Panther Cross breeding

[Jamielee]

I find this thread very interesting...

I actually ordered one of G'Kar's male offspring.. and I also have a Puggle. A "HYBRID/DESIGNER" dog and she's the smartest dog I have ever been around. I love purebreds and mutts (I've owned both). it makes no difference to me but I think it's hilarious how strongly some people feel about cross breeding. It's natural. get over it I have no interest in breeding my chameleon, that's why getting a cross breed was not a issue. I can't wait to see how he turns out!!

 

[Ace]

I find this thread very interesting...

I actually order one of G'Kar's male offspring.. and I also have a Puggle. A "HYBRID/DESIGNER" dog and she's the smartest dog I have ever been around. I love purebreds and mutts (I've owned both). it makes no difference to me but I think it's hilarious how strongly some people feel about cross breeding. It's natural. get over it I have no interest in breeding my chameleon, that's why getting a cross breed was not a issue. I can't wait to see how he turns out!!

and this my friend is why so many threads like these never seem to end, you only provide a leverage for those that want to tell that crossbreeding isnt natural, and so on, its true that it makes not difference to you, but ot others like cham breeders or even dog breeders, i bet it does.

p.s: i always wanted a puggle, they look funny

 

[camimom]

thanks for the info, i honestly did not know that, but my prefernce i rather pick up a mutt from a shelter than pure breeds any day, just not my cup of tea

You're welcome. I understand the affinity for pound pups, I foster dogs through a rescue myself, I just like a certain type of dog, (granted, the english setter puppy I got itsnt what I originially wanted, the breeder keeps several types, I normally gt german shorthair pointers, but my husband want4ed something different, and the shorthairs do not end up in shelters most of the time) anyway, if i had it my way, I would adopt everythin in a shelter.
I think people like you are great, adopting pups from shelters, Just 'not my cup of tea'

 

[DeviousMike]

My male panther is 82.5 ambilobe, 17.5 ambanja. I think he is absolutely awesome in terms of his coloration. The only complaint I would have is that he is not friendly, but he's a chameleon so that comes with the territory. Other than that, he is absolutely healthy.

 

[Ace]

My male panther is 82.5 ambilobe, 17.5 ambanja. I think he is absolutely awesome in terms of his coloration. The only complaint I would have is that he is not friendly, but he's a chameleon so that comes with the territory. Other than that, he is absolutely healthy.

plus isnt he a lucifer baby, who knows maybe the meanness passes on jk

 

[Ace]

You're welcome. I understand the affinity for pound pups, I foster dogs through a rescue myself, I just like a certain type of dog, (granted, the english setter puppy I got itsnt what I originially wanted, the breeder keeps several types, I normally gt german shorthair pointers, but my husband want4ed something different, and the shorthairs do not end up in shelters most of the time) anyway, if i had it my way, I would adopt everythin in a shelter.
I think people like you are great, adopting pups from shelters, Just 'not my cup of tea'

dont get wrong i know there are some dog breeders that do it the right way in terms of breeding, and caring for the animals. i myself am a pitbull and bulldog lover.

 

[junglejoe]

ive never heard of any crosses being ill due to being a cross/morph.. i personally breed ambilobe..to ambilobe.. but also have a male ambanja that i breed to my other ambilobe female.. with the intent of creating crosses.. yes some look bland.. but crossing them also produces amaizing colors... put yourself in a parents shoes.. standing in a pet store.. you have a veiled cham selling for $100...and right next to it a colorfull panther..for the same price..what is the parent going to choose..not everyone buys chams to breed them.. my personal opinion is crossing chams is just fine.. no one on here can say in the wild they dont cross one anothers path and hook up now and then.. crosses are inevitable... think about it your panther came from another.. follow the blood line.. its probably a cross somewhere.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

If I wasnt into breeding I'd like a cross. And it would be fun to see what would come from a crossed pairing. But I like to breed my chams and I dont want to be responsible for producing crossed females. That may or may not be sold as something they arent. We often see posts of people who buy a cham and then find its too much work and sell it as an adult. What if the female that you sold as a cross was resold as a pure? I'd feel bad even though it wasnt really my deception. But Im the one who produced that cross and wrecked someones breeding project.

 

[junglejoe]

understandable... yes i have heard of people getting so called screwed when lied to by others.. when i sell my chams they come with date born... sire and dame bloodlines.. all on a card.. marked morph cross breed.. im an honest seller and if someone else buys and sell my lines under false info.. thats on them..yes they were wrong to lie.. but not my fault.. i breed non crosses as well.. i have lines that i will die before they get crossed.. it all comes down to buyer preferance.. if people wanted crosses.. well im sure alot of people would be crossing....$$$$

 

[Chris Anderson]

Those of you who are making claims that cross breeding is natural or statements like "no one on here can say in the wild they dont cross one anothers path and hook up now and then.. crosses are inevitable..." should probably do some research on the topic. Here are a couple relevant posts/threads to get you started:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/harder-care-panther-morphs-52115/index2.html#post490183
https://www.chameleonforums.com/hybrid-panther-chameleons-51610/index2.html#post483943
https://www.chameleonforums.com/naturally-occuring-panther-hybrids-13765/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cross-breeding-40955/

Chris

 

[camimom]

dont get wrong i know there are some dog breeders that do it the right way in terms of breeding, and caring for the animals. i myself am a pitbull and bulldog lover.

