New Brookesia owner. Please help with ID and any tips and tricks for acclimation

[yoteango]

A few months ago I posted a list of plants that can be found in Madagascar. Mostly ignored that list and and turned it into a generic terrarium with the hope that I'd be able to put some Brookesia in it eventually. It's been growing for a while now. A front opening 40 gallon.

On Saturday I got a notification that LLLReptile had a pair of Brookesia in stock. Despite their reputation, I jumped at the chance and a few minutes later had ordered it (before any of you fine folk could), and today the precious little things arrived, smaller than I realized. I'm hoping they are in mostly good health, but I'm not sure yet if they are. One is active and eating fruit flies and seems fine, the larger one seemed dead at first but climbed into a corner and hasn't been opening its eyes too much. I'm hoping it's still waking up and not too hungry or stressed from the journey, but it hasn't been active otherwise in the last couple hours. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

They were ordered as B. superciliaris, but were labeled as B. stumpffi. All I'm really hoping is that they're the same species and one is male and the other female. I did not weigh them, but one is much smaller than the other.
Could you please help me with identifying species, sex, and maybe even age? Other tips and tricks would be good, I've been having to relearn some stuff.


In exchange please accept these pictures.

Thank you

 

[janjan20]

I love these little guys! Hopefully they both settle and perk up, we don’t see enough of this species on the forum so it’s great you were able to get them.
These members may be able to help, @Mendez, @javadi.

 

[MissSkittles]

So tiny and fragile! Really hoping that you have much success with them both. They’re beautiful.

 

[Mendez]

It looks like a 1.1 group of Brookesia stumpffi to me. The larger one is male, and the smaller one is female. You can tell which one the male is based on the thickness of the tail base—he's packing hemipenes for sure!

In the Brookesia genus, females tend to get a fair bit larger than males, or at least that's what I have seen in my experience working with superciliaris. The female doesn't look gravid to me. But that's not to say she won't get gravid soon under the right conditions. @javadi would be able to speak more on breeding size and whatnot. Regardless, she has some growing to do.

The cage looks great! But I would definitely add some more branches for them to climb on.

 

[Mendez]

Here’s a Brookesia superciliaris that I hatched out last year. Since you shared some pics, I’ll share some too

 

[elizaann2]

Such a cool species!!!

 

[yoteango]

Thank you. @Mendez
Looks like I guessed correctly on their gender. She seems much smaller and younger than the other, so I guess I missed out on any wild babies from her.
I'll have to find some good branches. I had a cute little pitcher plant that was growing nicely, but took it out for obvious reasons.
I listened to the recent Brookesia podcast and realized I might have messed up putting too much food in there. Now I can't tell if the big one has eaten or not. I saw him stick his tongue out in the pre-attack, but shoot but he also seems very shy, so hopefully that's all it is. They both seem a bit more active already. I was a little worried and they had their eyes closed sometimes the first day or so. But I can't tell if that's because they're tired, scared of a giant me watching them too closely, or a bigger issue. I'm sure they've got a lot of stress from their recent travel adventures.

But so far it seems very similar to a hatchling panther.

 

[yoteango]

A quick update: I weighed them both a few days apart and their weight increased slightly. Didn't weigh them on arrival, but still seems like promising news and I have seen them both eat.

 

[yoteango]

So I've had them for almost a couple months now. They seem to be doing good. The female is growing fast, but I was most worried about the male.
Food for them I've thrown in there include mealworms, waxworms, waxworm moths, black soldier fly larva, a black soldier fly, and some small mystery beetles that are now in my dubia bin.


Here are their weights. It's the best evidence I have that they are doing fine. I didn't get their shipped weights unfortunately.

And some pictures. I like her little orange patch on her neck. The female had some interesting colors up today.

 

[Mendez]

Food for them I've thrown in there include mealworms, waxworms, waxworm moths, black soldier fly larva, a black soldier fly, and some small mystery beetles that are now in my dubia bin.

Are you feeding them crickets? They seem to really enjoy those. I've had some success feeding them little kenyan roaches (adults stay really small). But primarily for the last year and a half, I've primarily been feeding crickets. My oldest pygmy is a male Brookesia superciliaris that is pushing 3+ years. I got him as an adult and I've had him for 2.5 years.

