my translucent veiled

[camimom]

We breed for color anyways... extra red here and a little blue their. we are already makeing chams the way we want. there is no natural selection with human breeding programs, we do this to, evenually, make out own breed. someday CB nosey be might not look like a WC nosey be.

i said the exact same thing several posts back.
i said it was no different that breeding panthers out for unique colorings, patterns, shapes, etc.

 

[camimom]

irreversible? how so? breed back to "normals" or just keep their gene pool seperate altogether.

even if you breed back to normal, the gene is still there, its just recessive now.
so when breeding it out, maybe 20 of 30 babies have it,
but when you mkae it recessive again, maybe 1 in every other clutch has it.
its still there, just not as dominant now.

 

[lumbasammler]

The intention to breed for this mutation is generally not to prevent the animals from being able to communicate.

The intention is not really what matters, it´s more the results.
You´re right, they only see other chams on our terms but that does not really make things better to me.

I cant see other ways to determine how coloring affects communication other than breedin gout the color mutations to find out.

How about watching them and trying to find how they react on specific colors or patterns?

irreversible? how so? breed back to "normals" or just keep their gene pool seperate altogether.

I spoke of the individual chams, not of the species itself

 

[okiroo]

I love pits with the ears down.( i feel it gvies them a less aggressive look, not saying they are, but they do have tha tbad rap) but the ears up is cute too.

i have a pure english setter, but a mutt kitty.

everything in life is a double edged sword.

if you buy a purebred dog, you are supposedly 'killing' a pound puppy. but if you buy a pound puppy, then who knows what you got?

no one in life is so altruistic.

you buy this animal because it has pretty colors, but you picked based on that, why not on something else?

no matter what, people will always find something to say about what yu do, or dont do, or thought about doing.

(im not saying anyone here does this, just saying in general)

true, purebreed or pound both are potentially good pets. purebreeds shouldnt be frowned upon becuase pound pup wernt chosen, both have beating hearts and diserve loveing homes.

i said the exact same thing several posts back.
i said it was no different that breeding panthers out for unique colorings, patterns, shapes, etc.

opps true nonetheless

even if you breed back to normal, the gene is still there, its just recessive now.
so when breeding it out, maybe 20 of 30 babies have it,
but when you mkae it recessive again, maybe 1 in every other clutch has it.
its still there, just not as dominant now.

the gene is already there in chams WC and CB so is probally recessive in many chams already. i wonder what the ratio is to "normals" that would be one heck of a punute sqaure

 

[camimom]

The intention is not really what matters, it´s more the results.
You´re right, they only see other chams on our terms but that does not really make things better to me.

How about watching them and trying to find how they react on specific colors or patterns?

I spoke of the individual chams, not of the species itself

watching them would help, but it doesnt answer all quetsions, especially since veileds are generally the same colors from cham to cham.

but if you add a color mutation in, such as a trans, THEN see how they react, it can show a totally different response. JMO.

 

[camimom]

true, purebreed or pound both are potentially good pets. purebreeds shouldnt be frowned upon becuase pound pup wernt chosen, both have beating hearts and diserve loveing homes.




opps true nonetheless




the gene is already there in chams WC and CB so is probally recessive in many chams already. i wonder what the ratio is to "normals" that would be one heck of a punute sqaure

First, very true on the pound pups, alot of people dont understand that.
and second,
i believe that the gene is probably already there too, the difference is breeding it into a dominant gene.

 

[okiroo]

First, very true on the pound pups, alot of people dont understand that.
and second,
i believe that the gene is probably already there too, the difference is breeding it into a dominant gene.

i dont think it would ever be dominant(it cant really) if to get a trans you needs yy and yy and most chams will have either Yy Yy or YY YY showing only dominate and trans would be hard to get anyways, breeding untill you get full recessive is the key (ie- yy yy breeds to yy yy). however the allel(spelling) for normal coloration might eventually be bred out and you would sort of have a diffrent type of veiled. i might have mixed some of this up and im no bio expert.

 

[camimom]

i dont think it would ever be dominant(it cant really) if to get a trans you needs yy and yy and most chams will have either Yy Yy or YY YY showing only dominate and trans would be hard to get anyways, breeding untill you get full recessive is the key (ie- yy yy breeds to yy yy). however the allel(spelling) for normal coloration might eventually be bred out and you would sort of have a diffrent type of veiled. i might have mixed some of this up and im no bio expert.

