New veiled not eating yet

[Troodlesn]

Hi, my daughter is the Cham owner, but she’s 10 and so I am helping her. She’s been reading on here, doing research, saving money, and making the enclosure since covid forced us inside last Spring.

Yesterday was the big day when her baby veiled Cham, Yoda, was delivered. We have seen Yoda drink once and haven’t seen him eat anything yet. Yesterday, she just put the crickets loose into the enclosure, but we realized he is so tiny in a giant enclosure and so would probably never go down to find them. So, last night we made a feeder run out of a syrup container and this morning she put it in the enclosure with the crickets and some kale.

Just a minute ago Yoda came closer. He’s black, I assume out of fear from the feeder being added. Is he too small to use this type of feeder?

Here are pics of Yoda last night and then the enclosure with the feeder run from a few minutes ago.

 

[CBee7726]

Hi there,

Welcome to the community! It's day 1, and can take a little while for a cham to adjust to his new home. In the meantime, please fill out the form below if you would like a husbandry review.

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful

 

[Beman]

Hi, my daughter is the Cham owner, but she’s 10 and so I am helping her. She’s been reading on here, doing research, saving money, and making the enclosure since covid forced us inside last Spring.

Yesterday was the big day when her baby veiled Cham, Yoda, was delivered. We have seen Yoda drink once and haven’t seen him eat anything yet. Yesterday, she just put the crickets loose into the enclosure, but we realized he is so tiny in a giant enclosure and so would probably never go down to find them. So, last night we made a feeder run out of a syrup container and this morning she put it in the enclosure with the crickets and some kale.

Just a minute ago Yoda came closer. He’s black, I assume out of fear from the feeder being added. Is he too small to use this type of feeder?

Here are pics of Yoda last night and then the enclosure with the feeder run from a few minutes ago.
View attachment 276297View attachment 276298View attachment 276299

I would go ahead and pull that run out because of the tape.... It will lift and when it does it becomes an extreme hazard for baby. Chameleon skin and tape are not a good mix.

Please fill out the form so we can help you more.

 

[Troodlesn]

Hi there,

Welcome to the community! It's day 1, and can take a little while for a cham to adjust to his new home. In the meantime, please fill out the form below if you would like a husbandry review.

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful

Thanks! We will start working on the form now.

 

[Troodlesn]

I would go ahead and pull that run out because of the tape.... It will lift and when it does it becomes an extreme hazard for baby. Chameleon skin and tape are not a good mix.

Please fill out the form so we can help you more.

Thank you for the advice! We did that to keep the edges from being too sharp. What method do you recommend to protect him from the cut edges of the container?

 

[Beman]

Thank you for the advice! We did that to keep the edges from being too sharp. What method do you recommend to protect him from the cut edges of the container?

I understand and that is the go to for most to get rid of the sharp edge. But any tape at all is dangerous. The humidity and moisture causes it to peal up even duct tape will do this.
You could try a lighter and melt the edge a bit.

 

[Troodlesn]

I understand and that is the go to for most to get rid of the sharp edge. But any tape at all is dangerous. The humidity and moisture causes it to peal up even duct tape will do this.
You could try a lighter and melt the edge a bit.

ok, we will do that, thanks again!

 

[jacksonchamnew]

I have seen videos of breeders and when all these chams are in cage, they put down bowl of superworms. I know it won't be a stable food but little cham has to eat. They should get cricket or superworm that climbs up screen. They have to have movement for their prey. I am getting a shooting gallery for my cham.