I think pits and bullies are great. Very misunderstood dogs. Thats great that you take them in. I love all dogs. hehe, if i had time and space, id own a little bit of everything.

 

[junglejoe]

Granted the only proof we have that its not happening is that we dont see them in the trade, and dont read about the new discoveries.... it most likely happening in the wild..just not being named to the locale..how do you think species come about... i mean seriously.. an egg just doesnt firtalize itself.. if a ambanja and an ambilobe see one another and the female is receptive.. guess whats going to happen.. a new species or LOCALE...i read the crappy links you posted and no where does it help your comment...i copied the first sentance from one of those links.

 

[junglejoe]

here is another i copied.. if your going to tell me to DO RESERCH send me some actual links not tutarials from others that agree with me..here is the sentance i just copied...There's nothing actually bad about breeding different panther locals together. Its just the some people very strongly prefer a static "pure" local and would like everyone else to feel the same

 

[Chris Anderson]

Granted the only proof we have that its not happening is that we dont see them in the trade, and dont read about the new discoveries.... it most likely happening in the wild..just not being named to the locale..how do you think species come about... i mean seriously.. an egg just doesnt firtalize itself.. if a ambanja and an ambilobe see one another and the female is receptive.. guess whats going to happen.. a new species or LOCALE...i read the crappy links you posted and no where does it help your comment...i copied the first sentance from one of those links.

Joe,

First, don't lie, you didn't read the 232 posts included in those threads in 14 minutes and if you think you did, you should go back and try again because its clear from your response you didn't

Second, while the only proof you might have that its not happening is what you see in the trade or read on a forum, some of us have been to Madagascar, seen these locales in the flesh, unpacked shipments from Madagascar, have degrees in the topics you so poorly understand and actually researched the topic.

When you've actually read the threads and have any intelligent points to discuss, I'd love to help educate you about the topic.

Chris

 

[JackP308]

Granted the only proof we have that its not happening is that we dont see them in the trade, and dont read about the new discoveries.... it most likely happening in the wild..just not being named to the locale..how do you think species come about... i mean seriously.. an egg just doesnt firtalize itself.. if a ambanja and an ambilobe see one another and the female is receptive.. guess whats going to happen.. a new species or LOCALE...i read the crappy links you posted and no where does it help your comment...i copied the first sentance from one of those links.

if they had better means of transportation I bet you some or all would sleep all over the island

 

[Chris Anderson]

here is another i copied.. if your going to tell me to DO RESERCH send me some actual links not tutarials from others that agree with me..here is the sentance i just copied...There's nothing actually bad about breeding different panther locals together. Its just the some people very strongly prefer a static "pure" local and would like everyone else to feel the same

No problem, you could actually read those threads I linked you to (they are a lot more complex than the first 2 posts in each) and then you can go buy and read "The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation, and Captive Management" by Gary W. Ferguson, James B. Murphy, Jean-Baptiste Ramanamanjato, and Achille P. Raselimanana.

Chris

 

[junglejoe]

i didnt have to read all the posts.. why should i when the first 20 agree with me.. im proud of you to of gone to school and received a phd... quite frankly im not impressed... new species just dont appear.. they have to be breed.. point blank.. in the wild it does happen.. obviously a nosey isnt going to swim from an island and go breed on the main island... da!!! but when a male and female cross in the wild they do breed.. and yes I myself with out a phd has enough sense to know in the wild they breed.. no different than put in other posts like dogs... a pug will mate with a colie ..or a bull dog with a shitzu..its nature and if your phd tells you otherwise.. go to a better school...

 

[JackP308]

new species just dont appear.. they have to be breed.. point blank.. in the wild it does happen.

Breeding different locales creates new species

 

[junglejoe]

oh and if you want me to do so called reaserch send me links to web sites.. not past topics on the forums.. being im so poorly educated in chameleons...there is no proof anywhere that they do not breed in the wild.. to cover it up.. all you P.H.D people judt give the new species a name...

 

[Chris Anderson]

i didnt have to read all the posts.. why should i when the first 20 agree with me.. im proud of you to of gone to school and received a phd... quite frankly im not impressed... new species just dont appear.. they have to be breed.. point blank.. in the wild it does happen.. obviously a nosey isnt going to swim from an island and go breed on the main island... da!!! but when a male and female cross in the wild they do breed.. and yes I myself with out a phd has enough sense to know in the wild they breed.. no different than put in other posts like dogs... a pug will mate with a colie ..or a bull dog with a shitzu..its nature and if your phd tells you otherwise.. go to a better school...

You're right, why would you try reading the threads to make sure you don't look like a complete fool before spouting off in a public temper tantrum. Fortunately, since you won't read my explanations anyway or stop to think before speaking, I won't waste either or our time trying to explain how the rest of your "logic" in this post is flawed.

Chris