I think over enough breeding time, many clutches, and only breeding trans to trans, it could at some point, be bred into a dominiant gene.
though im tryin gto remember high school sophomore year bio, and that was 10+ years ago.

 

[lumbasammler]

I think over enough breeding time, many clutches, and only breeding trans to trans, it could at some point, be bred into a dominiant gene.
though im tryin gto remember high school sophomore year bio, and that was 10+ years ago.

That again would be a mutation and has nothing to do with how you breed them.

 

[okiroo]

I think over enough breeding time, many clutches, and only breeding trans to trans, it could at some point, be bred into a dominiant gene.
though im tryin gto remember high school sophomore year bio, and that was 10+ years ago.

not dominant ever beacuse if reintroduced to a normal if would fall back to little y and never be a big Y (if that makes sence)


here an example- snapdragans can be red and white. white is recessive and red is dominant

a red snap dragon YY YYis bred to a white snapdragon yy yy


they may prodice white red and pink snapdragons. white represents the trans, it would never be dominant but rather co doninant on a normal, an occional trans and a few just normals. still a recessive gene.

 

[camimom]

That again would be a mutation and has nothing to do with how you breed them.

But then the qustion becomes...
if bred for that 'mutation' for a significant period of time..
would it still be considered a mutation, or just a regular color pattern...

for a long time various species had this happen.
at first it was a mutation, now its recognized as its own thing, even in some cases, its own species.

 

[okiroo]

That again would be a mutation and has nothing to do with how you breed them.

you do relise that mutations is what makes or breaks a species. this mutation could be good for a species or bad, not all mutations are bad. animals live or die from their surrounding when something like and earth quake changes the land and some adapt some die off. the ones that live will eventually differ to the new place off of mutations. although a bright chameleon defeats the purpose of the rest of its adaptations.

 

[Beachbabies]

wow! that's quite a rousing arguement! Not trying to take sides, (i do have an opinion, but will keep it to myself) just wanted to offer some observations for your consideration.

i actually own a pair of trans veilds, both of which, despite the large areas of white that do not change color, are able to change the color and pattern of the green parts of their bodies, they have sucessfully bred with both each other, and with normals, without problem. They seem perfectly capable of letting their mood be known to future mates and have not been turned away because of their appearance.

 

[okiroo]

wow! that's quite a rousing arguement! Not trying to take sides, (i do have an opinion, but will keep it to myself) just wanted to offer some observations for your consideration.

i actually own a pair of trans veilds, both of which, despite the large areas of white that do not change color, are able to change the color and pattern of the green parts of their bodies, they have sucessfully bred with both each other, and with normals, without problem. They seem perfectly capable of letting their mood be known to future mates and have not been turned away because of their appearance.

that sounds right. i dont see why i little color variation would change anything.

 

[shaunaroxanne]

I know a chameleon is not a dog, and I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue. I admit I am a little wishy-washy. I want to say I don't agree with the practice, but that would be hypocritical of me since I own an English Bulldog- the most genetically altered dog breed on the planet.

Most people LOVE bulldogs because of the way they look, walk, sound, etc. But my guy is 9 and that is OLD in bulldog years. Here is a quote from Time Magazine about the effects of breeding for certain desired traits......

“There is little doubt that the anatomy of the English bulldog has considerable capacity to cause suffering,” Dr. Nicola Rooney and Dr. David Sargan concluded in one of the reports, “Pedigree Dog Breeding in the U.K.: A Major Welfare Concern?” “The breed is noted to have locomotion difficulties, breathing problems, an inability to mate or give birth without assistance. . . . Many would question whether the breed’s quality of life is so compromised that its breeding should be banned.”

But people are never going to stop breeding these dogs, especially since they sell for $3000 and up per puppy (I paid $2500 9 years ago so they are probably considerably higher now).

There are good points to both sides of this issue. I really don't think there is a right or wrong, it's all just perspective I guess.

 

[pssh]

Now I'm starting to loose the meaning in everything. Things are getting tossed around strangely and certain things don't make sense. I give up now.

 

[HUNYANGOAKO]

296337_1862851265000_1652546763_1484203_2206602_n

 

[HUNYANGOAKO]

trans veiled

here's mine

 

[HUNYANGOAKO]

here's mine

does anyone know if my translucent will get more translucent as he grows? he has a white veil and tail and insideall his legs are white and his toes are translucent 100%

trans veiled

 

[Mredhorse]

How do the babies turn out?
can you predict like with snakes?