summoner12
Avid Member
It is interesting. I just don't like that it is giving people wild ideas on what to 'cross'..... does anyone notice how apes and chimps don't go hooking up?
NEW C. gracilis x calyptratus hybrid
- Thread starter Frankcham
- Start date
azgnoinc
New Member
I'll let all the experts here have their debates & pass along a friendly and well deserved congratulations - I hope all the babies are healthy and happy - regardless of what your plans are with them.
I do have a question for the more scientific minded folks here though, and that is- If this is truly the first of it's kind, would that not give the "creator" the rights to naming this new breed/species or whatever genetic moniker is appropriate here???
Congrats again & keep posting pics of the babies!!
I do have a question for the more scientific minded folks here though, and that is- If this is truly the first of it's kind, would that not give the "creator" the rights to naming this new breed/species or whatever genetic moniker is appropriate here???
Congrats again & keep posting pics of the babies!!
Frankcham
New Member
Thank you appreciate that =)....
That is a good a questions would any experts be kind enough to answer that?
summoner12
Avid Member
Don't Try This At Home
Chris, we are very fortunate to have you around on this forum. You bring such clarity!
I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment's... but I would like to highlight some bits that I think people should pay close attention to.
I am not attacking the OPer... I just want people who get some crazy idea to try this, to rethink it, to fully understand why it is not a good idea to do it intentionally.
Chris, we are very fortunate to have you around on this forum. You bring such clarity!
I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment's... but I would like to highlight some bits that I think people should pay close attention to.
I am not attacking the OPer... I just want people who get some crazy idea to try this, to rethink it, to fully understand why it is not a good idea to do it intentionally.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Kevin
Chimps are a type of great ape. I concur though I do not endorse selectively breeding hybrids. We should have stable cb populations of non hybrids first (which we are still far from accomplishing) before designer or just hybrids in general should even be considered.
Jeremy
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DavidBuchan
Guest
Chimps are apes
. Also you and I are apes.....and we have some Neanderthal DNA too........cross breeding between species occurs in nature........even between human species.......I still think it's irresponsible to do it deliberately, of course
chendy
New Member
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Chimps are apes
I still think it's irresponsible to do it deliberately, of course
Humans are not considered one of the Great Apes. If I recall correctly people are considered hominids. The great apes are Chimps (plus Bonobos), Gorillas and Orangutans.
This thread is making me want to watch the entire X Men series of movies.
I know hybrids are not mutants. Just the talk of genetic possibilities.
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DavidBuchan
Guest
Humans are not considered one of the Great Apes. If I recall correctly people are considered hominids. The great apes are Chimps (plus banobo's spelling?), Gorillas and Orangutans.
This thread is making me want to watch the entire X Men series of movies.
It's Bonobos, and the word 'Ape' is quite a loose term for taxonomic purposes
Hominoidea contains two families of living (extant) species:
Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes.
Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, common chimpanzees, bonobos and humans.[1][2] Alternatively, the hominidae family are collectively described as the great apes.[3][4][5][6]
Members of the superfamily are called hominoids (not to be confused with "hominids" or "hominins").
Some or all hominoids are also called "apes". However, the term "ape" is used in several different senses. It has been used as a synonym for "monkey" or for any tailless primate with a humanlike appearance.[7] Thus the Barbary macaque, a kind of monkey, is popularly called the "Barbary ape" to indicate its lack of a tail. Biologists have used the term "ape" to mean a member of the superfamily Hominoidea other than humans,[3] or more recently to mean all members of the superfamily Hominoidea, so that "ape" becomes another word for "hominoid".[6][8]
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Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
It's Bonobos, and the word 'Ape' is quite a loose term for taxonomic purposes
Hominoidea contains two families of living (extant) species:
Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes.
Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, common chimpanzees, bonobos and humans.[1][2] Alternatively, the hominidae family are collectively described as the great apes.[3][4][5][6]
Members of the superfamily are called hominoids (not to be confused with "hominids" or "hominins").
