Need help now please

C

clairf

New Member
Something is dreadfully wrong with my Cham boy - forgive me not having time to fill in all the info but I think he is dying and need any help in trying to save him.
All normal until two hours ago then regurgitated last locust. An hour ago, was moving up to his sleeping area and just seemed to flop to the side...didn't use tail to save himself...only just got into viv in time to catch him. He grabbed my hand and came out as he usually does but with each minute that past he got weaker and weaker and withing 10 mins couldn't grip at all. Quickly went to get him under his heat but he went wont grab the vines, legs just hanging either side, can't wont balance his body..just rolls off.
Have taken back out and atm he is laying on his side in a warm towel on my lap, not moving and apart from lifting his head and taking a large breath every 3/4 mins or when I move him he is comatose
He is a yemen...4 years...hydrated ( and I have dropper fed water too )
I'm in the UK and it's 2am atm. Anything I can do ? Please:(
 
Take him to the vet in the AM.

People can't even begin to really give you a good answer or even a solid guess if you don't fill out the help sheet.

It's 2 am over there. Unless you have a hot date (at 2 am we call it a booty call) you have time to fill that out. What else are you doing this late.
 
Hi
No from one of UK's live food farms. My baby boy eats theirs all the time although today is the first time big boy has moved over to this supplier...but even so both are from the same source... share packaging / transit and housing
 
So Sorry....

I'm so sorry about this. From your description it is too late. If he is only breathing every 3 minutes or so and seems comatose then he is in the final stage of death. Spend these last moments with him. You are obviously going to feel an enormous sense of loss and need to grieve over him. After a bit though, you need to see if you can figure out the cause of this. Please come back to the forum and run through everything you can think of with us. Things that come to my mind are poisoning or a stroke. At four years of age he is getting into the upper range of life for a Veiled. There may have been some signs of slight slowdown in eating or activity. Older chams often go into renal failure. Anyway, I'm very sorry about your boy. Please come back later and go over things with us.
 
More thoughts....

After your further posts it sounds like poisoning is out. Stroke/cardiac issue is still possible because of the sudden onset and widespread effect on body mobility. Don't give him any more water. He will just aspirate it in his condition. I think making him comfortable and being with him is all you can do for him. If he was a person he could be rushed to the emergency room and put on life support until a cause could be determined. That level or care is just not really available for a reptile. The breathing situation you described tells me that his systems are shutting down rapidly. The regurgitation of the locust could be a sign that his digestive tract had already started to shut down prior to all the other systems. Gosh I hate to be so harsh in my outlook for your boy. I know the pain this must be causing you to read my words. It pains me to write them :(
 
ok

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 3 ft wide x 4 ft high, wood sides...mesh front and top.
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? !2 hrs on / off. Repglo 5 & 60 wat basking lamp
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking 95, ambient 80 floor 70
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? 60-65%. Live plants, dripper and twice daily misting
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Habiscus, fiscus, nasturcians, umbrella shaped one ( the allowed one can't find correct speeling to hand ) pasion flower
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Against back wall, non traffic area, no fans, vents. Top to floor is 6ft
* Location - Where are you geographically located?UK


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?Yemen, male, 4.
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Twice daily and when ever he knocks to come out
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Adult / sub adult locusts...waxworm for treat...crickets but he mostly refuses. Gut loading is fresh cabbage, dandelion, watercress, bug feed, spring greens, mango, apple, orange and rocket
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? 4 days calcium, 2 vitamins
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Mist twice dailey for 5 mins a time. I see him drinking and he takes from squirter
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Creamy white then rich chocolate... firm
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

No point going on....he's gone :(
Thank you for answering and helping....just got to hope it's nothing my baby can catch now.......god I feel horrible now.....my lovely lovely chamie
 
Come back later....

Come back to this thread later. Especially if you have another cham. We can all go through everything and see if we can get some ideas. You could take him to a vet for a necropsy exam if your vet is skilled. He/she could maybe see something inside. It's time to grieve now. I'm so very sorry.
 
Such a sad thread,i am so sorry for your loss....at least you were with him at the end...sending hugs from N.I
 
My eyes are stinging and red...I tried sleeping but couldn't. It was so upsetting knowing he was just in a box alone. I just walked about the house carrying the box, not knowing where to put him for the rest of the night. I wrapped him in a towel and put a heat block in with him and laid his limbs carefully......isn't it wierd how we deal with this....it's not as if he knows or can feel anything. I need to leave him there until my family come home from work as they don't know yet and this is toture.
I can't close his eyes and regardless of what direction you look at him from, he seems to be staring straight at me....asking ? telling? I can't stop looking at him in the box. Asking myself...Did I do something wrong? Did I not do something right or quick enough ? Could I of prevented this in anyway. Was he going to die anyway or if I had had a spare hot tank ready he could of gone straight in and laid flat would it of changed anything?

In the cold light of day, the automatic morning routine was so painful.....having to disconect his viv from the electrics...no misting and all those locusts who can now fear nothing but me running out of cabbage ! Turning his light and heat off was so symbolic and heartbreaking. Am crying again now just typing this while flicking gaze across to his box. I feel guilty if I leave him alone in an empty room. Bet you all think I am mad.....
Gotta go all through it all again and again when family find out....

Every list of 'safe' plants says passiflora is safe - is this not the case :eek: because if not there are a lot of UK owners that need knowing and the makers of lists advised.

