Panther Chameleon Vivarium Setup - Help!

[andrearamirezo91]

Hello everybody!

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post ever I have been into fishkeeping for many years and have been a very active member of fish forums, so I'm excited to see the people I'll get to meet here and the things I'll learn from you guys!

To keep it short, I have a beautiful panther chameleon in sight that I've been wanting to buy, but I've been really undecisive about the whole cage setup. It seems like there's so many mixed messages out there about screen/glass cages, substrate/no substrate, etc.

I'd like an all glass terrarium with live plants and a beautiful, lush rainforest setting with an automatic mister. I just honestly have NO idea what I'm doing and I need some direction. The chameleon is gonna be set up in my bedroom, where we have strong AC (especially at night).

What glass cages do you guys recommend?
Substrate?
How does a vivarium drain excess water?
What plants should I use?
How do I make the vivarium bioactive?
With vivariums like that, do you guys still scoop out the chameleon's poop or just let it decompose for plant fertilization?
I'm assuming if it's a glass terrarium I'd have to mist less often than if it was screened to keep the humidity at a good level, am I right?

Sorry, a lot of questions I know! Answers to any of these questions will greatly help!

Thank you so much for your time and again I'm so excited to be here!

 

[Remkon]

Welcome to the forums and to the amazing world of chameleons!
Good thing you start to plan things before buying an animal! I wish everybody would do this and take their time before taking the big plunge.

Well the 'problems' with glass (really, in my country 90% of enclosures are glass) are ventilation and drainage/hydration ...

Ventialtion is easy to solve, just use an exotera glass enclosure (or similar) that has a screen top and ventialtion from below (under the doors)

Drainage/hydration, is a bit more of a problem because when using glass in most cases you don't have drainage so frequent misting is not a real option because you'll just create a swamp or swimming pool or will keep the enclosure very wet which also isn't recommended. You'll have to play around with misting times more than when using screen and (I feel) a dripper is probably a must.

Substrate is also very possible, you just have to do it right.
There are enough people on this forum using a bio active setup with success... It's all about picking the right soil, having a good drainage layer and introducing insects that will be your cleanup crew (spring tails, sauropods etc).

A big fear people have is that their animal will get constipated by ingesting a piece of soil. While this is very well possible (chameleons can't spit and their teeth point backward so what get's into their mouth is hard for them to get out) it's probably rare if your enclosure is high enough (chameleons don't typically go down below) and you use a soil that doesn't have big pieces of wood in it, the soil should also be non-fertilized due to obvious reasons.
Also cup-feeding would limit the risk of this happening as he wouldn't hunt for his food a whole lot.

If you want to have a planted tank it's recommended to also use Jungle Dawn lights next to your heating and uvb light. Jungle Dawn is designed for plantgrowth (and also goes well with your reptiles), I've read people having amazing results.

Hope this helps you a bit.

 

[andrearamirezo91]

Hi Remkon thank you so much for your reply!

So how do people with glass vivariums do when it comes to drainage? I've been scratching my head for the past 30 minutes trying to read about that on the internet. I see some people drill a small hole on the bottom of their acrylic tank and put a little rubber plug in place, so that they can just pull it out and drain the tank when necessary. Sadly, I think an exo terra would be too heavy to move whenever I wanted to drain it. Also, since its glass and not acrylic drilling it would probably be harder, if not impossible. so would I just have to mist less? Like maybe only once a day? I live down in Florida so the climate here isn't really super dry, and if anything can get a little humid at times. However my family always keeps the house super cold and the AC running at a pretty low temp.

I was looking into this glass enclosure as well. It seems similar to the exo terra but a little cheaper. I just wonder if the ventilation will be as good. What do you think?

https://zoomed.com/skyscraper-terrarium/

 

[jamest0o0]

What glass cages do you guys recommend?
Substrate?
How does a vivarium drain excess water?
What plants should I use?
How do I make the vivarium bioactive?
With vivariums like that, do you guys still scoop out the chameleon's poop or just let it decompose for plant fertilization?
I'm assuming if it's a glass terrarium I'd have to mist less often than if it was screened to keep the humidity at a good level, am I right?

