New member with new babies

[TheTiffn8r]

Hey everyone! So the BF and I did a spur of the moment thing and bought 2 (because they were half price) veiled chameleons today from PetCo. We got a chameleon starter kit and were researching while in the store and we are so flipping excited. The chick at the store guessed they are around 6 months old. No idea how to really tell. I have been looking up ways to determine age and gender. I posted them as my avatar. And attached images of them each on this thread. They are too cute.
If I had to guess I would say one is 6 inches and the other is 5 inches. We haven't picked names yet but we are super excited. I just get worried because I know some pet store creatures don't always live very long. So I am being super cautious. We set up there house with vines and leaves and the double lamp, with a water dish, a food dish, wet leaves for drinking, moss and a log, as well as humidity and temp gadgets. We tossed a bunch of crickets covered in vitamins and calcium in there and we watched them eat. I'm just worried I am missing something. I want to get them to live a long life and I get nervous with pet store buys.
This first one is the bigger of the 2. Closer to 6" thinking about the name trogdor. Let's pattern going on this one.
The second one is a little smaller, definitely thinner, and we think it's closer to 5". The patterns on that one are pretty cool and it has changed shades more then the first one.

 

[KapitalJ]

Welcome to the forum...

I would suggest:
* taking out the water dish, chams don't drink from a bowl. (still water)
* taking out the moss, cham might accidentally ingest while trying to eat a feeder
*get some live plants in there to help with humidity as well as places to drink from (choose from a cham safe list)
*probably not the best idea to house them together

I would fill this out https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/ and people will be better able to assist you knowing all of the facts.

J.

 

[Virgil1972]

Do not house them together that will stress them out which shortens their life span. The cham in the first pic is dehydrated. Hard to tell about the second pic it is a little fuzzy.

 

[TheTiffn8r]

Thank you!

 

[TheTiffn8r]

Welcome to the forum...

I would suggest:
* taking out the water dish, chams don't drink from a bowl. (still water)
* taking out the moss, cham might accidentally ingest while trying to eat a feeder
*get some live plants in there to help with humidity as well as places to drink from (choose from a cham safe list)
*probably not the best idea to house them together

I would fill this out https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/ and people will be better able to assist you knowing all of the facts.

J.

Hi there! We were going off what the pet store had going on and what they pamphlet they provided suggested we do. It suggested a hiding place with moss for shedding their skin, as well as aiding in humidifing. The water dish I knew they would not drink out of, but I wasn't sure if they would ever get in the dish for bathing/cooling down purposes? But it will aid in humidifing just as well. I plan on getting a misting bottle and more live plants today after work.

Do so just fill out the form and post it as a new thread?

Thanks so much!

 

[TheTiffn8r]

Do not house them together that will stress them out which shortens their life span. The cham in the first pic is dehydrated. Hard to tell about the second pic it is a little fuzzy.

Hello! We bought them together so we didn't know we should house them separately. They don't seem to be going near each other. Why does it stress them out? I am so interested in learning.

Also, how can you notice the dehydration? The patches of dry skin and the ribs?

 

[KapitalJ]

Just copy and paste here.

The water dish will become a death trap for wandering feeders. also a great way for bacteria to start. Unless you are dumping it every day. Not sure a cham will go in the water dish...

Live plants (pothos is a great choice and an affordable plant) will help a great deal with humidity also provide many drinking spots once the cage has been misted. You should definitely get a misting bottle.

Pet stores are often well rounded in animal care, but lack the species specific knowledge you will find here.

Best of luck!
J.

