Need a little advice

[RexandRain]

ok so I've had my Chameleon Kratos for about 5-6 months now.
and his eye started going shut on a regulary basis about a week ago.
At first my brother and I thought it was his calcium levels because I had forgotten that I had calcium under the table that his cage is on and never got around to go buying new stuff. When I found the calcium under the table I gave him a Cricket dusted in it, it hasn't seemed to help yet but I've given him 2 more like that around 4 days apart since the first one cause I thought he needed a boost. My brother said I need sticky tongue as well, here is a picture of his eye closed sorry for the camera quality
it isn't closed from the flash cause I didn't have it on.

 

[lisa h]

I can't make out anything from the picture, but can you tell me what kind of lights you have set up for him?

 

[RexandRain]

sorry I got a new picture now. I have a normal heating lamp and a reptiglow florescent light from my Local pet store

 

[Carlton]

That Reptiglo lamp isn't producing much of the correct spectrum UV. The best tube fluorescent UV producing lamp is the ReptiSun 5.0. NOT the compact coil type, the linear tube type. So, in the mean time until you can replace the UV light try to get your cham out in true sunlight if the weather permits. It can make quite a difference fairly quickly.

You need 3 types of dust...calcium with D3, calcium without D3, and herp vitamins. I prefer using Miner All with D3 as a daily source of calcium (light dusting, not a heavy coating), but others use slightly different brands.

 

[RexandRain]

ok thanks, what about Sticky Tongue?
I opened the blinds that my chameleon's cage is by to let it sunlight.
she sees the trees outside adn tries to escape mos tof the time when the blinds are open so I keep them closed

 

[Carlton]

Sticky Tongue produces MinerAll. The level of D3 is lower than some other brands so you can use it lightly on a regular basis. D3 is good, but you can overdose it.

 

[jessica]

What are the temps of your cage? May be trying to escape cause its too hot?
Is it just one eye or both? You gotta get better pics and more info on your enclosure.

 

[pssh]

Please fill out this form

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Pictures are helpful

 

[pssh]

They need calcium very regularly, you can't skip out on that.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

That Reptiglo lamp isn't producing much of the correct spectrum UV. The best tube fluorescent UV producing lamp is the ReptiSun 5.0. NOT the compact coil type, the linear tube type. So, in the mean time until you can replace the UV light try to get your cham out in true sunlight if the weather permits. It can make quite a difference fairly quickly.

The test people always refer to is here which rates the output of the Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 and Arcadia 5.0 D3 Reptile as higher than the Reptisun 5.0 you recommend. Why not recommend them?
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

You need 3 types of dust...calcium with D3, calcium without D3, and herp vitamins. I prefer using Miner All with D3 as a daily source of calcium (light dusting, not a heavy coating), but others use slightly different brands.

Please explain why you NEED 3 types of dust? Considering it is possible to overdose on Vitamin A and D3 but not realistically possible to overdose on pure calcium it would be safer just to use pure calcium and get the D3 from the mixture of calcium + UVb.

 

[Miss Lily]

ok thanks, what about Sticky Tongue?
I opened the blinds that my chameleon's cage is by to let it sunlight.
she sees the trees outside adn tries to escape mos tof the time when the blinds are open so I keep them closed

The UV in sunlight cannot pass through glass. To get proper UV the cham needs to be outside in the sun (with access to shade too, of course).

 

[Carlton]

The test people always refer to is here which rates the output of the Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 and Arcadia 5.0 D3 Reptile as higher than the Reptisun 5.0 you recommend. Why not recommend them?
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

Well, depending on where you live not all those bulbs may be available. The ReptiSun 10.0 is more intense so better for "desert" species. The only cham I would consider a true desert species is the namaqua. I haven't used the 10.0 for chams, even my lowland species. I haven't used the Arcadia. If it's better than a ReptiSun 5.0 and doesn't damage eyesight that's great.

Please explain why you NEED 3 types of dust? Considering it is possible to overdose on Vitamin A and D3 but not realistically possible to overdose on pure calcium it would be safer just to use pure calcium and get the D3 from the mixture of calcium + UVb.

Some brands of herp calcium dust contain higher percentages of D3 in their formulations. More and more keepers are choosing to alternate plain calcium with one that contains the D3 to avoid overdosing. According to what I've read here MinerAll +D3 contains a lower percentage of D3 so that is less of a concern. I may not be up on all the most current Ca/Phos/D3 science, but I've never heard that a UV light alone will permit the cham to metabolize calcium without some dietary D3. If I am wrong please correct me!

 

[mwebb]

Does he have puss in his eye or is he just keeping it closed ? if he has any goo in it is an infection. When they have a vitamin a deficiency thay start closing one eye and then both as it gets worse. and that usualy starts at about 6 to 8 months of age from my experience. Jim at chameleon company has a sheet on it and i am sure he has shared it with the fourm.