Welcome! I was into SW aquariums before this hobby and have found that a nicely set up bioactive(basically meaning substrate+balanced ecosystem of fauna/flora) enclosure was very similar to a coral reef, but on land. Down to the aerobic bacteria in the soil. Sounds like what you're looking for. I'd look into a solid side dragonstrand enclosure(the large atrium is awesome for panthers). It holds humidity well, makes a great display, and allows you an easier time with drainage. Like Remkon mentioned, glass enclosures can be a little more complicated with water control/drainage.

-So for the cage, I would recommend clearsided dragonstrand
-substrate is a whole topic in itself, look into bioactive for starters. You'll want it deep enough for your plants' roots. People usually use clay balls as the drainage layer underneath the soil separated by vinyl screen. For soil, you can make your own or buy a mix. It depends on your watering. I like to use a lot of sand in my soil to help with drainage. I can give you more info on the soil itself later, or if you want to message me I can get back to you about it.
-there are so many plants you can choose from, there are safe plant lists, most use ficus and pothos, but there are many more. For a lot of the nice plants you will need equally nice lighting, soil, watering, etc. For a panther that rarely if ever bites plants, toxicity isn't much of an issue. But within reason, don't put a plant in there that is lethal if ingested. You'll see plants that are labeled toxic though that are probably fine for most chameleons. Just do a little research into which catch your eye at first and go from there providing what they need.
-bioactivity is basically an eco system, created beneficial fauna/flora. Springtails and isopods are the essential critters to add, but there's much more that you can add(and decide to show up on their own). Bacteria will cover the soil in time, like it does in aquariums. It's normal to have mold and fungi pop up early on.
-before the substrate matures, it helps to remove some of the poop or bury it, but a fully established enclosure will clean it up for you in a day or two. Go in at night and you'll see the CuC swarming anything they can lol.
-for misting Panthers, I like to have a ~10 minute misting in the morning when it's cool and they're just waking up. This is when they usually drink and the long misting sessions give them time to clean their eyes, drink, bathe, etc. Then I let things dry out for the warm day, and then finish with a 5 minute misting an hour or so before lights go out to cool things down and keep the humidity high at night(like it is in nature).

One thing to note, panther chameleons aren't from the lush rainforests like we tend to think. Montane chameleons are the ones from the classic dense, humid, and wet rainforests we envision. Panthers are mostly found in sunny, more dry climates, but with high humidity. I'm not saying don't add some nice large plants or mist regularly, but they seem to like open pathways, moving around, and sitting out displaying their colors. Just give them a spot to retreat to under plants if they'd like.

 

[Remkon]

Mostly they mist less.
I build my own enclosure so i have a wooden bottom and put plumbing on it.
Most people just drain into a bin, i drain into the backyard.

I do have 1 glass enclosure that I plan to use and had a similar concern as I dont want to mist less... I will try to drill a hole in the glass to fit plumbing, if that fails I will replace the broken glass and use a wooden bottom.

 

[andrearamirezo91]

@jamest0o0 yes! When I started reading about bio active soil it instantly took me back to learning about the nitrogen cycle and how to properly keep a planted aquarium. I never got the chance to get into salt water, I guess I was afraid of investing all the money and failing at it, but I had a beautiful panted freshwater aquarium that needed a lot of time and attention. I even made my own co2 by slowly mixing citric acid and baking soda within a pressurized system made with two big soda bottles. Worked beautifully until one day I made a tiny mistake cleaning it up and one of the bottles exploded while in my hand and darted down to my leg, leaving the worst bruise I've ever had in my life!

For substrate, can I find all of the materials I need at a home depot? Or do I need to go to a pet store or look online for something more specific? Excuse my ignorance, I'm a complete noob when it comes to vivariums but sooo hungry to learn!

Also, where can I find isopods and springtails? Is this what'll make my soil bio active or do I need to add anything else?

