Necropsy on my chameleon GRAPHIC PICTURES

[Flacon67]

Chams fall from time to time healthy or not but that won’t kill them I’d say it was more along the line of a parasite.. veilds can make them selves look skinny and the eyes weren’t sucked in but if you see the tail looking like bone almost like a spine it’s most likely worms but cutting him up is on some other level shit lol

My Chams tail only gets pointy when I’m like making the cage better or putting crickets in, or he is stressed but that’s normal right?

 

[iMi]

Guess everybody whoever learned was a trained scientist to begin with lol

Well, think about it... if he dissected a dozen specimens and made measurements, comparisons, detailed observations -- then I may agree. He's "dissecting" one animal. What is he to learn from it when there is a better source of valuable info -- feedback from those here with lots of experience who can evaluate the setup, husbandry, etc.

I don't really see the value...

 

[jamest0o0]

Well, think about it... if he dissected a dozen specimens and made measurements, comparisons, detailed observations -- then I may agree. He's "dissecting" one animal. What is he to learn from it when there is a better source of valuable info -- feedback from those here with lots of experience who can evaluate the setup, husbandry, etc.

I don't really see the value...

Yeah I can agree with that. I'm not saying that I think he will find answers to his problems. I'm sure he tried learn what he could about the animal while it was living(I'd hope at least...). I just don't see a problem with trying to learn more after the animal passes. Even if it's just a little better understanding of a chameleon's anatomy. Idk it's not really my thing, but I don't think it's that big a deal. If he was killing them and cutting them open, that'd be a different story haha.

 

[Goose502]

I have no issue with dissection, novice or not. I’ve “dissected” hundreds of fish and animals I’ve taken for consumption. You will learn something every time. Is it difficult to do this to a pet? It would be for me. I don’t think it’s outside of normal though. Hell, I really enjoy the process, all be it fish, deer, or even human (yes I have dissected multiple cadavers). I hope there’s someone out there who may be able to identify something from the autopsy pics, but I agree with most others, fill out the form, something was wrong long before he fell.

 

[GoodKarma19]

I have no issue with dissection, novice or not. I’ve “dissected” hundreds of fish and animals I’ve taken for consumption. You will learn something every time. Is it difficult to do this to a pet? It would be for me. I don’t think it’s outside of normal though. Hell, I really enjoy the process, all be it fish, deer, or even human (yes I have dissected multiple cadavers). I hope there’s someone out there who may be able to identify something from the autopsy pics, but I agree with most others, fill out the form, something was wrong long before he fell.

Thank you for articulating that thought! I was struggling putting words to it.

There's definitely a difference between dissecting to learn anatomy, and performing a necropsy to find cause of death. Dissecting is for anyone with the stomach for it - proper identification of abnormalities (outside of more obvious causes such as blockages) will likely take a trained professional. Even then, it can be a real guessing game depending on whether samples are being sent out for pathology and how familiar the practitioner is with the individual species.

I'm certainly not against dissection, and I personally try to find opportunities to further my anatomical knowledge. I work in the veterinary field, so I get lots of chances! (With wildlife, of course - I'm not cutting open people's pets without consent! )

Definitely off topic, but I'd love to see an autopsy performed! I had actually considered a career as a medical examiner. While I am going into human medicine soon, it'll be in the medical device reprocessing field.

~Amanda

 

[iMi]

I have no issue with dissection, novice or not. I’ve “dissected” hundreds of fish and animals I’ve taken for consumption. You will learn something every time. Is it difficult to do this to a pet? It would be for me. I don’t think it’s outside of normal though. Hell, I really enjoy the process, all be it fish, deer, or even human (yes I have dissected multiple cadavers). I hope there’s someone out there who may be able to identify something from the autopsy pics, but I agree with most others, fill out the form, something was wrong long before he fell.

Note to self... make sure I don't bump into you in a dark ally. I may come out missing a kidney.

