Our new Veield looks like she has CP!

[KCcham]

Hello everyone, first post here!

We have had chams for a few years, and our son recently got a new female from a reptile show. She is really small, and seems to have a cham form of CP. She shakes a lot, and her legs shake really bad when she walks. She eats and drinks ok. Her size and shaking kinda have us worried. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance, jeffrey

 

[arkist]

Fill this out. It will give us an good overview of your husbandry.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

 

[KCcham]

I will try to answer all the questions, but I am posting this from my phone, so we will see how it goes.

She is a 10month old veiled in a 18 by 18 by 36 screen cage, outside so the temp varies. She has a schefelera(sp) plant in there and some vines. Her diet is a mix of crix,roaches,and silkworms. I guy load the crix and roaches pretty good before I feed. She is misted everyday and fed everyday also. I haven't got a good look at her feces yet as she usually goes in the plant.
We never handle her.
When we got her from the show she looked great and we got her from someone we knew.
She is about 1/3 the size she shld be at this point.

Hope that helps.

 

[arkist]

Nope, sorry, still need more detail. Fill out the form when you can get to a comp.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello everyone, first post here!

We have had chams for a few years, and our son recently got a new female from a reptile show. She is really small, and seems to have a cham form of CP. She shakes a lot, and her legs shake really bad when she walks. She eats and drinks ok. Her size and shaking kinda have us worried. Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance, jeffrey

Hello Jeffrey, welcome to the forum. There are many knowledgable people here who are great at providing suggestions.

I personally dont know what CP stands for. So I'm not much help!
A little shaking back and forth when walking is normal. But since you're not brand new to chameleons, I assume the shaking you are observing is not normal. Is it possible she has not been getting enough UVB or calcium or heat, and perhaps has the beginnings of MDB?

Providing the detailed info requested by Arkist will help folks help you

 

[arkist]

based on the description I believe CP means Cerebral palsy.

 

[dodolah]

cerebral palsy seems unlikely.
MBD on the other hand.. seems very possible.
Its symptoms are classic MBD. Do you supplement and use UVB light at all?

 

[KCcham]

I will post more when I get home this evening. Yes, I was refering to a cham form of CP in jest.

During the winter I do have them all under uvb, but during the summer I do not. I also do not use supplements very often, maybe I am just lucky that this has not happened before.

Help me out with what MBD stands for so I can check it out a bit more.

 

[Rocky]

mbd is metabollic bone disease. It is not a fun thing to deal with from what i hear. there are a lot of resources here to help you though. you may need to goto the vet

 

[erinsangels]

Mbd

MBD in a really horrible thing for a chameleon to go through, or suffer from. My last chameleon dies because of it and the guilt i felt was overwhelming. Chameleons need regular calcium dusted on all their food and then the UVB and UVA light to process the calcium into vitaminD which in turn helps their bones grow. Begining stages of MBD are shaking, twitching, an extra "joint" or bowed limbs. They stop eating, and need a vet.
Hope u catch it quick, the poor wee mite.
Hope this info helps
good;uck
Erin

 

[arkist]

cerebral palsy seems unlikely.
MBD on the other hand.. seems very possible.
Its symptoms are classic MBD. Do you supplement and use UVB light at all?

My thoughts exactly, thought I didn't want to say MBD until I had more information.

Dodolah is right, this does sound like MBD, but I would still like that information from the question sheet.

Please fill it out and concentrate on lighting, as well as supplementing types, scheduling, and dosages.

 

[dodolah]

Supplementation and uvb light are imperative if you plan on keeping your chameleon indoor.
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-b-metabolic-bone.html

 

[boothy]

the shaking and convalsions is from lack of vitamins and minerals , sometimes its the first stage to mbd , my male veiled had it and by the end of his shaking and trembling all over and having convalsions he had a hemipenal prolapse and later died through the night , and all this happend because i was inexperienced and thought more nutrients biggger and stronger my chameleon will be , that wasnt the case , i didnt know to much acess vitamins like vitD3 turns toxic in the body if there is to much and i ended up killing him with kindness by poisoning all his organs , so make sure you have a good chart of your dusting , i dust 3 times a week with calcium with out vitD3 and then 2 or 3 times a month of calcium with vitD3 and 2 times a month with minerals and vitamins and havent had any problems in the last 3 yrs of owning chameleons but theres alot more ways then just mine just ask around and use one that better suits your chameleon needs

 

[kinyonga]

KCcham said..."During the winter I do have them all under uvb, but during the summer I do not. I also do not use supplements very often, maybe I am just lucky that this has not happened before"...do they get direct sunlight in the summertime?

To determine if your chameleon really does have MBD you should take it to a vet....unless the signs are certain. The vet can do tests and then give the chameleon injections of calcium to bring things back in line. This can be followed by an injection of calcitonin when the blood calcium levels are high enough. This will draw the calcium back into the bones.

Here's the short course...
Exposure to UVB allows the chameleon to produce D3 which in turn allows it to use the calcium in its diet. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic. Direct sunlight is the best form of UVB but you need to give the chameleon "shady" places so it can move out of the sunlight if it wants/needs to.

Since most insects we use as feeders have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, its important to dust the insects before feeding them to the chameleon with a phosphorous-free calcium powder such as Rep-Cal.

I also dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene can not build up in the system like preformed vitamin A can. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

If the chameleons get no direct sunlight, I also dust twice a month light with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 can also build up in the system...so don't overdo it.

Appropriate basking temperature aids in digestion and thus in nutrient absorption.

Gutloading the insects and feeding them a nutritious diet will help too. Crickets can be fed a wide variety of greens (dandelion, kale, endive, collards, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.).

Calcium, D3, vitamin A and phosphorous all play parts in bone health and its important for them to be in balance. You need to look at what you supplement with, what you feed the insects and what you feed to the chamaleon in the way of those things.

 

[KCcham]

They do get direct sun during the summer months when they are outside. But, I have never used supplements during the summer either. I know about MBD, I just have never seen it used as an acronym like that before. I had something in the back of my mind telling me that it could be MBD, but I just kept thinking that it couldn't happen to me, it only happens to other people, and rarely at that. I live in the boonies but will look to try to find a vet that could see her in the city. I ran out of rep-cal this spring right when I put them outside, so it looks like i need to go to the city anyway!

I am getting ready to bring them to their indoor cages for the fall, can someone recommend a good UVB bulb? I have no idea what kind I bought last time, and I know its time for a new one. If it helps, their indoor cages are all 2x2x4 screened, i have 4 of them total.

thanks again for all the help.

 

[kinyonga]

The Repti-sun 5.0 linear tube light is usually recommended. (Not the compact type.)

Even if the chameleons are outside in the summer, they still need calcium since most of the feeder insects used have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous.

 

[KCcham]

got it! I am heading into town tomorrow and will check for a vet and get some supplements for all of my chams. Thanks again everyone for all your help! Jeffrey

 

[dodolah]

http://herpvetconnection.com

 

[arkist]

Good luck Jeffrey. I hope that the vet says your lil girl doesn't have MBD.

Be sure to do a little research into supplementing so that you know what to get and have an idea of how to schedule your supplements.

 

[KCcham]

Thanks arkist I appreciate it! I clicked on the link supplied above and there are several in the city that we go to! Be thankful if you live close to a herp vet and dont have to drive forever to see one!