New to Chameleons (NEED ADVICE!)

[timw1]

29 yrs. Law Enforcement and still counting

 

[WAMBO]

Thank you for your service for protecting us.

29 yrs. Law Enforcement and still counting

 

[Endlessness]

This is unbelievable. I don't even know where to begin.

If you are really willing to do what needs to be done then the first thing you need to do is get them into separate cages immediately. Chams can not be kept together, EVER. As you have already seen, they get aggressive towards each other. The only time they are introduced is when breeding and the female has to be receptive and willing. They need to not even see each other, so something need to be put between their cages to block the line of sight.

Second, you need to get that male to the vet. I'm pretty sure I can see a spur on one of the pictures that says it's a male but a picture of the back of his back feet will let us know for sure. He needs to go to the vet to have his tail looked at and make sure he doesn't have any broken bones. Of course he is walking slower...YOU THREW HIM INTO A WALL. Cams are VERY fragile. They do not like to be held and all he saw was a predator trying to pick him up, of course he is going to try and bite. Hold steady and don't jerk away or throw him. He's little.
Keeping his eyes closed is a sign of illness, it could be because he's got some internal injury from being thrown, another reason to get him to the vet.

On top of all of that, you need to read the care sheets that will give you what you need to care for them properly. Don't skip parts, read all os it and follow it to the letter. If you are going to have a chance with these guys, you're husbandry has to be spot on. Then I would suggest filling out the how to ask for help form that is in the Health Clinic forum and let us help you get things right.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

BOTH enclosures will need a lot more foliage and branches, they need lots of pathways and places to hide. They need plants that wind up and through the middle of the cage not just down the sides. Live is better for veilds as they like to eat the plants.

I am shocked at some of the things you have said and the way you have said them. I have never seen someone so flippant about treating an animal this way. DO NOT throw them, DO NOT poke them with a stick, DO NOT have them in the same enclosure. Like I said, I am shocked but I am willing to help. But please use common sense and realize these are fragile creatures with VERY specific needs.

Finally a non-toxic response. Thanks Peachypink for your informative response. I actually had already took Atog to the vet. They said he should be fine as long as the black part fell off, which worried me because I've read during my many hours of research that this infection can indeed spread. That's why I came here to the forum to begin with to make sure, only to then be attacked by so many of the most egotistical people I've ever communicated with.

As far as everything else you talked about, I couldn't help but notice that you failed to mention about treating his black tail. That's the problem here. Not me throwing the animal. I don't abuse animals or people or anything like that. I'm not that kind of person. I'm a Christian for crying out loud. But if you come at me - I don't care who you are; if you're a man, a woman, a gorilla, a teenager or even a turtle for god's sake - then I'm going to naturally strike back with self defense. There's nothing wrong or illegal about that.

Regarding the two cage thing: Look. I appreciate your feedback and advice but my girl won't let me have more than two cages in our apartment. It's not that big and we can't just have lizard cages everywhere, so for now I'm just gonna let them ride it out until I start seeing some type of aggression between the two. The thing is lately they've been getting along pretty good and the female hasn't attacked Atog at all. So again I appreciate your concern but I'm just gonna ride that one out.

However I will leave another screenshot of his back legs just to confirm he is in fact a male. Because I wanted them to mate so I could sell the babies and at least get back the money I had to spend to get the lizards, cages, vet visit, etc. So if you can just let me know if it's a male or female then that would be great.

You want some advise?
Geez, what would I do with an injured animal???? MAYBE I would take it to a qualified VET...?!?!

Some more advise?
Give the chameleons to someone that can and will care for them properly and never, ever take anything breathing in your care ever again!

My point on your stupidity is still very accurate, hence my previously made points.

There is no helping you, you are clearly not qualified to care for these animals or anything living... The way you describe your care is appalling and any sane person would be ashamed about it instead of posting it on a forum.

I still call troll... a troll that tortures animals to get attention possibly...
I will abandon this topic now, I don't want to feed the trolls any more.

This person is trolling for sure, do not take his/her bait. Is there an ignore user function here? Admin, please ban the troll.

Listen here for the last time you toxic instigator. Just because you're mad that you were wrong about my "fake" chameleons you still continue to attack me in any other way you can. Obviously everyone has seen you for what you are. They've seen my chameleons, my story did happen and I promise you that I have more experience with raising animals and living in the real world than you ever will. You think these are the only living animals I've take care of before? Hardly, I've had animals growing up my entire life. You can call me what you want but I am by no means someone who "tortures animals to get attention." I mean who even thinks to say that? You're obviously delusional and could really use a wakeup call. But hey I guess you people are all like that in the Netherlands, where nobody is taught true law and order like in the United States of America.

Oh and don't think you're fooling anyone. It's obvious this "timw1" is simply an alt of yours trying to convince a moderator to kick me off the forum. Nice try but anyone could see through your juvenile shenanigans. Give it a rest already and stay off my post.