Some or all hominoids are also called "apes". However, the term "ape" is used in several different senses. It has been used as a synonym for "monkey" or for any tailless primate with a humanlike appearance.[7] Thus the Barbary macaque, a kind of monkey, is popularly called the "Barbary ape" to indicate its lack of a tail. Biologists have used the term "ape" to mean a member of the superfamily Hominoidea other than humans,[3] or more recently to mean all members of the superfamily Hominoidea, so that "ape" becomes another word for "hominoid".[6][8]
I have always been taught a told that the Great Apes and Hominids are related however are separate and not considered the the same group of species with the point that they should be designated as different groups. Nice quick google!
I corrected the spelling error Bonobos.
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DavidBuchan
Guest
It might be an American/British thing? Like with Turtles and Tortoises and Terrapins..........if only we actually could draw thick black lines between species it would be so much easier
blue bits copied direct from Wikipedia
summoner12
Avid Member
Yeah i messed up... sorry lol
Chimps are apes
I still think it's irresponsible to do it deliberately, of course
between human species? you mean apes mating with humans or human species mating with other human species?
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
LOL its all good
. People mating with apes this thread is starting to turn into somewhat of a comedy. I think David is talking taxonomic relations not actual breeding between the two.
Kent67
Retired Moderator
He's talking about Neanderthal DNA in the genome of modern Europeans (evidence of cross breeding between two human species in the past).
By the way, I just thought I'd mention that as soon as we've taken these animals out of the wild and put them in cages, nothing from there on is "natural." Even if it's breeding gracilis to gracilis or calyp to calyp, it is still human selection. Since there is no possibility that either of those species or their captive-produced hybrids are ever going to be released back into the wild I don't see any problem with them in captivity. I also don't see this becoming an epidemic of hybrids either. How long have calyptratus been bred in the US? Seventeen? Eighteen years? And these are the first hybrids (other than crossed locales ) produced in the US from them?
By the way, I just thought I'd mention that as soon as we've taken these animals out of the wild and put them in cages, nothing from there on is "natural." Even if it's breeding gracilis to gracilis or calyp to calyp, it is still human selection. Since there is no possibility that either of those species or their captive-produced hybrids are ever going to be released back into the wild I don't see any problem with them in captivity. I also don't see this becoming an epidemic of hybrids either. How long have calyptratus been bred in the US? Seventeen? Eighteen years? And these are the first hybrids (other than crossed locales
) produced in the US from them?
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DavidBuchan
Guest
burnedrose
New Member
Congrats on the new babies! As much as everyone is hatin' on this, it seems it was a legit accident with surprisingly happy results so congrats and keep us updated (which means pictures. lots and lots of pictures).
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
He's talking about Neanderthal DNA in the genome of modern Europeans (evidence of cross breeding between two human species in the past).
By the way, I just thought I'd mention that as soon as we've taken these animals out of the wild and put them in cages, nothing from there on is "natural." Even if it's breeding gracilis to gracilis or calyp to calyp, it is still human selection. Since there is no possibility that either of those species or their captive-produced hybrids are ever going to be released back into the wild I don't see any problem with them in captivity. I also don't see this becoming an epidemic of hybrids either. How long have calyptratus been bred in the US? Seventeen? Eighteen years? And these are the first hybrids (other than crossed locales
I hear you I think the main point and my preference is to encourage breeding of some other genus's first before breeding hybrids becomes a consideration. Such as more Calumma (Parsonii especially), Bradypodion and Kinyongia. I'm not big of a fan of hybrid snakes however seeing an occasional hybrid chameleon would be somewhat neat.
Frankcham
New Member
Here are some pictures of the babies. As you can see some of them have dots some have strips some have both and some are green. One of them had turned blue lastnight then turned back to a light green which i thought was pretty cool . Well hope you enjoy the pictures
Attachments
Fearaffect
Avid Member
The look awesome.....feed those little ones good.....
If u get a chance, take a pic of the one when it turns blue....
If u get a chance, take a pic of the one when it turns blue....
Frankcham
New Member
The look awesome.....feed those little ones good.....
If u get a chance, take a pic of the one when it turns blue....
Thank you...and I wanted to but my phone was dead and my camera was at home =( next time tho =)