 

[Troodlesn]

Here is the Husbandry form completed:

• Your Chameleon - “Yoda”
  • Veiled, Male, "baby" don’t know how old, he is 4” long
  • He arrived via UPS on 9/1/20
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Ellie (my daughter who owns Yoda) had to pick him up three times yesterday because he escaped from the enclosure three times before we fixed the area he was escaping through. He was squeezing through the top screen, which was more like chicken wire (½” square openings). Now a normal window screen is set on top of it and he is no longer escaping. Ellie planned to have Yoda be untouched for a week before she would attempt to hold him.
• Feeding -
  • So far, Ellie is feeding Yoda crickets. She plans to try other food once we get a handle on the crickets.
  • She put in about 7 crickets loose yesterday and 4 more in a feeder this morning. We haven’t seen Yoda eat any yet, but when we removed the feeder to remove the duct tape, only one cricket was still inside of it. We don’t know if they escaped. We never observed Yoda going up to the feeder.
• Supplements -
  • Exo Terra Calcium with D3 powder supplement for reptiles
  • Exo Terra Multivitamin powder supplement for reptiles and amphibians
  • Fluker’s liquid calcium (not less than 6%)
  • Ellie has made a schedule of what days to give calcium only, what days to give calcium with D3, and what days to give a multi-vitamin. See attached picture of her schedule for September.
• Watering -
  • There is a Neptonion Reptile Chameleon Cantina Drinking Fountain Water dripper
  • Also, About 5 times a day Ellie sprays water into the enclosure until she sees plenty of water droplets on all of the leaves. We saw him drink off of a leaf yesterday.
• Fecal Description -
  • We haven’t observed any yet
• History -
  • We bought Yoda from Underground Reptiles on 8/31/20 and they have been very helpful each time we have called with questions.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type -
  • wooden armoire retrofitted with screens on front, back, and top
  • The inside dimensions are 40” wide x 21” deep x 52” high
• Lighting -
  • Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 High Output UVB Fluorescent Bulb, 15 Watts, 18-Inch ,
  • Exo Terra Sun-Glo Neodymium A19 Lamp, 60-Watt
  • Schedule - both on from 8am - 8pm, both off from 8pm to 8am.
• Temperature - The temp range has been 72 to 80 degree range and humidity 55% - 75%, we haven’t measured the night temp.
  • Measured with Zoo Med Economy Analog Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge, 6 x 4"
• Humidity -
  • 55% with misting, overall house humidity, and live plants,
  • measured with Zoo Med economy humidity gauge
• Plants - Jade, Cana Lilly, and Spider Plant (spider plant will be added later this week)
• Placement -
  • The cage is in Ellie’s bedroom on the second floor of our house.
  • A south-facing window overlaps with the rear of the enclosure.
  • There are no heating/cooling elements or vents near to it.
  • The top of the cage is 55” above the floor.
• Location - Farmington Hills (metro Detroit), Michigan

Current Problem - Yoda didn’t eat yesterday (the day we received him) as far as we could tell, he drank once that we saw, though we left him alone for much of the day and he was very active. Yesterday he turned black when he escaped a few times and we had to return him to the enclosure, but then he turned green again by evening. Today he has remained black all day and hasn’t eaten or drunk as far as we can tell. He is sitting at the very top of the enclosure now.

 

[Troodlesn]

We called underground reptiles and they said the basking spot should be up to 95 degrees. So we swapped the heat lamp for a 75 watt bulb just now. I am going to work on the feeding run and get it back in there. So, would the crickets climb up the walls and then he’d see them and eat them? If so, then maybe he’s just cold and not hungry?

 

[Beman]

We called underground reptiles and they said the basking spot should be up to 95 degrees. So we swapped the heat lamp for a 75 watt bulb just now. I am going to work on the feeding run and get it back in there. So, would the crickets climb up the walls and then he’d see them and eat them? If so, then maybe he’s just cold and not hungry?

That is way too hot and will kill baby they are not a reputable breeder... They tend to be a reptile flipper. Do not listen to info they give you for the baby.
Please give me a bit to go through your help form.

 

[Beman]

@Troodlesn See my feedback in red bold.... It will be a ton of info please do not get overwhelmed.