 

[reallyfunguy]

I doubt its the fall that killed him, you don't really see anything inside that's been ruptured I agree with the probable parasites and dehydration, was there any change in behavior like falling asleep when lights were on or sleeping in your hand or any other signs or lethargy?

The day he died was sleeping with the lights on. Which was the first clue something was wrong. First time that happened though.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Cutting open your dead chameleons is an excellent way to learn about them and their health. I open up almost everything including my pet chickens that have died or been culled (there are only so many roosters you can keep!). You will learn a lot.

The pictures that most caught my attention were the ones showing the pale cream/tan colored mass in the chest. Do you know what that was? It looks hard (because there were straight lines and angles rather than a soft oval shape). Was it hard? Did you cut that open? I think it is too high in the chest to be the stomach but I could be wrong. You can see a tiny bit of what I think was the stomach (cream colored) nestled behind the black (normal) intestines in the last picture.

If it is not too late, try to identify what that structure is. In the chest, there is a tiny heart, lungs, liver and esophagus. The stomach is a little hard to tell from the esophagus. That's pretty much the main organs you can easily find. I wonder if there was a blockage in the esophagus or maybe the stomach. Lungs are hard to find. Lungs go the whole length of the body. The digestive tract is easy to separate--just start at one end or the other. I've seen a couple of tumors/lesions that looked very similar to that attached to the livers.

You did a great job on that dissection, by the way. It isn't easy to do.
@Mawtyplant @reallyfunguy

 

[reallyfunguy]

Cutting open your dead chameleons is an excellent way to learn about them and their health. I open up almost everything including my pet chickens that have died or been culled (there are only so many roosters you can keep!). You will learn a lot.

The pictures that most caught my attention were the ones showing the pale cream/tan colored mass in the chest. Do you know what that was? It looks hard (because there were straight lines and angles rather than a soft oval shape). Was it hard? Did you cut that open? I think it is too high in the chest to be the stomach but I could be wrong. You can see a tiny bit of what I think was the stomach (cream colored) nestled behind the black (normal) intestines in the last picture.

If it is not too late, try to identify what that structure is. In the chest, there is a tiny heart, lungs, liver and esophagus. The stomach is a little hard to tell from the esophagus. That's pretty much the main organs you can easily find. I wonder if there was a blockage in the esophagus or maybe the stomach. Lungs are hard to find. Lungs go the whole length of the body. The digestive tract is easy to separate--just start at one end or the other. I've seen a couple of tumors/lesions that looked very similar to that attached to the livers.

You did a great job on that dissection, by the way. It isn't easy to do.
@Mawtyplant @reallyfunguy

Thanks. Yes it was kinda hard. I buried him I may try to look. Seen another chameleon with the same thing in this thread

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/lolas-necropsy.35878/

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thanks. Yes it was kinda hard. I buried him I may try to look. Seen another chameleon with the same thing in this thread

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/lolas-necropsy.35878/

That necropsy is nothing similar to your chameleon's. That beige organ in the other necropsy is called a "fat body" and it is NORMAL. It is where fat is stored.

I don't think you want to be digging up a dead chameleon if it is longer than a day. The smell of a decaying animal is really bad. It clings on you.

 

[Mawtyplant]

That necropsy is nothing similar to your chameleon's. That beige organ in the other necropsy is called a "fat body" and it is NORMAL. It is where fat is stored.

I don't think you want to be digging up a dead chameleon if it is longer than a day. The smell of a decaying animal is really bad. It clings on you.

Wow! thats a good necropsy here! Thnks Jajean (Btw good too see you!).

Doubted about the fat pad because the animal don't look too obese compared to that pad and because of the "rosé" aspect on some part of the pad.

 

[Mawtyplant]

Well, think about it... if he dissected a dozen specimens and made measurements, comparisons, detailed observations -- then I may agree. He's "dissecting" one animal. What is he to learn from it when there is a better source of valuable info -- feedback from those here with lots of experience who can evaluate the setup, husbandry, etc.