As for anyone else, I probably answered your questions or concerns in the above responses. Also please remember to let me know if the chameleon in the picture below is in fact a male. Thanks.

- Endlessness

 

[timw1]

Sup.

Yeah so I figured I'd give this whole "chameleon" thing a shot. They seemed like pretty cool animals because they change colors and all. To be honest though, I really just wanted a boa constrictor but my girl said she wouldn't be able to live with a snake so I had to settle for these little chameleon things.

Anyway I decided it would be more interesting if I got two of them instead of one. So I got a female and a male. I actually got them from two different sources though; one from Petco and the other online. I got the one from Petco first (which was said to be female) and then a week later I got the male shipped to me.

That's when the problems started. When the male got here it was much smaller than the female. I figured it would be okay anyway and threw him on in there with the female. The female begin walking over the male and he kept falling to the bottom of the cage. Then at one point the female ran over to the male and took a bite at the tip of it's tail. Come next week and his tail turned black and looked like that guy's arm in that movie Requiem for a Dream. So I looked online and someone said to put some antimicrobial wound gel on it and it would heal up.

When I got back from Walgreens I tried to pick up the male but he kept hissing at me and then he went to bite me. Naturally I responded back and threw him against the wall. It sounded like it hit pretty hard, but if something comes at me (I don't care what it is) in a threatening way then I'm gonna respond.

Anyways the end of the tail ended up falling off but it looks like the black stuff is still spreading up the tail towards it's body. Also ever since I threw him against the wall he's been walking real slow and doesn't move a lot or open his eyes a lot. He did stop hissing at me though.

As for the female, well she's doing great. She eats good, poops good, drinks good and comes to me when I feed it. She's growing fast too, proud of her. The male started turning white though and she keeps biting at him, which worries me because she might get the same infection he did.

So basically my question is, what do I do about the blackness spreading on Atog (I named him Atog). Should I be concerned? Also how do I make him eat and move again like normal, because ever since I threw him against the wall he hasn't eaten at all really.

Thanks for the help.

- Endlessness

Just preserving your idiotic post for future reference.

 

[Peachypink]

This is unbelievable. I don't even know where to begin.



Finally a non-toxic response. Thanks Peachypink for your informative response. I actually had already took Atog to the vet. They said he should be fine as long as the black part fell off, which worried me because I've read during my many hours of research that this infection can indeed spread. That's why I came here to the forum to begin with to make sure, only to then be attacked by so many of the most egotistical people I've ever communicated with.

As far as everything else you talked about, I couldn't help but notice that you failed to mention about treating his black tail. That's the problem here. Not me throwing the animal. I don't abuse animals or people or anything like that. I'm not that kind of person. I'm a Christian for crying out loud. But if you come at me - I don't care who you are; if you're a man, a woman, a gorilla, a teenager or even a turtle for god's sake - then I'm going to naturally strike back with self defense. There's nothing wrong or illegal about that.

Regarding the two cage thing: Look. I appreciate your feedback and advice but my girl won't let me have more than two cages in our apartment. It's not that big and we can't just have lizard cages everywhere, so for now I'm just gonna let them ride it out until I start seeing some type of aggression between the two. The thing is lately they've been getting along pretty good and the female hasn't attacked Atog at all. So again I appreciate your concern but I'm just gonna ride that one out.

However I will leave another screenshot of his back legs just to confirm he is in fact a male. Because I wanted them to mate so I could sell the babies and at least get back the money I had to spend to get the lizards, cages, vet visit, etc. So if you can just let me know if it's a male or female then that would be great.





Listen here for the last time you toxic instigator. Just because you're mad that you were wrong about my "fake" chameleons you still continue to attack me in any other way you can. Obviously everyone has seen you for what you are. They've seen my chameleons, my story did happen and I promise you that I have more experience with raising animals and living in the real world than you ever will. You think these are the only living animals I've take care of before? Hardly, I've had animals growing up my entire life. You can call me what you want but I am by no means someone who "tortures animals to get attention." I mean who even thinks to say that? You're obviously delusional and could really use a wakeup call. But hey I guess you people are all like that in the Netherlands, where nobody is taught true law and order like in the United States of America.

Oh and don't think you're fooling anyone. It's obvious this "timw1" is simply an alt of yours trying to convince a moderator to kick me off the forum. Nice try but anyone could see through your juvenile shenanigans. Give it a rest already and stay off my post.

As for anyone else, I probably answered your questions or concerns in the above responses. Also please remember to let me know if the chameleon in the picture below is in fact a male. Thanks.

- Endlessness

View attachment 174245 View attachment 174246

If you can not have a second cage then you honestly need to give one to someone who can take care of it. Leaving them in the same cage will result is one of them killing the other, either by aggression or taking the resources away from the other. They are solitary animals, they will fight for the basking spot and for food, the bigger one will most likely win and the other will end up dying from lack of proper resources. And if you can't have a second cage now then having them breed would not be something you would be able to do. Babies can NEVER be put in with adults. The adults will see them as feeders and will eat them. And you need space...space for the feeders, space for the egg containers and incubators, space for cages(plural).