 

[absolutbill]

Congrats on your two new little ones! I'll try to address all of your questions the best that I can:
1. They NEED to be separated - different cages, and they CANNOT see each other. Chameleons are solitary - seeing each other will stress them out and shorten their lifespan greatly. One will become dominate, taking all the food, best basking spot, etc, and the other will suffer in addition to the stress of being near another chameleon. While pet stores house them together and certain species can live together, veileds cannot.
2. The first pic shows a dehydrated chameleon. Look at the space around his eye and see that it's sunk in. That's a major sign that your chameleon needs water. Another way is to check their urates (poop). It needs to be solid with white at the end - like bird poop. If you see yellow that's another sign that your chameleon needs water. They can be hand-misted or you can get an automatic mister (I highly suggest that so that you have more freedom with your day). For now, just search "shower" to get detailed notes on how to give your chameleon a shower safely. That's a great way to re-hydrate them. Another is to buy hornworms for them because they are mostly water.
3. The moist hide is for leopard geckos, not chameleons. It's not your fault, you were going on good faith by what you were told/provided. Chameleons are arboreal, so will not normally go to the ground and definitely not under a log. Regular misting and live plants in your cages will help to keep your humidity to high enough levels.
4. Please explain what you mean by "double lamp". Your chameleons will need both UVB as well as heat light bulbs. Your branches will need to be placed strategically so they can get close (but not close enough to burn themselves) to the heat light to warm themselves up, and also be in the UVB light path as well.
5. Please take a close-up shot of the back of their hind feet. What you are looking for is a little spur which will indicate if you have a boy. No spurs means you have a girl and then you will have to search "laying bin" to prepare your female for when she lays eggs. Remember she's like a chicken - she doesn't have to be bred to have eggs inside of her. They would just be infertile, but still need to be laid as if they were fertile.
6. As mentioned remove the water dish - it will attract bacteria and your chameleons will not go bathing in it. They just aren't genetically programmed to do that.

I think this will give you a good start for now. Fill out the How to Ask for Help link so we can spot anything else. Good luck and remember you are absolutely not the first person on here to receive bad advice from a pet store on raising chameleons, but we are all here to help you be successful!

 

[TheTiffn8r]

Thank you so much! This is some awesome info!

 

[Virgil1972]

Hello! We bought them together so we didn't know we should house them separately. They don't seem to be going near each other. Why does it stress them out? I am so interested in learning.

Also, how can you notice the dehydration? The patches of dry skin and the ribs?

They get very territorial and do not like being around each other. It will get worse as they get older. They will eventually start to fight with each other.

 

[ispeedonthe405]

We were going off what the pet store had going on and what they pamphlet they provided suggested we do.

Understandable, but Step 1 is to disregard pretty much everything you were told by PetCo. Instead, I would read the care sheets provided here in this site under Resources.

 

[TheTiffn8r]

I would fill this out https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/ and people will be better able to assist you knowing all of the facts.

J.

Chameleon Info:
* Your chameleons- 2 veiled chameleons. Guesstimate on age was 6 months. Not sure of the sex yet. Have had them for a little over 24 hours
* Handling - my boyfriend has held the larger one everyday, I keep telling him it stresses them out but he is too excited not to hold it.
* Feeding - We put an entire pack of crickets in yesterday, with calcium, D3, and repivite. They ate all of that in 24 hours. I would guess there was 15 -20 crickets. I just put a little bit of watermelon in there to see if they would eat it today. But they haven't touched it yet.
* Supplements - We got repivite and calcium with d3. We put both on the crickets for the first feeding.
* Watering - I got a misting bottle today, so I sprayed the housing unit for about 2 mins after I got home from work. The bigger one was licking the cage drinking.
* Fecal Description - One dropping had nothing noticeable and another had some yellow, not sure which one did what.
* History - They were caged together at PetCo

