Oustalet's humidity help help

[reptilematt]

Hello everyone who is reading.

I am an experienced tortoise keeper and made a haphazard jump to keeping a chameleon after my fiancee fell in love with it. I have no experience. The chameleon is in a 18x18x36 screen enclosure with an umbrella plant and a recommended moss that the breeder said would retain moisture.

The humidity is sitting at about 54% with my old hygrometer (need to maybe replace) and temperatures are ranging from 97F (basking) to 72F (bottom of enclosure).

The chameleon has mostly rested under the day lamp and is dark brown in coloration. Last night, it was very pastel white-tan. It is 5-6 months in age and about 10 inches or so. It ate two crickets since placing it in the enclosure this past Sunday.

Assuming the humidity is low even with continual misting, is it worthwhile to switch to a glass terrarium?

 

[macdaddy]

Most people would recommend that you stay with the screen cage and use your misting schedule to manage the humidity levels. You should be misting several times a day for around 2-3 minutes to allow for a good saturation and keeping live plants will also help. My guys all love Pothos, which is super easy to care for and provides cover and vines to climb on. I would also recommend that you lower your basking temp. Juveniles require lower temps than adults. Get your basking spot to around 85 degrees at the top and grade down to the bottom. They are happy with a nice evening drop in temps as well, so anything in the 60s and they will sleep well.

 

[macdaddy]

Never used the moss, but maybe other forum members can comment on how it works.

 

[nightanole]

OUst's dont really need the high humidity or massive water drinking of the other popular species. Just keep "her" above 50% and you will be fine. Potted plants should naturally keep it at 55%. They will turn white/pinkstripes when too hot, and almost black when too cold. They are normally the color of dirt/bark, and will some times turn black and white.

She should be eating like a horse at this point(2-3 dozen crickets a day).


PS its a "she" and doesnt look more than 4 months old tops. My male is 6 months and is as big as a full grown vieled, it cant even support itself on pothos any more and weighs down some pretty big hibiscus plants.

 

[reptilematt]

OUst's dont really need the high humidity or massive water drinking of the other popular species. Just keep "her" above 50% and you will be fine. Potted plants should naturally keep it at 55%. They will turn white/pinkstripes when too hot, and almost black when too cold. They are normally the color of dirt/bark, and will some times turn black and white.

She should be eating like a horse at this point(2-3 dozen crickets a day).


PS its a "she" and doesnt look more than 4 months old tops. My male is 6 months and is as big as a full grown vieled, it cant even support itself on pothos any more and weighs down some pretty big hibiscus plants.

We had several breeders look at "her" during the show, all of which said they weren't sure but because "she" was turning colors, they thought it was a male. This is also a captive bred and hatched which is somewhat smaller than the WC chams. How did you decide it was a "she" without a close up of the base of "her" tail? Not that I don't believe you, just want to know what we missed/how you could tell so easily!


I am also shocked by the 2-3 dozen crickets a day! We were told a dozen every three days but play by ear. How often are you dusting them?

Thank you for your replies, this forum has been invaluable!

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Female must knows!!!

Get her a laying bin asap. Mine just died from being eggboung and not having proper setup. There is a good laying bin vid on youtube, make a starter hole for her, helps with her knowing she needs to dig. Nothing higher than 90 for the basking spot. Use a reptisun 5.0 uvb bulb. Cover her cage on all 4 sides the first time you see her on the ground, take one side off at night so she can get some fresh air. Get a mister if you havent and have it spray every hour as long as it needs to in order to get the leaves dripping wet. Mine ate usually 10-15 crickets a day, feed her less to make for smaller clutches, makes her live longer. Best of luck with your girl.

 

[nightanole]

I got my male wild caught at 8". Its been mowing down crickets at about 2-3 dozen a day (ive seen sub adult beardies go through 1000 in 2 weeks). The only thing that has changed is i go up a cricket size with each months order.


As far as a he/she, the side patterns are muted and look like a girl, she has no back spikes, and she can turn at least her head green(males dont have the green gene).

If you look in the photo section here you can see a pic of my 100% male at 6 months, and i can post some 4 month old pics too.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/oustalets-have-color-too-91679/

 

[buddy912]

We had several breeders look at "her" during the show, all of which said they weren't sure but because "she" was turning colors, they thought it was a male. This is also a captive bred and hatched which is somewhat smaller than the WC chams. How did you decide it was a "she" without a close up of the base of "her" tail? Not that I don't believe you, just want to know what we missed/how you could tell so easily!


I am also shocked by the 2-3 dozen crickets a day! We were told a dozen every three days but play by ear. How often are you dusting them?

Thank you for your replies, this forum has been invaluable!

if ur chameleon has "spurs" on the backs of his/her feets then u have a male.

 

[nightanole]

if ur chameleon has "spurs" on the backs of his/her feets then u have a male.

If only all chams had that "option", sadly only vieleds do

 

[buddy912]

If only all chams had that "option", sadly only vieleds do

this is true, my bad i though it was a veiled. i had fun trying to figure out mine was a male till i learned about the spurs.

 

[reptilematt]

We both did a lot of reading and so far I think it is a "she." Here are three more pictures. We probably can get a definitive answer now if it's a boy or girl.

Under the mouth, the color when the chameleon "puffs-up" is grey with some some pigments of dark red. Is this area called the "dewalp?"

 

[lausnordah]

this is true, my bad i though it was a veiled. i had fun trying to figure out mine was a male till i learned about the spurs.

veiled chameleons are not the only chams that have a tarsal spur if they're male.

gracefuls do as well (and probably others)

 

[nightanole]

We both did a lot of reading and so far I think it is a "she." Here are three more pictures. We probably can get a definitive answer now if it's a boy or girl.