Here is the Husbandry form completed:

• Your Chameleon - “Yoda”
  • Veiled, Male, "baby" don’t know how old, he is 4” long Are you sure it is a male? Do you see tarsal spurs on the back of the back feet?
  • He arrived via UPS on 9/1/20
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Ellie (my daughter who owns Yoda) had to pick him up three times yesterday because he escaped from the enclosure three times before we fixed the area he was escaping through. He was squeezing through the top screen, which was more like chicken wire (½” square openings). Now a normal window screen is set on top of it and he is no longer escaping. Ellie planned to have Yoda be untouched for a week before she would attempt to hold him. Keep the window screen on the top. This makes a difference in your UVB output and is needed when it comes to using T5HO fixtures and UVB bulbs.
• Feeding -
  • So far, Ellie is feeding Yoda crickets. She plans to try other food once we get a handle on the crickets. What size are the crickets being fed? They need to be small 1/4 inch size. Baby should be eating about 15 or more feeders a day. It is normal for them to take a few days to eat.
  • She put in about 7 crickets loose yesterday and 4 more in a feeder this morning. We haven’t seen Yoda eat any yet, but when we removed the feeder to remove the duct tape, only one cricket was still inside of it. We don’t know if they escaped. We never observed Yoda going up to the feeder. They may have jumped out. Be careful putting crickets in loose they have been known to bite sleeping babies. I prefer this feeder run in the large size... https://tkchameleons.com/
• Supplements -
  • Exo Terra Calcium with D3 powder supplement for reptiles
  • Exo Terra Multivitamin powder supplement for reptiles and amphibians
  • Fluker’s liquid calcium (not less than 6%) Liquid calcium should not be used...
  • Ellie has made a schedule of what days to give calcium only, what days to give calcium with D3, and what days to give a multi-vitamin. See attached picture of her schedule for September. Schedule did not post. Please take an image of the two powdered supplements you got so I can double check the type. Schedule should be calcium without D3 6 days a week. Then rotate between the multivitamin and the calcium with D3 week to week on the 7th feeding.
• Watering -
  • There is a Neptonion Reptile Chameleon Cantina Drinking Fountain Water dripper Fountain needs to be removed and returned... These are known for building up bacteria and they are not a natural way for the cham to drink.
  • Also, About 5 times a day Ellie sprays water into the enclosure until she sees plenty of water droplets on all of the leaves. We saw him drink off of a leaf yesterday. Misting morning and evening when the cage is cooler is better. The more live plants you have the better for the water droplets to stay on the leaves. Using a cool mist humidifier at night will aid in natural hydration.
• Fecal Description -
  • We haven’t observed any yet
• History -
  • We bought Yoda from Underground Reptiles on 8/31/20 and they have been very helpful each time we have called with questions. They are known for being a reptile flipper... Please do not take your info from them. We have correct sources for you and I will provide them below.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type -
  • wooden armoire retrofitted with screens on front, back, and top
  • The inside dimensions are 40” wide x 21” deep x 52” high
• Lighting -
  • Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 High Output UVB Fluorescent Bulb, 15 Watts, 18-Inch , You will need a T5HO fixture that runs the width of that enclosure with a 5.0 or 6% UVB bulb and then the closest basking branch below it will be 9 inches away for the correct UVI level. Pangea reptile online sells fixtures.
  • Exo Terra Sun-Glo Neodymium A19 Lamp, 60-Watt this is fine.
  • Schedule - both on from 8am - 8pm, both off from 8pm to 8am.
• Temperature - The temp range has been 72 to 80 degree range and humidity 55% - 75%, we haven’t measured the night temp. Temp range is good. Basking should be no hotter then low 80's max. Humidity is too high. Make sure the probe is not getting wet. You want 30-40% ideally during the day max of 50%. This is where misting in the morning and the evening only is helpful.
  • Measured with Zoo Med Economy Analog Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge, 6 x 4"
• Humidity -
  • 55% with misting, overall house humidity, and live plants, See info above.
  • measured with Zoo Med economy humidity gauge
• Plants - Jade, Cana Lilly, and Spider Plant (spider plant will be added later this week)... You will want to stick to Veiled tested plants only due to them eating their plants. Jade is a succulent and should not be used.... See this list for Veiled tested... I would recommend some mature umbrella trees to fill out the enclosure and then pothos up higher... https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf
• All fake plants need to be removed. They are an impaction risk.
• Placement -
  • The cage is in Ellie’s bedroom on the second floor of our house.
  • A south-facing window overlaps with the rear of the enclosure.
  • There are no heating/cooling elements or vents near to it.
  • The top of the cage is 55” above the floor.
• Location - Farmington Hills (metro Detroit), Michigan