They'll start to pack on weight once you start feeding crickets (~quarter inch crickets for adults). I had a female that would eat wax worms, but the male would refuse them. They both go nuts for free-roaming crickets.

It's cool to see you recording their weights. I haven't seen anyone do that before, but I like it! Keep it up

 

[yoteango]

Oh yeah, I noticed my male refused the waxworms also, maybe the BSFL and other worms. I know he's been eating something, but not actually sure what.
I haven't tried crickets yet. I'll try and get some soon. I've just been scared of escapees because of my living situation.

Thanks. I started recording the weights because I was worried at first, and also wanted to try and get an estimate on the female's age. Based on the growth rate and initial size, I figure it's pretty young. She's definitely gotten bigger though.

 

[MzLaurie]

Wow they are so tiny! When buying a pair you must consider the fact that they are from the same clutch if you intend on breeding them when they are older. In the meantime I wish you the best of luck on getting those two healthy and grown. My last vet said they have definitely seen inbreeding problems (mainly respitory issues) with breaded dragons and with the influx of interest in chameleons they anticipate it will happen with them too. Anyway, my fingers and toes are crossed hoping your sweet little ones survive ok.

 

[Mendez]

Most pygmy chameleons are wild-caught, so likely there isn't an issue with inbreeding at the moment. I'm sure this will change if Madagascar ever closes like Australia did and no fresh blood comes in.

 

[Mendez]

Oh yeah, I noticed my male refused the waxworms also, maybe the BSFL and other worms. I know he's been eating something, but not actually sure what.
I haven't tried crickets yet. I'll try and get some soon. I've just been scared of escapees because of my living situation.

Thanks. I started recording the weights because I was worried at first, and also wanted to try and get an estimate on the female's age. Based on the growth rate and initial size, I figure it's pretty young. She's definitely gotten bigger though.

I haven't had a problem with escapee crickets. If you're super careful, the chances of escapees are reduced. I just get a big bin for them so they can't jump or climb out. Then when I go to collect them and put them in little deli cup with a lid, I do everything over the large bin. Even if a cricket jumps, it is unlikely to jump out of the bin.

If you give crickets a big enough space instead of cramming them in cricket keepers, they aren't too bad to deal with.

 

[BleuSaphir]

Any updates on them?

 

[yoteango]

I am lucky in that they both seem to be doing fine. When I got them, the male had his eyes closed a concerning amount, but now I'm not as concerned. He is still the more shy of the pair. The female has grown quite a bit, although I haven't weighed them in a while. I can still tell them apart pretty easily.

In terms of breeding, I haven't noticed anything. They usually are not near each other.

 

[BleuSaphir]

Wishing you success though! I’m sure you get something out of them.

 

[yoteango]

The chameleons seem to be doing fine.

Unfortunately, I found a single dead egg, and none others yet. I do not know how long its been laid. I'm going to assume it was her first ever clutch. The good news is that it means I must be doing something right, the bad news is that I'm doing something wrong, and it's a shame for such a finite resource to be wasted. My gut is saying that the soil was far too wet. It was near soaking and I kept putting off draining it. I'll post a proper husbandry review later. On the other hand, I'd rather catch now and fix than later if she has large clutch sizes. And I need to make it suitable for in situ incubation because I can't count on finding where the eggs get hid.
I found the egg very collapsed with worms and various little things eating it up. If I were to guess, I'd say the baby itself was developing well, and maybe ready to hatch. Mostly what I saw was grey and looked like a baby chameleon.

Except for the obvious hindsight of the female looking like a balloon and then a deflated balloon, I didn't notice any signs of breeding before hand, not to say they weren't there, but I didn't notice them.

Also I am curious about how long roughly it may take for her to lay again, if anybody has that info.

 

[yoteango]

Found some more eggs. One was viable, as shown by the baby below. It was not like that last night. Now I'm in a bit of a panic as I did not expect it to hatch and so soon. I have it in a temporary bin and I'll leave it alone in there for the day as I get supplies and as it hatches. I think I'll leave it in something separate for a while otherwise I'd probably never see it again.

 

[GrannyK]

Congrats and best of luck! I know nothing about babies but excitedly nervous with you!!