My veiled chamelen keep hes head and body stick to the ground ! :-(

[Cnet]

Hello, I own a veiled chameleon ... he used to be very happy and active but for some time he keeps his head and body sticked to the ground for very long time ... in last days and recently it looks like he dont seem to coordonate hes members very good anymore ....
I attach few pictures of hem ... I am very worry about hem ... I will go with hem to a vet tomorow ...

 

[Kath44]

Can you fill in this https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
Cham looks very dehydrated and appears to have mbd.
Does it have the spurs on its back feet? If not you have a female and may need to lay eggs.
Until you fill the form out it will be difficult for members to help you.
Looks like a vet visit is needed to be truthful.
Kath.

 

[kinyonga]

He might have MBD...not sure...photo isn't clear enough on my playbook..please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum so we can help you better.

 

[Cnet]

I fill the forum ... I am wonder what chances are for hem to become active like few mounths ago ... I will be more carefull from now on ...

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled chameleon
Handling - since is sick every few days but before I used to do it about once a week
Feeding - I feed the chameleon once a day, with no schedule ... unfortunately I didnt gut-loaded the feeders by nou :-(
Supplements - I did it only once ... I recognise, I didnt know it was realy necesary :-(
Watering - I use a waterfall, I never seen my chemeleon drinking, but I've seen hem wet sometimes ... unfortunately he didnt have a waterfall last days as it was temporary broken ... I put hem static waterbut I dont know if he drink it
Fecal Description - my chameleon nevr been tested for parasites, I dont remeber how to describe the color and consitency of recent droppings but I will be carefull from now on
History - I buy the chameleon few mounths ago from pet shop, I was told he/ she was born in captivity (and the pet seller told me is very easy to care of hem :-( ... looks like is not and I am sorry I was not been more carefull )

Cage Info:
Cage Type - glass ... 45 x 45 x 60 ... I used one for 90 cm tall with a real plant but I change it 2 weeks ago with 60 cm and fake plant becouse this cage looks better ... since then he looks down and recently sick :-(
Lighting - I dont remember the brand as I trow out the package, but I use a night and a day one with no day light schedule
Temperature - In last 2 weeks I start measure temp in the cage, it range from 22 to 32.
Humidity - in last few weeks I mesure the temp of humidity, it range from 30 to 50-60, but I used to spray whater twice a day in the cage and I still do so
Plants - I used a climbing plant but since I change the cage I use fake ones
Placement - the cage ois placement on a closed 60 cm tall, si the top of the actual cage is 120 cm from the floor ... the cage is not placed around any fans or air vents
Location - Romania

Current Problem - He dosnt seams to coordonate hes legs very well, he keeps hes head and body stuck to the floor/ head/ liane ... hes worst every day :-(

I will update this thread based on info from my girlfriend as well ... maby we wasnt care enough with hem :-(

 

[Lathis]

Cnet, it sounds like you were probably given incorrect information on your chameleons care. A lot of the details above will lead to a sick chameleon. They are not necessarily hard to care for, but their care is very different from other reptiles.

Your chameleon does look very sick and dehydrated. Do you have a shower? Put him on a branch and turn the shower on warm. Direct the spray against the wall so the water bounces off the wall and doesn't hit him directly. Let him sit in there for 30 minutes but watch him closely.

Do you have a reptile vet you can take him to? He does look sick and may have metabolic bone disease, which makes the bines soft from lack of calcium. It will be difficult to treat yourself.

I'm going to find some links to help you and post below.

 

[Lathis]

Care sheet for a veiled chameleon. Read through this in detail and let us know if there is anything you are unclear about.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

Plus, if you have a girl, she may have eggs. If she doesn't have a save place to lay them, she can become eggbound and die. It's really important that you get her laying bin now. She may be too weak to lay her eggs unfortunately.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[Cnet]

I was with my chameleon to the vet today, he made hem a radiograpy that I attach here. The vet told me the methabolic problem is mostly from missing radiation of the sun in tha cage. Looks like the chameleon have a lot of fractures. I want to take care of hem and make hem well and do whatever it takes for that, I will post info pics here regularity, help for this is very much apreciated.

The vet did some calcium injections to the fracture bone zones, give me some calcium pills that are used to the cats, and told me I should put one pill everyday inside the circket or worm before he will eat it. Then I should come back in 10 days to make hem another injections. What do you think about?

 

[Cnet]

I remove the lians form the cage becouse I think they are unsafe as he can hurt hemself falling from them ... and I put inside a blanked that I used today for transportation to the vet as here is winter now and around 1 degree. Maby I should discurage hem claiming now ... what do you think? Feedback and helpful info is very welcome and needed.

 

[Lathis]

Poor little thing. You can see the fractures in the xrays. Calcium injections are good. Please take him back in ten days as recommended by the vet.

Do you have a light that emits UVB (ultraviolet light)? You should have two different kind of lights - one for heat only (basking) and a UVB light to mimic the sun. This is help your chameleon produce Vitamin D (we call it D3), which is produced naturally by the body and is required to absorb calcium. Calcium without D3 is not going to fix your chameleon, but you have to be careful not to overdose on D3. You need a UVB light immediately; chameleons cannot live without one.

Take out the red light - you do not need any lights at night. No lights at all during the night. Chameleons like the temperatures to cool down at night. Plus, they can see red light with a special light-sensitive scale called a "parietal eye", so red lights will interrupt their sleep.

http://www.lllreptile.com/products/22477-zoo-med-mini-compact-fluorescent-50-bulb-13-watt

This type of light will fit inside the fixture you have now.