Current Problem - Yoda didn’t eat yesterday (the day we received him) as far as we could tell, he drank once that we saw, though we left him alone for much of the day and he was very active. Yesterday he turned black when he escaped a few times and we had to return him to the enclosure, but then he turned green again by evening. Today he has remained black all day and hasn’t eaten or drunk as far as we can tell. He is sitting at the very top of the enclosure now.



What are your distances from the lighting to the basking branches below? And the UVB fixture your using now is it a T8 or T5 there is a difference between output on these.


I would recommend that you and Ellie read through this husbandry program. It is very thorough and will give you a ton of info on proper husbandry

https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
Veiled specific care https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

 

[Troodlesn]

Thank you so much. I will changed the light bulb back again and am now looking at your other recommendations. We had read the care guide on here and had used a plant guide on chameleon school. The waterfall was chosen because she saw a video of someone using it. The bulb is a T8.
Here is the calendar.

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much. I will changed the light bulb back again and am now looking at your other recommendations. We had read the care guide on here and had used a plant guide on chameleon school. The waterfall was chosen because she saw a video of someone using it. The bulb is a T8.
Here is the calendar. View attachment 276325

Elaborate schedule she put together. If you could take a pic of the supplements for me so I can look those over.

For the T8 you will need to make sure you have a vine going up under that fixture 6 inches below it. The output on T8 fixtures are much lower. And you will want to order a T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% bulb to run the width of the enclosure with this fixture basking branch would be 9 inches below the fixture. Keep in mind you will need plant lighting as well.
I like these fixtures. They come with the plant bulb. So you can use them for the plants and buy one for use with the UVB bulb. You can get the correct UVB separately from them as well. If the enclosure is 40 wide you could get the 36inch fixture and center it on the top.
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/t5-uvb-light-fixture.html

This would be the UVB you would get... And if you get the 36 inch fixture you would get the 34 inch bulb.
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/arcadia-6-uvb-t5-reptile-bulb.html

I run 2 for plants and 1 for UVB on my enclosures.

 

[Troodlesn]

Elaborate schedule she put together. If you could take a pic of the supplements for me so I can look those over.

For the T8 you will need to make sure you have a vine going up under that fixture 6 inches below it. The output on T8 fixtures are much lower. And you will want to order a T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% bulb to run the width of the enclosure with this fixture basking branch would be 9 inches below the fixture. Keep in mind you will need plant lighting as well.
I like these fixtures. They come with the plant bulb. So you can use them for the plants and buy one for use with the UVB bulb. You can get the correct UVB separately from them as well. If the enclosure is 40 wide you could get the 36inch fixture and center it on the top.
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/t5-uvb-light-fixture.html

This would be the UVB you would get... And if you get the 36 inch fixture you would get the 34 inch bulb.
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/arcadia-6-uvb-t5-reptile-bulb.html

I run 2 for plants and 1 for UVB on my enclosures.

Wow, this is so helpful. I'm crying though because with all the research we did, we still didn't get it right and my daughter did hours of weeding for neighbors to get enough money for all the equipment we do have...so, we'll see how soon we can swap these things out. She has to pay for each of the things. Now I'm realizing we should have joined the forum FIRST, to be sure she was set before buying the Cham. We will do our best though!