I don't really see the value...

lot of people with necropsy experience help him so I found at the end the value is than a lot of people learned including the person who perform the dissection

I think people can be a multitasking ninja when its time to learn from the body and learn from the husbandry! plus.. the chameleon is dead there is no real rush here (except for the dissection of cours because dead smell like.. dead.. and this is not getting better over time!

So! after all of this! want to share the husbandry with us so we can help you to figure it out precisely what happen and change it for the futur ?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Wow! thats a good necropsy here! Thnks Jajean (Btw good too see you!).

Doubted about the fat pad because the animal don't look too obese compared to that pad and because of the "rosé" aspect on some part of the pad.

My comment on the normal fat pad was in a necropsy photo the OP linked in his thread @Mawtyplant . He thought the fat pads on the other necropsy photos looked like the mass in the abdomen of his own dead chameleon.

Thank you for the welcome back. I've just moved and my life is Hell right now.

 

[cham girl]

my vet charges $250 to $350 So some do their own.... which is brilliant if you have others you want to protect. One guy posted a pic he found a ( cricket quencher) he had placed in the corner of the cage so he could keep a couple crickets live in the cage.. which had lodged in the small intestine, and was obvious it had sucked the intestine dry and couldn't pass. I found a seed pod piece lodged in the intestine, I post these findings because the grief of not taking it out haunts me... and I'm hoping helps others to beware of what can be snapped up with a bug that is standing on a small piece of ??? and gripping on to for its life when a pet snaps it up. in my case I free range so stuff blows off the trees so now I only use feeder bowls and no longer release them on the floor, and just put one on the side so they can hunt. we learn and grow together by sharing this knowledge.

 

[Crossingtami]

This is VERY WEIRD, Im not sure what happened to you poor Cham but please do not cut on him. There is NO WAY I could cut on something that I loved. Also the first pic he look’s very malnutritioned and dehydrated. Please ask for help WAY before this happens. I’m not trying to be mean but this is WAY OUT THERE!!! Chameleons don’t just fall and die. Many many issues lead up to there death.

I have to agree. Why would u cut on a loved pet when u have no idea what to look for? Morbid. I would have taken my little one to my cham vet to do necropsy. Just saying.

 

[jamest0o0]

I have to agree. Why would u cut on a loved pet when u have no idea what to look for? Morbid. I would have taken my little one to my cham vet to do necropsy. Just saying.

This is almost a 2 year old thread. No one cares who agrees with who. I still stand by my original statement, but if one is too emotional to handle it, needs solid answers, or isn't interested in learning about it(I personally would go to a vet if I wanted a necropsy), then of course go to a vet. These bland "why would you cut a dead pet posts" are silly.

 

[jamest0o0]

@ferretinmyshoes old post of mine, but hope you don't take that as a slight against vets. I just think it's good to encourage people to learn something on their own(if they're interested!), even if it's not their main profession.

 

[caroline?]

im not against you doing this but i can't imagine doing that to my pet it gives me the chills!
sorry for your loss : (

 

[Crossingtami]

This is almost a 2 year old thread. No one cares who agrees with who. I still stand by my original statement, but if one is too emotional to handle it, needs solid answers, or isn't interested in learning about it(I personally would go to a vet if I wanted a necropsy), then of course go to a vet. These bland "why would you cut a dead pet posts" are silly.

This is almost a 2 year old thread. No one cares who agrees with who. I still stand by my original statement, but if one is too emotional to handle it, needs solid answers, or isn't interested in learning about it(I personally would go to a vet if I wanted a necropsy), then of course go to a vet. These bland "why would you cut a dead pet posts" are silly.

Sorry... didnt know it was an old thread. And upon rereading my reply, I didn't mean to sound judgemental. Guess it just came out wrong. Theres no reason to get snippy with ur reply.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

@ferretinmyshoes old post of mine, but hope you don't take that as a slight against vets. I just think it's good to encourage people to learn something on their own(if they're interested!), even if it's not their main profession.

It just popped up on the feed since someone commented so I went through all the comments. No offense taken, i have encouraged the same