I have never been given pills for calcium - only liquid or dust. If you put the full pill inside a bug, he might spit it out. I would try crushing the pill and covering the insects with the dust. Do you have plain calcium powder? You will need to get some to use every day from now on.

http://www.lllreptile.com/products/23673-repashy-supercal-nod-3oz-jar

I think it's good to discourage him from climbing too high, but he will be more comfortable with something to grip. Can you lay a vine or branch flat across the bottom of the cage? He might like that.

Also, make sure he is getting enough water during this time. Give him lots of misting and showers. You may have to mist him for several minutes before he starts drinking - this is normal. Be very gentle if you have to move him.

Temperatures will be very important now, since he can't climb to be warm. Make sure he is warm enough to digest his food, but don't overheat him. Keep him around 29 C during the day.

Can you get black soldier fly larvae (scientific name: Hermeia illucens) or silkworms (Bombyx mori)? Both are naturally high in calcium and help with bone issues.

I know you probably won't order from LLL Reptile directly - those links are just to show you the products I am talking about.

 

[Vegas Chad]

Lots going on here... First you have a female veiled chameleon, not a male. You have some big calcium issues going on that you won't be able to fully correct. At this point I would recommend simply doing what makes your chameleon most comfortable. Find a few good care sheets to read and compare them to your care - make adjustments as needed.

 

[Cnet]

I did hem 2 showers as instructied and attach a picture.
I buy and use a UVB rays bulb but it dosnt say anything about 3D stimulation ...
I try to put the calcium pill that vet give me in the insects, he eat one worm yersterday with a pill inside but nothing today and yesterday. The problem si he dont want to eat and is very hard to put calcium pills inside the insects, moust of the time I fail and hut the insect. I am wonder why he dont want to eat like he used to do it before. He just stay still for very a long time. What should I do about that?
Will be a good idea to put the cage next to the window in order to catch some sun light?
What I should do? Is very sad to see hem like that, he dont move and stay still.

 

[jannb]

I'm really sorry to see your chameleon in that condition. I would get some liquid calcium gluconate because that's what most vets recommend and it will be easier to give. Here's a link with some great info about MBD. I'm also attaching my blog for how I have had success raising veileds over the years.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

 

[kinyonga]

Since you have a female its important that she has a proper place in the cage so she can dig to lay eggs if/when she needs to. They can lay eggs without having mated.

Liquid calcium sandoz or gluconate is more readily absorbed than powdered calcium and pills..so I would recommend you get some.

In addition to this she needs exposure to a proper UVB light. Sunlight through the glass windows is not going to provide UVB.

You also need to make sure her temperatures are right (basking in the low to mid 80's F) so she can digest the food and thus indirectly absorb the nutrients needed from her food.

It's important to feed / gutload the insects such as crickets, locusts, roaches, superworms a wide assortment of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.

Supplementing once her calcium is back in balance should be phosphorous free calcium at most feedings with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder twice a month and a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene ( prOformed ) source of vitamin A twice a month to keep the phosphorous, D3, vitamin A and calcium in balance.

 

[Cnet]

So in this case, UVB is enough? No sunlight needed?
I made her a place to hide ... but how do you know is a female? The vet say it might be a male ... so is a female? I attach a picture with the hiding? Is that fine? I put substrate only in case she has eggs and need to deposit in a hiding place ...
He looks better today, moved more then yesterday, he also did some climing? Is that good? I uderstend should be discouraged from climing?
I get some lequid calcium supliment but how do I administrate?
I buy an umidificator and put some of this liquid calcium in there and in the waterfall as well. I clean hes waterfall offen and on the calcium recipient it say 'drinking water conditioner'.
I also buy an injection for reptile and I attach a photo ... on vet shop was writed that can be used for oral liquid administration. But how do I use something like this?

 

[carol5208]

To see if it is a female for sure(which it appears to be) post some pics of the back of the back heel. The males have a tarsal spur(a little point that sticks out) the females do not.

 

[Kath44]

Your Cham will probably never use the hide.
The way to tell if female or male is to check it's back feet. If it has little spurs on it's back feet, back of them, it's a male. No spurs, female.
If female she probably won't deposit eggs in the substrate, as it won't be deep enough. A laying bin is what you will need.
Search the forums for laying bin ideas.
The substrate will only pose as a choking, impaction and bacteria risk. Best to remove it.
Kath.

 

[zlew]

I was looking at the Xray and I saw so many fractures, in one place a bone was snapped at a 90 degree angle (back left leg, what would be the femur in humans not sure if it's the same for chams), is it even possible for this girl to recover and live a healthy life?

 

[Cnet]

I post this pictures to find out of is male or female ...
I try to give hem dead food that move using electric tricks but didnt work so far ...

I need lequid supliment calcium or specialy glucanate?
How do I give hem liquid calcium using this injection I just posted? I find this on reptile pet shop and it say is used for mouth feeding.

 

[Kath44]

Can't really see the back of the back feet, like heel. I still say female.
Not sure how to use the syringe you have. The liquid calcium I think can fe be given via a needle by a vet or injected into a feeder, into a cricket.
Chams tend not to eat dead stuff, do you have access to live foods? Crickets, hoppers, silkworms, Phoenix worms, flies, moths etc?
Kath.

 

[Cnet]

I attached this 2 photos, so is a male or female?
He grab himself so this is all pictures I take ... should I try more?