cure, unless one were trying to dislodge foreign particles from the eye, clean a wound, etc. In this instance, it provides only temporary relief, treating a symptom. Good luck Joe.
For those who might consider it, house brands work fine as well. Usuallly a 4oz bottle price $4-7. Be sure to buy eye wash, and not anything having to do with contact lenses, contact lens cleaner, etc, as the section where hte product is found in any drug store is usually 90% contact lens product, and that is not what you want.
All of these bottle are designed to work as a squirt bottle, producing a jet flow if squeezed hard. Hold the animal upside down, so that there is no excessive run-off into the mouth, and at a distance of approximately 2 inchss from the eye, you want to jet it into the eye opening, causing the eye to balloon-up. Once it balloons up, stop spraying, and it will drain rather quickly.
This is the only vet approved means of eye washing I have ever been shown, first by Scott Stahl many years ago, and by others since. While a good rain or mist may cause water to get into a chameleons eye, it is NOT the means by which they keep their eyes clean, and in fact can introduce foreign substances into the eye. That they may rub and wipe after a good shower is only their attempt to get water etc out, but again, is not how they clean their eyes, no more than you or I hose or rain out our eyes daily. This water jet method recommended here is a means of addressing an irritated eye. It is not a cure, unless one were trying to dislodge foreign particles from the eye, clean a wound, etc. In this instance, it provides only temporary relief, treating a symptom. Good luck Joe.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Great... Thanks Jim...
Okay... I sent Dr. Greek an Email(gave him all the pics and info ... and I am also waiting for a call back from like 3 other vets. I keep getting "We are certified to deal with Exotics, but we are no specialists."
Whatever the hell that means. I am going ahead with the rinse and Vit A... But I am hoping I hear back from Doc Greek to see if he can recommend someone a little closer... or maybe just get me an appointment set up, I will just make the drive if this doesn't start making real improvement. Man... What a bummer this is.
Okay... I sent Dr. Greek an Email(gave him all the pics and info ... and I am also waiting for a call back from like 3 other vets. I keep getting "We are certified to deal with Exotics, but we are no specialists."
Whatever the hell that means. I am going ahead with the rinse and Vit A... But I am hoping I hear back from Doc Greek to see if he can recommend someone a little closer... or maybe just get me an appointment set up, I will just make the drive if this doesn't start making real improvement. Man... What a bummer this is.
Last edited:
reyesjoshuacruz
Established Member
i was told to see greek by dave, and i looked him up and sent him a couple emails, he treats chams all the time, hes your best bet joe.
Tygerr
Avid Member
That was a great tip on the eyewash Jim. Thanks for the detailed instructions.
So are you saying that the 'eye-bulging' action that is normally written off as normal cleaning behaviour for the cham, is actually a response by them due to the irritation of water getting into their eyes? That in fact, they would prefer not to get the water in their eyes, and that they can clean their eyes perfectly well without spraying them down?
Chameleon Company
Avid Member
Tygerr
There are many possible cause of "eye bulging", voluntary and otherwise. While it may occur when the animal is getting its eye wet, it also occurs when things are completely dry, often with the animal indicating some distress with the eye, rubbing it, etc. When you see a chameleon bulge and/or wipe its turret because it got water in it, its just action-reaction.
I am not a proponent of any kind of "misting", that being introduction of a fine spray, etc, to the chameleon. Never have been. If one is misting a plant to increase humidity, etc, that is different, but too much water in too many places creates more problems than it solves with many chameleons, bacteria and fungus being near the top of the list. But all in all, to be misted is not a normal part of the chameleons daily regimen. They are rained on. They are not fogged. They are not "misted" any more than you or I in a storm. If you spray water at a chameleons eye, by mister, etc, it is going to do what you or I would do. Wipe it.
Chameleons obviously benefit from an occasional good shower. While misting is certainly not evil, it was presented such that the lack of the animal getting a daily mist could cause these eye problems. That to me is bad advice. An irritated eye can benefit short term from the introduction of outside fluids, done properly. But there is a greater underlying problem that must be remedied when a chameleon has any spate of continued eye closings. What I was trying to advance was to think beyond the notion that if a chameleon is having eye problems, its just needs daily misting. Hope that answered your question. Don't ask me about waterfalls
There are many possible cause of "eye bulging", voluntary and otherwise. While it may occur when the animal is getting its eye wet, it also occurs when things are completely dry, often with the animal indicating some distress with the eye, rubbing it, etc. When you see a chameleon bulge and/or wipe its turret because it got water in it, its just action-reaction.
I am not a proponent of any kind of "misting", that being introduction of a fine spray, etc, to the chameleon. Never have been. If one is misting a plant to increase humidity, etc, that is different, but too much water in too many places creates more problems than it solves with many chameleons, bacteria and fungus being near the top of the list. But all in all, to be misted is not a normal part of the chameleons daily regimen. They are rained on. They are not fogged. They are not "misted" any more than you or I in a storm. If you spray water at a chameleons eye, by mister, etc, it is going to do what you or I would do. Wipe it.