Under the mouth, the color when the chameleon "puffs-up" is grey with some some pigments of dark red. Is this area called the "dewalp?"

100% girl for sure now. I think its still called a dewlap, unless they change them for each kind of lizard. When she grows up she will be able to turn a really pretty emerald with black lines. The males can turn black and white with bright red tails and heads. I always worry my male is burning himself on the heatlamp, because he can make the skin on his head red , and the scales another color.

 

[reptilematt]

Very cool! Does it matter if she is turning black or very dark brown now? I had to change her plant out for a hibiscus and she turned black. Also, you pretty confident it's a oustelet's? -- At least that's what the breeder told us, but then again, the breeder was 99% sure male. Ha!

100% girl for sure now. I think its still called a dewlap, unless they change them for each kind of lizard. When she grows up she will be able to turn a really pretty emerald with black lines. The males can turn black and white with bright red tails and heads. I always worry my male is burning himself on the heatlamp, because he can make the skin on his head red , and the scales another color.

 

[nightanole]

Ya oust happy colors are everyone else's sick colors. As long as she is not turning all white from heat or not hanging out in the plants you should be fine. Before they get their adult colors they can be confused with panthers when they are not showing their spots(both can make white lines), but ya she can produce an "O" on her side and cant produce panther "v" on her side. I dont know how a breeder cant tell from the get go. If you look at the 2-3 clutches posted here you can just go girl boy girl all the way down the line even at a few hours old. Hint hint, only girls can turn green. Also hint hint, only guys can turn their tails red.

Right now mine is on a hibiscus and is completely black with white spots, and hand feeding.


Here is some really confusing panther vs oustalets if you get the colors right:
http://mongabay.s3.amazonaws.com/madagascar/600/madagascar_7073.jpg (gee red tail, i wonder if its a boy...)
http://www.wildherps.com/images/herps/standard/070502051PD_chameleon.jpg


But once they grow up girl ousts look like this wit the sig "O" and green:
http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/23805.jpg




PS what phone are you using? The focus is always spot on.

 

[reptilematt]

Thanks nightanole for the excellent tips! So we 99% have a female!

Pictures are from Galaxy S3 with Cyanogenmod.

My fiancee noticed just now (literally) that one I was much larger than the other and not open. (This sucks). She misted it, and noticed that the eye started to re-open. Do you think this is something to do with 45% humidity? We mist, and it will stay at 55% for only an hour or less. Humidifier time do you think?

Ya oust happy colors are everyone else's sick colors. As long as she is not turning all white from heat or not hanging out in the plants you should be fine. Before they get their adult colors they can be confused with panthers when they are not showing their spots(both can make white lines), but ya she can produce an "O" on her side and cant produce panther "v" on her side. I dont know how a breeder cant tell from the get go. If you look at the 2-3 clutches posted here you can just go girl boy girl all the way down the line even at a few hours old. Hint hint, only girls can turn green. Also hint hint, only guys can turn their tails red.

Right now mine is on a hibiscus and is completely black with white spots, and hand feeding.

PS what phone are you using? The focus is always spot on.

 

[nightanole]

They can close 1 eye and just have a "scout" eye open.

With the humidity you want the cage to dry out before misting again. It sounds like you are doing a good job for this arid cham (remember they dont live in the jungle). If the humidity gets too low you will start noticing skin/shed problems and sometimes lung problems. I cant keep my humidity above 50 in the winter and my guys do just fine. I tried a humidifier and all i did was get mold and 1 beardy with a upper respiratory thing because it never dried out.

I also re read your first post. They do turn white while sleeping. Just make sure they dont turn white while basking. You might want to dial down the basking temp. If on the hot days it hits 97 you are ok (and if you are measuring the surfact temp of a leaf or got the probe under the lamp) but that is the upper limit, id rather it be 5 degrees cooler, you want upper 80's lower 90's. lower 70's at the bottom is perfect. If you want to try to increase the humidity to 65% (hydrometers are at best off 5%) you can place plastic sheets on 3 out of the 4 sides of the screen cage. Id start to 2 adjoining corners. You want air flow more than humidity.

 

[reptilematt]

Excellent! Thanks again for invaluable advice. We will start with the plastic on two sides. And just to clarify, you would not recommend a humidifier in the room at all or just not in the tank?

As far as the "scout" eye - is it ok if it is making a weird blinking movement when it is closed? It also sometimes appears to be bulging a bit but then will sink back to normal after a few seconds. It only bulges now and then, nothing constant.

Sorry to keep prying your brain! We just want to do this right and have her for as many years as possible.

 

[nightanole]

Eye is fine. It will move around even while closed and bulge in and out. Odds are its just annoyed that you are bugging it while its trying to sleep. Just make sure the eyes are not sunken in and the white part of the poop is not orange (alittle orange is ok). Those are the signs of dehydration.

I would not recommend a room humidifier. If you think the humidity is not high enough i recommend a "tube" humidifier for just the cage. You can either DIY one from a normal room humidifier or by a premade reptile version.

You just ductape a tube to a normal humidifier and run it to the tank (you dont need to have a misting tube like the example)

http://www.turtletimes.com/forums/topic/45422-diy-humidifier-for-large-enclosures/

OR http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog.../-/zoo-med-repti-fogger-terrarium-humidifier/

Or you could just do a mister system like the mistking if you can DIY pretty good. The humidifier or mister needs to be on a timer and just runs like 5min out of an hour or 20min 3-4 times a day. What ever it takes to hit like 65-70% humidity and then dry out down to 45%.