 

[mwebb]

Closed eye

Does he have puss in it or is he just closing it. if he has goo in it he could have an eye infetion. If he is closing on and then starts closing both he might have an vitamin a deficiency and that usauly starts about 6 to 8 month. Jim at chameleon company has a sheet on it and has probable posted it on the fourm.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

Some brands of herp calcium dust contain higher percentages of D3 in their formulations. More and more keepers are choosing to alternate plain calcium with one that contains the D3 to avoid overdosing. According to what I've read here MinerAll +D3 contains a lower percentage of D3 so that is less of a concern. I may not be up on all the most current Ca/Phos/D3 science, but I've never heard that a UV light alone will permit the cham to metabolize calcium without some dietary D3. If I am wrong please correct me!

I am led to believe it's the combination of Calcium in the diet with UVb radiation which allows the production of Vitamin D3. (I probably should check this.)

The problem I have with a lot of this advice is I don't see real science backing up the suggestions, which are often taught as the only way to do things. I've seen figures about calcium/phosphorus ratios and suchlike but that still leaves plenty of questions unanswered. How much D3 does a chameleon need? How much can it absorb? How effective are supplements in providing this? Then would Vitamin A be more effectively (and safely) provided through plant matter containing this nutrient rather than an artificial supplement? I've seen useful information in comparing brands and suchlike but this still doesn't say how much is actually absorbed by the chameleon.

Human nutrition still isn't an 'exact science' that we know every single detail of. From my perspective, this calls into question how definitive an answer can be given in relation to chameleons (an animal which a lot less is known about)?

Then there's a lot of variables the advice doesn't account for. How much of the supplement will still be on the feeder insect by the time the chameleon eats it? Then not every chameleon eats the same amount of insects so it may not be appropriate to use the same quantity of supplements? Then does a Meller Chameleon require the same supplementing schedule as a smaller species of chameleon?

The lady who owns my local exotic pet shop, who is a Zoologist told me she only sells pure calcium as it's a lot safer than it is to use other supplements to which there is a risk of an animal overdosing on. Would this not be a sensible approach when giving advice to inexperienced keepers?

I'm not calling people's expertise into question here, I just would like more solid answers based on real evidence.


In relation to lights, Zoo Med isn't available at all locally to me. I'm led to believe that some UK shops have had problems with suppliers of Zoo Med. Arcadia is available at similar price range Zoo Med on this website and is rated as higher output by that test.

http://www.petclubuk.com/sp/reptile...strip-lights/arcadia-d3-reptile-lamp-18-/2034
http://www.petclubuk.com/sp/reptile...hts/zoo-med-reptisun-50-uvb-18-x-1---15w/2731

I also heard people say that a linear UV strip wont give output as high as the sun (even in the shade).

 

[pssh]

The reason people suggest giving d3 a few times a month is because the tubes don't produce anywhere near as much uv as the sun. The d3 is to give them a little extra to make sure they're getting enough. They also recomend not giving d3 if your chameleon regularly gets natural sun light. It isn't an exact science, but this is what we've found works in keeping them healthy.

Different species do require different dusting schedules, but on this site we mainly see veileds and panthers, so most people who are new or inexpierienced in anything but veileds and panthers just recomend the 'normal' schedule. I am not expierienced in anything but veileds and panthers, so I couldn't give you much more information than that. Though I'm sure someone else could.

 

[OntarioLizardman]

Rexandrain- Welcome to the forums friend! I hope the best for your cham

do you live in an area where its not too cold to put his cage outside during the day? it truly amazing what natural sunlight can do for a chameleon with problems. They are really dependant upon that. If possible, see if you can put him outside, if its not too cold and theres some shade for him. PM if you have any other questions too, and see if you can get better pictures for us too look at.

once again Welcome!!

 

[RexandRain]

Does he have puss in his eye or is he just keeping it closed ? if he has any goo in it is an infection. When they have a vitamin a deficiency thay start closing one eye and then both as it gets worse. and that usualy starts at about 6 to 8 months of age from my experience. Jim at chameleon company has a sheet on it and i am sure he has shared it with the fourm.

he just closes his Eye from time to time. I noticed that when he is by the window he has both eyes open. Does he need more Vitamin D then?

The reason people suggest giving d3 a few times a month is because the tubes don't produce anywhere near as much uv as the sun. The d3 is to give them a little extra to make sure they're getting enough. They also recomend not giving d3 if your chameleon regularly gets natural sun light. It isn't an exact science, but this is what we've found works in keeping them healthy.

his cage is by a window with the shades opened most of the time unfortunatly he gets only about 3-5 hours of sun a day since it is getting to be winter in my area I cannot take him outside.

 

[RexandRain]

*bump*.....

 

[VonSockthroat]

If the window isn't open, he's not getting those UVB rays; the glass window filters out UVB.