I have been reliving last few days....and do note that the day before ( although didn't seem relevant at the time - should I of done something about it:(....that he only seemed comfortably mobile when moving horizontally, was not happy or as confident climbing and was did tend to stay going forward and back along just one branch....I just assumed this was what he wanted to do that day. He was eating and drinking ok, everything was normal but now...now I am blaming myself for not thinking this may of ment something...

Certainly after the regurgitation the first sign was him not being right was trying to get to bed and not able to get up a vine and transfer to another. Actually the branch he had gone to is one he NEVER uses, but on this occasion he climbed down to it and sat there for an hour before turning and trying to climb back up. He almost acted blind because he was feeling for anything to climb onto, grabbing in the dark for something, anything, holding on only by back feet. Unusally he didn't use his tail at all. He ended up desperatly and panickly hanging onto a trailing plant ( again not the norm ) and even took one of his back legs onto it. He had no balance and was wobbly. While hanging onto the branch with just one leg and not using tail he seemed to start to roll sideways, not being able to right himself so just dropped while hanging on with one limb and no tail..started panicking and flailing with front legs and thats when I rushed and caught him before he fell. I am happy that if I hadent done that he would of fallen as wasn't able to stop or protect himself.

He was happy to stay on my hand and climbed along my arm and out of viv, climbing onto and over me for a couple of minutes, climbed up under my chin ( his fav place ) and seemed ok. Then he grasped me with back legs, with a vigor and strength I have never felt...it actually pierced and hurt.
Then he ' calmed ' and closed his eyes ( PANIC ). I immediatly returned to under his heat..onto his basking branch but he didn't try to leave my hand, didn't reach for or try to climb onto it. I gently put him on myself but all his legs hung loosley either side as he rested on his belly. He made no attempt to grasp the branch nor save himself as he rolled off. I took him out again and initiated movement but he kept stopping and rested his head / chin in the palm of my hand and closed eyes again.

Simultainiously (sp ) his limbs stopped working. He could move them himself, as in if I held his legs I got a movement reaction, they wern't paraylised....but he had no strength or grip in them and didn't voluntarily move them.
As each minute passed he got weaker and weaker..closed his eyes more often and for longer and had no interest in moving, just happy to lay down in my hand.
I am questioning myself on everything now...the obvious, the stupid everything...did I thoroughly wash his new hasbiscus before adding....did the stress of adding a new vine have anything to do with it?

One thing I am now aware off now that that might help....the last 2 weeks when he climbed up my arm / chest to get under my chin, when he got there I heard what I interpreted as a baby pretend hiss, just a tiny sound, so sutble I barely noticed and always explainable....was outside in the sun and a bird flew over...in the house and something was present or happening that would explain a half hearted hiss. What I can now say with absolute certainty is that was the noise he made this morning while gasping for breath every 3/4 minutes. Obviously when he was under my chin I couldn't see him only hear...and wasn't alarmed anyway as it sounded like a half hearted hiss but now..after last night...did I miss a massive warning sign of cardiac problems? The effort of climbing to my chin ?

Oh hell, as much as this is theraputic for me to type it is leaving me feeling guilty and irresponsible at possibly missing possible signs.
Oh I don't know.....I just know I am sitting next to his dark empty cage..:(
The speed....' normal ' to dead in less than 2 hours. This is absolute purgatory.
Thank you for listening...x
 
Clairf....i am no expert (by any means at all)but one thing i have learned from this forum is that when our beloved chams start to go down hill they go fast!and no i don't think you are mad...you are grieving for some one you loved and cared for very much so what you are feeling is absolutely right and just....I hope you are feeling better soonXX
 
Clairf, this is so sad. Sounds just like what happened to my dear Lily only a few weeks ago. I knew she was poorly but from showing the first symptoms she only made it a further 5 days. Her last couple of days sound exactly the same as your cham. I know exactly what you are going through right now. When Lily died I sat with her on my lap all afternoon. I cried so much my eyes were so swollen the next day it was hard to see. I even wrapped Lily up in a tea towel and put her back in her cage overnight just in case there was a small chance that she was still here.:(

It's amazing how you get so attached to these critters, but as I've seen so many times on here - once they show signs of illness than can be gone in a matter of hours, and it makes me so sad to read other's stories, as I know exactly how those people are feeling.

The empty cage is so hard. I didn't want to move everything and clean, but at the same time I didn't want to leave it as Lily had left it either. Took me a copuple of days to clean bit by bit. I put a flowering houseplant in there to help fill the empty space. I wasn't going to buy another cham straight away, but the whole family agreed that it wasn't the same without my 'Bug-eyed Lily-monster'. I got a new baby a couple of weeks after Lily died and it really helped to get the cage ready for a baby cham.

Thinking of you,

Tiff
 
You only show signs of sanity, and i commend your courage and compassion towards your cham. I assure you, your pain and love does not go un-noticed. A death of a cham triggers a dark moment for many users on this forum, you are not alone.

Stay strong.
 
such a sad thread to read:(
take the time to mourn your special one and try not to analyze too much.i know what you mean about walking the house with him when i lost my missy i wrapped her in tissue but had to keep going to look at her to reasure myself she had really gone.
sending hugs your way
 
Sorry

This sounds exactly what happened to my chameleon, the sad thing is how long they fight to live. What type of substrate do you use, it might have been a bowl obstruction.
 
It's obvious you loved your cham very much. I have no doubts that he had a great life with such a caring parent. I'm sorry for your loss.
 
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