If I see mold or fungi starting to grow, do I need to do something about it or just let it be? I remember when I set up my planted tank I had diatoms growing on my driftwood and man it looked terrible. It took like 4-5 months to clear out and I had to get some snails to help but it wasn't harmful for my fish or any of the plants/shrimp I had in there.

Thank you so much for all of your detailed responses. I can't wait to learn more. I'll try to post a video of the little guy I want to buy later today so you can all see what a stunner he is


**Excuse my bad English. I'm from Venezuela and Spanish is my first language!

 

[jamest0o0]

Sorry just getting back to this. Your English is good, I'm mexican American and struggle with both English and Spanish lol.

Planted aquarium tanks are just as complicated as coral reefs. Bioactive substrate is much easier to set up than planted/sw aquariums.

You could probably find everything at home depot, it depends what you want to use though. You could definitely get play sand at home depot. I like to add almost a bag of sand per bag of soil for drainage when heavy misting. Could probably do with less though. A nice organic potting or top soil mixed with sand and some some coco fiber, along with some orchid bark spread throughout goes a long way. The ratios will depend on your particular set up. Ozmocote can be used for fertilizer if youd like. In my recent enclosure I cheated and bought sunshine mix #4 instead of making my own. I needed a lot. All I did was add sand to it. I also got some reptisoil because it has very fine particles that I wouldn't worry about my chameleon choking on or passing. So I took that and spread about an ~inch or 2 on top of my substrate(mushroom compost could work too). And then I have a leaf litter layer on top of that. You just don't want the soil to be too dense and compacted or it could turn anaerobic.

For the drainage layer you could get hydroton balls at a hydroponics store or order them. Some people use lava rock too which can be found at home depot.

Isopods and springtails could be found outside of you feel comfortable collecting from somewhere. Or you could order them, which might be better suited for a vivarium anyway. I like giant canyon isopods.

Springtails will clear out any mold fast as soon as they take hold. Just give them some time to populate. In the meantime I'd just mix the mold into the soil and cover it. I've never had a mold problem in my enclosures. I just let the fungi go, cleaner crews thrive off mushrooms and fungus.

Search some bioactive stuff on here, Google, YouTube, etc. Should get an understanding pretty fast. It's not as complicated as it seems.

Feel free to ask questions!

 

[random user name]

Hello, newbie here as well. I started getting ready, buying things (Enclosure, Temperature Controllers, Timers, Bulbs, Lamp Fixtures, Decor) in chunks, and reading all the info maybe like 6 months before getting a Chameleon, and it's a smart thing that you are doing the same! I cannot tell you how unready I still felt when I brought home my Panther Chameleon.

One thing I learned from these forums is, that we have to think about our Chameleons first, before we think of what looks pretty/cool. Function over Aesthetics.

I really wanted to do bioactive glass enclosure before I even knew I had to do research, and something I learned after reading about different chameleon set ups, is that air cycling (ventilation) and humidity are super important for these reptiles. It makes sense really, seeing that Chameleons are naturally found on trees and other higher vegetation, therefor are used to wind gusts and fresh air all the time.

I live in Western Washington where it's rainy most of the year (therefor super humid, not sure what Florida is like since I've never lived there, but I hear it's quite humid as well). And something I did first to help me figure out if I could even DO a glass enclosure Vs screen, was to find out the general humidity of where the Chameleon will reside. I knew I wanted to keep mine in my room, so I got a cheapish humidity gauge and stuck it in there for a few days, and learned my room is usually 50% humid or more on most days, this already told me that it would probably be best to use a screen enclosure since Chameleons can get respiratory infections with stagnant humid air .

Good luck choosing an enclosure! Don't let me discourage you from choosing a glass one, just trying to help out.

The take away point from this message is FUNCTION OVER AESTHETICS. Keep this in mind, and then go from there

 

[andrearamirezo91]

Thank you so much everybody!

I bought the cage that @jamest0o0 suggested. It actually looks quite nice at least compared to the all screen cage. Of course I would have preferred the glass enclosure but like @random user name suggested, I had to think about my chameleon first.

