Natural UV outdoor time- supps?

[Twitchet]

Part of my everyday regime- weather permitting -i'm in the U.K -is getting everyone out in their outdoor enclosures- the parsons have always had access- usually 10am -5pm everyday and am working on the same for the xanth and the panther
@Andee I know you say you let your chams have sunshine and sometimes your weather will only allow just 15 minutes- but even that is good and worth it so if it's a cloudy day this summer I'm trying to get the panther out for that time minimum,
so questions-
if I can let them have 30 minutes a day- minimum- will that be beneficial - for UV absorption- even at that short time would you lay off D3 supps? they all obviously have uv tubes indoors( outdoor time will actually be more like 3-6 hours a day- all have shaded areas for self regulation- mistkings in most- (this year am making other outdoor enclsoures - better designs etc)
If I can get them outdoors weather-temps permitiing from May to October- would I still supplement through the winter-or a very reduced supplementation - I am mainly taking about the panther and veiled here.
Is a cloudy day -if warm enough-still going to be beneficial?
As long as there is adequate shade, humidity, hydration is there such a thing as too much UV exposure.
many thanks for input.

 

[nightanole]

Let me wade through this...

Chams only need about 2 hours a week of 6.5 UVI. Above that you really dont need a D3 supplement.
If you are not running T5 HO's, odds are you are running .25-.5 UVI. If you are running 6%/5.0 HO's, you are running about double that.
I dont know your supplement sched, but stickytonguefarms has outdoor calcium without D3, and an indoor calcium with very low dose D3 can can be given every calcium dusting.
UVI really doesnt change much for full sun vs cloudy. UVA will be reduced by over half (sun burn uv), but bone building uvb isnt affected much by cloud cover.
You can not over UV using natural light that is way off from the equator. At worst the cham can over heat from direct sun and no shade to hide in.

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/forecastmaps?CONT=ukuk&MAPS=uvin&LAND=__

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...&zoom=5&lon=-4.00&lat=55.71&fcTime=1496390400

 

[Andee]

I agree with everything nightanole says. You may need to supplement sparingly through out winter if they get no outside time. But in my opinion it would be more reduced @nightanole, any thoughts on that? Otherwise I don't supplement Ryker at all and he usually gets at least 2 hours of natural uvb every day, usually more and no other types of uvb. (Thats just because of his eyes sadly) but hes doing great and is showing huge improvement

 

[nightanole]

If i cant get in 2 hours a week of natty lite, i supplement with sticktongue indoor which has the lowest D3 on the market. Else i run outdoor formula with no D3. Im of the opinion most people over supplement vs under. My adults get 1 feeding of calcium powdered bugs 2x a month. Babies/sub adults they get half the feedings supplemented with indoor formula regardless of outdoor time. The also get 2 feedings a month for vit powder. Adults i just rely on the gut loads and do not vit supplement.

 

[Andee]

The most I supplement is with vitamin A supplementation and calcium, I agree with you it's best to come from gutload. With Ryker the way he is I do more supplementing at the moment than I usually would. When I have a relatively healthy chameleon I do very little supplementing. Sadly I take in a lot of rescues so it takes a while until they get to the point where that is possible. At the moment Ryker is getting liquid vitamin A (one drop twice a week now, I have noticed he shows most improvement with this) and liquid calcium twice a week. With a reptivitamin with no D3 once a month, and plain calcium powder once a week. I am just doing what he shows to do best with. With him he's such a weird and special case that I have had to experiment so much to find what works for him. He definitely was a great beginner chameleon in the beginning, I am glad he didn't start with these problems and it only started in his senior years when I had far more experience XD.

@Twitchet of course this brings me to another point, don't be silly and just think because something works for the majority of your chameleons that it will work for all of them. As you probably know, if one is showing signs of not doing great on this new schedule, tweak it in all sorts of ways. Don't be afraid to mess around and try different things with them. It's the only way to improve it.

 

[Twitchet]

Guys- That is such great info- it's answered so many of my questions/ worries- I can't thank you both enough- it's everything i need.
I'm soooo happy!
I don't like supps- I do because everyone else uses them and I go by the route which you have both described- natural, gutload and caution- I gutload every morning, turnip, grape leaves, mustard etc, carrots, squash etc we grow plants to gutload with and it's my preferred route, i try extremely hard to feed the feeders at least 4 or 5 green plant types plus a homemade mix of cinnamon, garlic, blueberry powder, acai, pumpkin seeds- the list is long! , I also strive to supply a number of different and varied feeders, I only do supps once a month for those that go out regularly, and as I am worried about over doing it I get I dust as lightly as I can, I do calcium almost every feed or arcadia earth pro A , and also vit A once a month too but as I say It's now the season for outings every day so i'll take the notes youve given, this has always been something I ask myself so if I can go the natural uv route as much as the weather permits I'll be an extremely happy bunny and that should really help the chams. And great advice- I will tweak this and re-access if I feel something isnt right.
I look forward to this summer when everyone will have access throughout the day to an outdoor run, linked with a hatch from indoors and I can open the hatches and they can come and go as they choose. The veiled especially loves the outdoors, he thrives on being able to get out, he will have the parsons hand me down cage when the parson upgrades lol, so he's have lots of room.
Thanks again really super!

 

[Davecameos]

I would use sticky tongue farm supp. If they are out, you can use the minerall outdoor even the indoor.
The d3 levels are very low. A good brand to consider. I use that and plain calcium. I would not use just minerall. Moderation is the key.

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Dave, yes I've used their products, will get the minerall again, that the one that smells of blueberries now? Odd.
I just stocked up on fresh vits so I may wait lol, I'm really pleased I can go the natural route as much as poss though. everyone has been out again today - yay.

 

[Davecameos]

Hi Dave, yes I've used their products, will get the minerall again, that the one that smells of blueberries now? Odd.
I just stocked up on fresh vits so I may wait lol, I'm really pleased I can go the natural route as much as poss though. everyone has been out again today - yay.

Nice
The minerall has not vits included. I do all the vits like you with gutload. I do a wet mix and a dry mix. The rest a bit of minerall now and then and plain calcium.

 

[bobcochran]

30 minutes of real sun is better UVB than 8 hours of bulbs! 30 minutes outside is well worth the effort.

 

[Twitchet]

30 minutes of real sun is better UVB than 8 hours of bulbs! 30 minutes outside is well worth the effort.

I am still going to provide uv when they are indoors-( lights on in the morning and off at night obviously!) even during the summer when they are out most of the day- is that o.k? I'm double checking everything- re: paranoia!

One last question guys- I am aiming for minimum 2 hours a week in the weather is against me- would actually be 3-6 hours a day for the panther and for the xanth, 7 hours a day for the parsons,although they are shaded - relying on good sunny weather in the U.K!
but if I could only clock up 2 hours on one day as the other 6 days were not suitable for him is that still o.k or does it need to spread it evenly throughout to actually do any good? ( which I would try and do) .

 

[Andee]

Does not need to be spread evenly, honestly there are about 3 hours of peak uvb basking hours. Chameleons and other reptiles are most likely to bask for uvb during those hours

 

[Twitchet]

Thanks Andee, during warm days here by 11 am everyone is fed and watered and warmed up and the glasshouses are warmed up too so I let everyone out so they can bask, glasshouses have a wire mesh area for uv rays, it gives everyone lots of free range and exercise, and I get them all in for afternoon watering by about 4-5 so that's a good time and it's so nice to see them out and moving around instead of in a viv. Won't be like that in the winter but at least they can have fun during the summer, Thanks for your help, been very informative.