Here are pics of the supplements. The liquid calcium now we know is bad. If only these products could say “all reptiles EXCEPT for chameleons”. ?

 

[Beman]

Wow, this is so helpful. I'm crying though because with all the research we did, we still didn't get it right and my daughter did hours of weeding for neighbors to get enough money for all the equipment we do have...so, we'll see how soon we can swap these things out. She has to pay for each of the things. Now I'm realizing we should have joined the forum FIRST, to be sure she was set before buying the Cham. We will do our best though!

Here are pics of the supplements. The liquid calcium now we know is bad. If only these products could say “all reptiles EXCEPT for chameleons”. ?View attachment 276333View attachment 276334View attachment 276335

Awwww Don't cry! We will help yall. Where did you buy the stuff? I know Petco will take returns.
Ok so the liquid is a no go but you just need repti calcium without D3.
I believe you have exo terra multivitamin and the exo terra Calcium with D3. ....

Here is the thing about these two the calcium with D3 is correct and would be used 2 times a month. The multivitamin I do not like because it does not have preformed vitamin A in it and it has calcium with D3.

Ideally if you got them all at petco return them all.

Buy Reptivite WITH D3 and give this 2 times a month only say the 1st and the 15th then reptical calcium without D3 for all other feedings. The reptivite with D3 is a multivitamin and calcium with D3.

For correct info I recommend all new keepers go to this website and read through the husbandry program.
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

 

[Beman]

For Ellie... Tell her to watch this channel only for accurate info https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1
This is one of our member's @Gingero youtube channel and she makes informative videos that will make it easier for Ellie to understand all the husbandry.

Yall can do this. I wish my 16 year old had half the motivation Ellie does.

 

[Troodlesn]

Someone sent me a DM asking for the supplement schedule, so I thought I could just put it on here. I think my daughter found advice on here for that...I can't keep track of all the places she looked for information! I made the file with what she showed me. The schedule repeats after December 5th.

 

[Troodlesn]

Well, Pet Supply Plus (where we bought the supplements) has told us no returns because of covid. It's ok, we will help her out with some of this. My husband was just trying to pull legs off of tiny crickets (to set them in a bowl for Yoda) and killed a few in the process, so we'll be buying the next batch of those at least. ha!

The good news is that Yoda did eat a few crickets for us eventually today and he was climbing all over and looking very happy green. We also caught a couple of the big crickets that were loose in the enclosure and got rid of them.

There is quite a run on live cham food right now! We went out today, tried three stores, called a few more, and finally found one with truly SMALL crickets that were actually alive. Those are the ones he finally ate, though we didn't have them gut loaded. We just wanted to get him eating something!

Ok, more answers for you:
We *think* we can see spurs on his back feet, but he is so little, that it's hard to tell. I will post a picture tomorrow (right now my phone is dead)

It is very encouraging to hear that it can take a few days for him to start eating again. In the morning we are going to set up a feeder like the one you linked to (the shooting range). We have a take-out container that is the same shape that we can attach to the screen and we'll see how it works in the morning. Otherwise, we may need to put him into a smaller terrarium with crickets for feeding time each morning to be able to monitor how much he's eating. We have one of those from when Ellie's big brother had a bearded dragon years ago.

Ellie seems to have a good grasp on the gut loading. She has been saying we need carrots and apples, etc, and to rotate the food. My goodness, what a lot to keep track of, but it is certainly keeping her brain engaged in positive information.

We have a cool-mist humidifier we can set up for the night. I'll try to do that after posting this.

Eliana had made sure the basking spot was 9" away from the heat lamp. However, she had a vine going all the way to the top under the uvb lamp. So, we need to change that.

Thank you for all of the helpful links. I've made a bookmark folder for Ellie with all of them- the youtube channel is one she was already watching regularly.

We will work our way through the other recommendations tomorrow afternoon. We will look at the husbandry link and hopefully, Yoda will be happier and healthier very soon.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I think you do have a boy. In this pic I can see some good sized tarsal spurs.