What do you guys use to gut load your crickets? I just bought the Fluker's calcium fortified yellow gel looking thing. Am I supposed to just dump some of that in with the crickets? Is that all he will need when it comes to nutrition? I know I'm supposed to keep his diet as varied as possible. Do you gut load all your other insects as well? And how?

Thank you thank you thank you

 

[jamest0o0]

Hate to tell you, but that flukers stuff is not good for feeders. Look for gutload lists on here. There are so many. Organic veggies, little fruit, nuts, seeds, and bee pollen are great. Crickets, roaches, and superworms will generally eat the same things. some feeders are more picky, depends what insects you're using.

 

[blue_cham]

I'd love to see pictures of your new cage! I have been eyeing Dragon Strand cages myself

 

[bluepanther91]

The downside to glass cages is that it can't be taken outside. The chameleon will fry in the glass cage if it is brought outside exposed to the sun.

 

[Jennyontheblock]

Welcome to the forums and to the amazing world of chameleons!
Good thing you start to plan things before buying an animal! I wish everybody would do this and take their time before taking the big plunge.

Well the 'problems' with glass (really, in my country 90% of enclosures are glass) are ventilation and drainage/hydration ...

Ventialtion is easy to solve, just use an exotera glass enclosure (or similar) that has a screen top and ventialtion from below (under the doors)

Drainage/hydration, is a bit more of a problem because when using glass in most cases you don't have drainage so frequent misting is not a real option because you'll just create a swamp or swimming pool or will keep the enclosure very wet which also isn't recommended. You'll have to play around with misting times more than when using screen and (I feel) a dripper is probably a must.

Substrate is also very possible, you just have to do it right.
There are enough people on this forum using a bio active setup with success... It's all about picking the right soil, having a good drainage layer and introducing insects that will be your cleanup crew (spring tails, sauropods etc).

A big fear people have is that their animal will get constipated by ingesting a piece of soil. While this is very well possible (chameleons can't spit and their teeth point backward so what get's into their mouth is hard for them to get out) it's probably rare if your enclosure is high enough (chameleons don't typically go down below) and you use a soil that doesn't have big pieces of wood in it, the soil should also be non-fertilized due to obvious reasons.
Also cup-feeding would limit the risk of this happening as he wouldn't hunt for his food a whole lot.

If you want to have a planted tank it's recommended to also use Jungle Dawn lights next to your heating and uvb light. Jungle Dawn is designed for plantgrowth (and also goes well with your reptiles), I've read people having amazing results.

Hope this helps you a bit.

I put 3-4" pieces of fire bark on top so nothing can get ingested

 

[Zevil]

having a good drainage layer and introducing insects that will be your cleanup crew (spring tails, sauropods etc).
QUOTE]

Sauropods. That must be a pretty big enclosure haha.

Anyway to the OP, set up the whole bioactive enclosure first, leave it for awhile before getting the chameleon. Just in case something goes wrong and you have time to fix it without worrying about the chameleon.

 

[jamest0o0]

What's with all of the resurrection of old threads lately? We need a big flashing sign that says "you're about to bump year+ old thread"

 

[Calypratus]

for substrate I just use newspaper makes spot-cleaning and other things much easier.

 

[Thehippie]

What's with all of the resurrection of old threads lately? We need a big flashing sign that says "you're about to bump year+ old thread"

at least this isnt one of those decade old threads that people pull up, although i think within this month i have seen around 4 or 5 of these old threads lol

 

[raven1139]

Here is my setup and I transitioned from reef tanks too! Cheaper that’s for sure when it comes to plants!!

 

[jamest0o0]

What's with all of the resurrection of old threads lately? We need a big flashing sign that says "you're about to bump year+ old thread"

I guess nobody reads

 

[SharpShooter]

The downside to glass cages is that it can't be taken outside. The chameleon will fry in the glass cage if it is brought outside exposed to the sun.

The cham won't fry cos there's not a snowballs chance in hell of moving an XL XT Exoterra bioactive lol.