Neck chub

[OACham]

Hey there,

Recently we've noticed our female panther's been growing a sort of "fat" around her neck and between her front legs. Perhaps it's from too many butterworms? Any suggestions on how to help this go away would be appreciated...

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Your girl may have Gular Edema. It can indicate underlying health issues which are potentially life threatening. I think it is normally considered to be caused by over supplementation. It is, however, not unusual for female chameleons to get it when they are gravid. I have had that happen with 2 of our females when graved. I keep them very well hydrated (more than normal) and decrease vitamin supplements but continue with calcium supplements. It has gone away after they laid their eggs.

Is your female gravid?

Here are a few links to threads on this forum where the Gular Edema was discussed. There are some photos you can compare to your girl. Can you post a photo?

Best of luck!

https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-gular-edema-13333/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/calcium-vitamins-12424/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-male-ambilobe-swollen-12358/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/sambava-has-gular-edema-11529/

 

[OACham]

Well, I suppose she could be. We've put her in with our male a couple of times to try to breed, but never kept an eye on them the whole time. I'm going to try taking her to a vet tomorrow to see if she could check for eggs. I sure will be emberassed if she's been gravid all this time and I haven't given her a proper environment!! Thanks for the edema articles, I'm almost positive this is what's going on if not the eggs. I'll try to get a picture up showing her neck soon.

 

[kinyonga]

Does/did your female show a very dark brown background color with bright peachy colored markings when in the presence of the male? Did she show any signs of rejecting the male (hissing, gaping, rocking back and forth, etc.)?

It has always been my recommendation to have a suitable container of sand in the cage with any sexually mature egglaying female chameleon so that she can dig to show you that she needs to lay eggs. It doesn't have to be huge...just big enough that when empty she fits into it with several inches to spare on all sides...including above and below her.

 

[OACham]

Does/did your female show a very dark brown background color with bright peachy colored markings when in the presence of the male? Did she show any signs of rejecting the male (hissing, gaping, rocking back and forth, etc.)?

It has always been my recommendation to have a suitable container of sand in the cage with any sexually mature egglaying female chameleon so that she can dig to show you that she needs to lay eggs. It doesn't have to be huge...just big enough that when empty she fits into it with several inches to spare on all sides...including above and below her.

She didn't outright reject him nor did she preform any of the mating ritiuals. They continued eating, and we only stayed in to make sure they were not hostile toward eachother. Niether turned away from their "content" colors. In short they seemed to just ignore eachother. They were together for a few hours unobserved, when we returned they were stitting on diffent vines seemingly content.

The crickets we feed her are dusted when ever fed with Sticky Tongue Farms miner-all and gut loaded with potatoes ocassionally carrotes but Nature Zone Total Bites 90% of the crickets diet. Only a few of the crickets are still powerded doughnuts when she eats them, the rest get mostly clean by climbing around her cage. She drinks reguarly and doesn't seemed dehydrated.

 

[OACham]

Here are a few pics of her, the first you can see the part between her legs, and the second is a really good view of her neck. She's got an appointment with a vet tomorrow, see what they think. Thanks for all the help, again.

-Becky

 

[Julirs]

I am willing to bet if you cut back on the supplements your problem would go away. Way too much miner-all (I am thinking this is vitamin/mineral Supp.) and go to a phos and d3 free calcium several times weekly and use the vit/mineral a few times monthly. Nothing should look like shake and bake, less is better! For a week try nothing and up the water to dissipate the edema.

 

[OACham]

still there

Well guys, it's been a week and we stopped giving her dusted crickets, and upped the water intake...and there was a change....except it wasn't a good one...it seems the chub is getting bigger. Took her to the vet, and they said they needed to take xrays to get advice from an actual specialist, since we live in a small town that has -maybe- 5 vet clinics and NO reptile specialists anymore. The good part is that she's still active, alert AND eating. First sign of any of these going wrong and she'll be immediately taken back.

Any more advice??? We've had a Graceful pass away on us already and we'd hate to see Aida leave as well.

 

[Julirs]

Could she be gravid-when did they breed? Do you have an egg laying container? This stuff may have already been asked, but I have a female that about 2 weeks before laying get edema that gradually causes her neck to get bigger, then goes away after she lays.

 

[Brian]

I had a male with edema a little while back...It helped by putting him outside more often, not giving him supplements (besides calcium) and giving him more water

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

I had a male with edema a little while back...It helped by putting him outside more often, not giving him supplements (besides calcium) and giving him more water

I agree. Our cross morph was having chronic gular edema (he was a rescue). Putting him outside this summer several times a week for some real sun (mixed sun and shade) has really made a difference.

How old is your UVB bulb?

Also double check your temps to make sure your cham is warm enough. Don't raise them to make them hot. I'm just suggesting you double check to make sure the temps are what they should be.

Of course, I'm not a vet and haven't seen the cham in person, but I don't know what X-rays would have to do with it. Unless they wanted to Xray her to check for eggs. They should have taken a blood draw and checked for the health of her vital organs. Since edema can also be caused by organ damage. The blood work should reveal any abnormalities with liver/kidney performance. Blood is taken from the bottom of the tail. What did the vet do?

Your cham very well could be gravid. We have 2 females who do not show standard gravid coloration when they are carrying their eggs- unless we present them to a male. And even then, it takes a while for the gravid color to come through. And it is possible she would not have shown her gravid (unreceptive) colors with your male because he did not advance on her.

I don't remember- do you have a laying bin in with her? It's probably a good idea.

 

[Chuck G]

Increase her water intake. It will take longer than a week without the supplementation in most cases.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Increase her water intake. It will take longer than a week without the supplementation in most cases.

Yes, I forgot about that. We do that with our male morph cross, too, and it helps alot. Great recommendation.

 

[Chuck G]

Also if she is gravid even if you cut back on her supplementation and are gutloading your feeders really well, she is in a retaining vitamin and mineral phase and will go back to normal after the egg laying

 

[OACham]

Also if she is gravid even if you cut back on her supplementation and are gutloading your feeders really well, she is in a retaining vitamin and mineral phase and will go back to normal after the egg laying

She hasn't displayed any of the colors for being gravid even when in the presence of the male. We've cut back the powdering should we set aside crickets for her that arn't gut loaded with box suppliments?