Chameleons obviously benefit from an occasional good shower. While misting is certainly not evil, it was presented such that the lack of the animal getting a daily mist could cause these eye problems. That to me is bad advice. An irritated eye can benefit short term from the introduction of outside fluids, done properly. But there is a greater underlying problem that must be remedied when a chameleon has any spate of continued eye closings. What I was trying to advance was to think beyond the notion that if a chameleon is having eye problems, its just needs daily misting. Hope that answered your question. Don't ask me about waterfalls
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
UPDATE:
Well... Some of her crix are missing from the cup(May have escaped though) but she stopped eating worms, and I saw her drinking again last night. Her eyes still appear the same... Yesterday I gave them a rinse with saline solution... I hated having to do that, she obviously did not like it. She kept her eyes open for several minutes after the wash, bu then they closed again. I was shopping for Vit A and more questions arose that I should have thought about before,so I am yet to supp with Vit A, If I can get some Qs answered I will start this evening. What is the best I.U. level to use when treating a Cham... and what is the safest way to do this to avoid overdose. I was thinking a direct application would be the best way intead of putting it on her food, like swabbing it on her gums or something, as she eats when I am not looking and I want to positive that she is getting it. Would this be recommended? Several of you have been very helpful with this and would appreciate anymore tips you could give me to make me feel more comfortable, what has been your most successfull methods of administering VitA?
Thanks Guys,
Joe
Well... Some of her crix are missing from the cup(May have escaped though) but she stopped eating worms, and I saw her drinking again last night. Her eyes still appear the same... Yesterday I gave them a rinse with saline solution... I hated having to do that, she obviously did not like it. She kept her eyes open for several minutes after the wash, bu then they closed again. I was shopping for Vit A and more questions arose that I should have thought about before,so I am yet to supp with Vit A, If I can get some Qs answered I will start this evening. What is the best I.U. level to use when treating a Cham... and what is the safest way to do this to avoid overdose. I was thinking a direct application would be the best way intead of putting it on her food, like swabbing it on her gums or something, as she eats when I am not looking and I want to positive that she is getting it. Would this be recommended? Several of you have been very helpful with this and would appreciate anymore tips you could give me to make me feel more comfortable, what has been your most successfull methods of administering VitA?
Thanks Guys,
Joe
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Update...With good news!
Sorry it has been so long since an update... I have been pretty busy with Chams and life in general.
Well I have been giving this girl special attention ever since day 1, and I think it has paid off. First off, I just want to say thank you everyone for your help... I learned a lot tackling this hurdle and all the advice was all very helpful, My Cham and I thank you.
She is definately showing improvement! After speaking with several vets, and all of the helpful minds on this site I was able to make a difference. I have been rubbing a tiny amount of Vit A on the back of 1 superworm every three days, An extremely tiny amount, in addition to her regular Gutloaded supers and roaches. I have also been giving her plenty of Natural Sun, and extended showers, while basking. Yesterday she started a nice shed, and completed it by the end of the day. Ever since her shed her eyes have been open and alert each time I checked. I am going to continue this regiment.. and give her another several months of close watch and care before I breed her. Wouldn't be smart to breed her right now, not just because of her condition, but as I am looking at having upwards of 100 hatchlings by early to mid 2009 already. I have about 38 Veiled eggs incubating that I imagine will hatch In Jan or Feb, and a second clutch to be laid soon... A Nosy Be girl, Muffin, who is due to lay eggs sired by McLovin' probably by the end of this month. Next year I will have my hands full. She won't be bred until I see how the buns in the oven come out,and I know she is perfectly healthy
Thanks Again Kent, Jim, Frans, Liz, Josh, Mika...and everyone else... you were a great help.
~Joe
Sorry it has been so long since an update... I have been pretty busy with Chams and life in general.
Well I have been giving this girl special attention ever since day 1, and I think it has paid off. First off, I just want to say thank you everyone for your help... I learned a lot tackling this hurdle and all the advice was all very helpful, My Cham and I thank you.
She is definately showing improvement! After speaking with several vets, and all of the helpful minds on this site I was able to make a difference. I have been rubbing a tiny amount of Vit A on the back of 1 superworm every three days, An extremely tiny amount, in addition to her regular Gutloaded supers and roaches. I have also been giving her plenty of Natural Sun, and extended showers, while basking. Yesterday she started a nice shed, and completed it by the end of the day. Ever since her shed her eyes have been open and alert each time I checked. I am going to continue this regiment.. and give her another several months of close watch and care before I breed her. Wouldn't be smart to breed her right now, not just because of her condition, but as I am looking at having upwards of 100 hatchlings by early to mid 2009 already. I have about 38 Veiled eggs incubating that I imagine will hatch In Jan or Feb, and a second clutch to be laid soon... A Nosy Be girl, Muffin, who is due to lay eggs sired by McLovin' probably by the end of this month. Next year I will have my hands full. She won't be bred until I see how the buns in the oven come out,and I know she is perfectly healthy
Thanks Again Kent, Jim, Frans, Liz, Josh, Mika...
and everyone else... you were a great help.~Joe