As for the tail, I didn't give advise on that because I can't tell you, he needed a vet and that's what you did.

Here is where there are countless keepers that know what they are doing and have years of experience. If you are going to choose not to listen then you will not be successful in keeping them. These are just the things that need to be done. "Thanks for the advise but I'm gonna ride it out...", I'm sorry to say it but that is a death sentence for one or both chams.

 

[WAMBO]

The chams CANNOT be kept in the same cage. The female already attacked the male, biting the tail, resulting in gangrene. This will continue until one is dead. You are failing to listen.

 

[KeopiCat]

@Endlessness Let me emphasize what Peachy said. THEY. MUST. NOT. BE. TOGETHER. I don't mean to come off rude, but what your girlfriend says means nothing. These are animals that have specific care, and if you're going to ignore it just because of what your partner says, you better give those chameleons over to someone who cares.

 

[alphakenc]

Do it right or get another hobby that dont involve with life ,why make the cham go thru the pain if its anger involving,always do ur research before get in a situation like this,the male is already suffered,he doesnt need any more pain n suffer,no vet can save him at this point but u ,ur action will reflect in his health.read the link not once,not twice,but 3 times,and follow it like u reading a bible!!
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

 

[Endlessness]

If you can not have a second cage then you honestly need to give one to someone who can take care of it. Leaving them in the same cage will result is one of them killing the other, either by aggression or taking the resources away from the other. They are solitary animals, they will fight for the basking spot and for food, the bigger one will most likely win and the other will end up dying from lack of proper resources. And if you can't have a second cage now then having them breed would not be something you would be able to do. Babies can NEVER be put in with adults. The adults will see them as feeders and will eat them. And you need space...space for the feeders, space for the egg containers and incubators, space for cages(plural).

As for the tail, I didn't give advise on that because I can't tell you, he needed a vet and that's what you did.

Here is where there are countless keepers that know what they are doing and have years of experience. If you are going to choose not to listen then you will not be successful in keeping them. These are just the things that need to be done. "Thanks for the advise but I'm gonna ride it out...", I'm sorry to say it but that is a death sentence for one or both chams.

Wow well wait! What about the lizard and the pictures, is he a male.. or whats going on with that?

 

[KeopiCat]

Hardly, I've had animals growing up my entire life. You can call me what you want but I am by no means someone who "tortures animals to get attention." I mean who even thinks to say that? You're obviously delusional and could really use a wakeup call. But hey I guess you people are all like that in the Netherlands, where nobody is taught true law and order like in the United States of America.

This has nothing to do with being Dutch, and I think it's rather immature that you'd put a whole nation down because of what one person said on these forums.

I also, though not fully on board, agree with @Remkon that there is appears to be such a lack of concern that it almost seems like bait. I find it hard to believe that someone with compassion would point blank just state that they "threw him against the wall". Much less without any apologetic tone. Just a thought.

 

[KeopiCat]

Wow well wait! What about the lizard and the pictures, is he a male.. or whats going on with that?

He looks to be male, but the pictures aren't at the best angle. They are also obstructed by the screen cage.

 

[Peachypink]

I agree, not super clear but looks to be male.

But that's not going to matter if you don't follow the advise given here.

 

[Endlessness]

He looks to be male, but the pictures aren't at the best angle. They are also obstructed by the screen cage.

Alright cool. So they'll breed eventually.

Thanks.

Oh and the female keeps eating the artificial leaves.. so is that okay or.. what do I do about that?

 

[alphakenc]

Look closely on ur chams back feet,If u see a pointing thing called "spur" then he is a male ,that poor thing need to be save asap!!

 

[KeopiCat]

@Endlessness
In the future the could hypothetically breed, but please focus on their immediate health, this is what matters MOST.

As for your female, I would recommend offering her dark leafy collard greens. I've heard of people hanging a few leaves with a chip clip. Also, make it a goal to fill their cage with chameleon safe plants (FL Chams offers a great list), that way, they can eat all sorts of leaves if they want.

 

[Brad]

@Endlessness
Occasionally we have to remind members to take it easy on new keepers that are still learning. We were all new at one point and we all make mistakes. However, you admitted to throwing your chameleon against the wall and you show absolutely zero remorse. That is animal abuse. It's disgusting and there is no excuse for it. Your account has been banned. You're welcome to browse the forums as a guest and I suggest you review the care resources. If you need additional help feel free to use the Contact Us link.

 

[alphakenc]

Forget about breeding,that male has been thru hell n back.......tail got whack,possibility brain damages,traumatized,the last thing u want him is to perform his male duty?
I wont be surprised if there is bipolar babies hatched from the results!!