Cage Info:
* Cage Type - We got a screen chameleon kit from petco
* Lighting - the lighting came in the kit, it has one UVB and one heat lamp in a combo unit. We left it on a little longer then 12 hours today but we are trying to do a 7-7 type of routine.
* Temperature - we have a temp gauge that came in the kit. About halfway in the cage with the light on the highest I saw was 77 degrees. At night it is a little colder so we have a space heater on low to just keep the heat around 55-60
* Humidity - I bought a humidity gauge that was not in the kit and today when I checked it after misting it was at 70. I did a second misting this evening just to be safe because the space heater kills the humidity.
* Plants - I looked up a list of chameleon safe plants and picked up 2 ivy vines that were on the list as okay today and I just added them in.
* Placement - Our cage is in our living room. Not too much traffic as it is just me and the boyfriend. The space heater is near it. And we put it up on a dvd rack we have so the dog doesn't try me play with it. So around 4.5 feet off of the floor.
* Location - North east US

Current Problem - Just wondering about age and gender. I have been getting some awesome info so far. And plan to get a second cage ASAP so these 2 don't stress each other to death.

 

[TheTiffn8r]

Just a couple other shots I got today

 

[absolutbill]

OK, I read where you put the entire pack of crickets into the cage - are you gutloading the crickets first? You'll want to put the crickets into a cricket keeper, or small cage and feed them veggies and fruit (you can search gutloading to come up with a whole list of safe things to feed them), so they they are nutritionally sound before you feed them to your chameleons. Its cheaper to buy your crickets in bulk online and put them into a 10 gallon aquarium with some egg crates to give the crickets some vertical areas to climb so they don't crush each other (yes, they are that dumb). I have 2 adults - one is a veiled, and one is a panther, and I'll buy 500 1/2" crickets so that they have time to grow before they die off. While they are small I will feed off from the last batch of crickets, and once I am through with them then I move onto the new shipment which have had time to gutload.

As for gender, it looks like the picture of the chameleon walking to the right is a female since I can't see a spur. The spur will be very pronounced and visible. In the picture of the chameleon walking to the left the branch is in the way, and the last picture the foot it turned the wrong way. As for ages, well I'm guessing 3-5 months, but it's been awhile since I've had a young veiled. Once you separate them, make sure you have a laying bin in with the female. If she has eggs and can't lay them she can become eggbound and die - it's not pretty, trust me.

You say you're in the NE - how cold does your place get at night that you need a space heater overnight? Chameleons do well with a temperature drop overnight, and can tolerate down to 60 degrees with no issue. Also, you may want to consider a temperature gun - you aim it at a particular place you'd like to temp and it has a digital read on how hot it is. It also works for testing your air conditioner, and I think it's a must if you have multiple cages.

One last thing - I see you did a 2nd misting in the evening. You want the cage to be able to dry out overnight before your cham goes to sleep. A 7-7 cycle of lights is fine, so with that I'd suggest misting at 9AM, 12 noon, and then at 3PM. That's what my mister is set to do, and I mist heavy so it's set to 10 minutes each time. I just collect the extra water and use it on my plants outside so it's not a problem.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

 

[TheTiffn8r]

OK, I read where you put the entire pack of crickets into the cage - are you gutloading the crickets first? You'll want to put the crickets into a cricket keeper, or small cage and feed them veggies and fruit (you can search gutloading to come up with a whole list of safe things to feed them), so they they are nutritionally sound before you feed them to your chameleons. Its cheaper to buy your crickets in bulk online and put them into a 10 gallon aquarium with some egg crates to give the crickets some vertical areas to climb so they don't crush each other (yes, they are that dumb). I have 2 adults - one is a veiled, and one is a panther, and I'll buy 500 1/2" crickets so that they have time to grow before they die off. While they are small I will feed off from the last batch of crickets, and once I am through with them then I move onto the new shipment which have had time to gutload.

As for gender, it looks like the picture of the chameleon walking to the right is a female since I can't see a spur. The spur will be very pronounced and visible. In the picture of the chameleon walking to the left the branch is in the way, and the last picture the foot it turned the wrong way. As for ages, well I'm guessing 3-5 months, but it's been awhile since I've had a young veiled. Once you separate them, make sure you have a laying bin in with the female. If she has eggs and can't lay them she can become eggbound and die - it's not pretty, trust me.

You say you're in the NE - how cold does your place get at night that you need a space heater overnight? Chameleons do well with a temperature drop overnight, and can tolerate down to 60 degrees with no issue. Also, you may want to consider a temperature gun - you aim it at a particular place you'd like to temp and it has a digital read on how hot it is. It also works for testing your air conditioner, and I think it's a must if you have multiple cages.

One last thing - I see you did a 2nd misting in the evening. You want the cage to be able to dry out overnight before your cham goes to sleep. A 7-7 cycle of lights is fine, so with that I'd suggest misting at 9AM, 12 noon, and then at 3PM. That's what my mister is set to do, and I mist heavy so it's set to 10 minutes each time. I just collect the extra water and use it on my plants outside so it's not a problem.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

Hi there! Right now it has been a little cooler at night, around 50 F. We are heading to et a bother cage set up so I will have new pictures after so try and get the other lil guy in a better place to check the gender. I was going to look into a egg laying stuff while at the store.

As far as the crickets go, we didn't gut load them first. Like I said this was a spur of the moment thing and now we are so excited and doing research after the fact. It would have been so much easier to have done the research before hand. Lol!

And the temp gun is a great idea. I definitely want an automated mister as well because we are not home during the day.

Thanks for your awesome info and help!!

 

[TheTiffn8r]

OK, I read where you put the entire pack of crickets into the cage - are you gutloading the crickets first? You'll want to put the crickets into a cricket keeper, or small cage and feed them veggies and fruit (you can search gutloading to come up with a whole list of safe things to feed them), so they they are nutritionally sound before you feed them to your chameleons. Its cheaper to buy your crickets in bulk online and put them into a 10 gallon aquarium with some egg crates to give the crickets some vertical areas to climb so they don't crush each other (yes, they are that dumb). I have 2 adults - one is a veiled, and one is a panther, and I'll buy 500 1/2" crickets so that they have time to grow before they die off. While they are small I will feed off from the last batch of crickets, and once I am through with them then I move onto the new shipment which have had time to gutload.

As for gender, it looks like the picture of the chameleon walking to the right is a female since I can't see a spur. The spur will be very pronounced and visible. In the picture of the chameleon walking to the left the branch is in the way, and the last picture the foot it turned the wrong way. As for ages, well I'm guessing 3-5 months, but it's been awhile since I've had a young veiled. Once you separate them, make sure you have a laying bin in with the female. If she has eggs and can't lay them she can become eggbound and die - it's not pretty, trust me.

You say you're in the NE - how cold does your place get at night that you need a space heater overnight? Chameleons do well with a temperature drop overnight, and can tolerate down to 60 degrees with no issue. Also, you may want to consider a temperature gun - you aim it at a particular place you'd like to temp and it has a digital read on how hot it is. It also works for testing your air conditioner, and I think it's a must if you have multiple cages.

One last thing - I see you did a 2nd misting in the evening. You want the cage to be able to dry out overnight before your cham goes to sleep. A 7-7 cycle of lights is fine, so with that I'd suggest misting at 9AM, 12 noon, and then at 3PM. That's what my mister is set to do, and I mist heavy so it's set to 10 minutes each time. I just collect the extra water and use it on my plants outside so it's not a problem.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

I think this one is male?

 

[KapitalJ]

I think this one is male?

Your assumption is correct.

 

[absolutbill]

Yep, that's a boy you've got there! Don't forget to put up a visual barrier between the 2 cages when you get both set up. As for the laying bin, just search it on here for some good ideas. I used a small trash can that I found at Lowe's for a few bucks, and then filled it with sand. There are many other options, but you don't need fancy, just functional.

 

[TheTiffn8r]

I got a cool pump mister today. Works wicked awesome! Only $10 at walmart. I also got a 12inch plant pot that I will put top soil in when the time is right for my female.

 

[absolutbill]

Excellent - and now I'm guessing you are from Boston