Panther Not Eating?

[Beman]

I use a calcium supplement every feeding apart from the Repashy supplement, which I use 2x a month, pictures included. I've also attached a spreadsheet I started not too long ago to track behaviors and pictures of the room he is in case someone can see something that may be bothering him that I am not seeing.

The lady who owned him before me said she got his UVB lights in October 2022 when she purchased him so it should not need to be replaced yet. I am getting close to that 6-month replacement mark though, so should I just replace it now?

Understood about the pothos, I'll move it now. He does have a whole network of branches behind all of the plants too they are all just more in the front of the enclosure.

My vet did run a fecal test, he is clear of parasites. For our appointment on Tuesday, we were planning on running bloodwork next if his behaviors didn't change this week with decreasing the traffic by the room he is in.

Ok the supplements are perfect and the rotation is as well. I just wanted to double check this and the bulb. So you could always go ahead and replace the bulb just to make sure this is not the issue. Just because of the lack of coordination and appetite.
Glad he is clear of parasites as well.

The giant pothos is now moved. Does this look like an ok amount of coverage?

This is perfect. This gives him the entire top level to find his spots. It will allow for him to regulate heat but also have full exposure to the uvb bulb. Before the UVB was quite obstructed by the plant.


Your tracking chart is super impressive... So he is almost at the year mark which may be why your seeing reduced eating. They will curb themselves back because they no longer use the food for growth. I am seeing that he eats though. Granted the first months was very hit and miss on if he ate. The move or even a new feeder cup can explain this. Now moving into Feb... He is eating as I would expect. You see one day on then next day none then next day eats well. This is typically when we start moving them to an every other day feeding schedule. Which we work them into every other day of 4-5 feeders.

Watch your basking temps... 90 is a bit hot... I would aim for more of 80-83 max at the branch. because where they rise up is hotter.

Now then the closing the eyes... It is not uncommon for them to bed down earlier or even slow to get up and moving. Especially with night time temps are dropping low 60's. Can take them a bit to get up and moving.

Now one thing I see is that he did not successfully take feeders with the multivitamin until 2/5. So hopefully this will help him out. The vitamin A is needed.


I do not think it is a bad idea to do bloodwork... just note this may cause quite a bit of stress for him. I see an upturn in his eating now. My concern is there was a downturn in all activity after the last vet visit. So I would expect the same. Make sure you put him in a dark box stick pushed through the bottom about an inch from the bottom. This way he will sleep on the way to the vet and back. Less stress and stimulation that way.

The pictures on the wall.... If those are directly in front of his cage. Try taking them down for a few days and see if anything changes.

 

[elizaann2]

Ok the supplements are perfect and the rotation is as well. I just wanted to double check this and the bulb. So you could always go ahead and replace the bulb just to make sure this is not the issue. Just because of the lack of coordination and appetite.
Glad he is clear of parasites as well.

This is perfect. This gives him the entire top level to find his spots. It will allow for him to regulate heat but also have full exposure to the uvb bulb. Before the UVB was quite obstructed by the plant.


Your tracking chart is super impressive... So he is almost at the year mark which may be why your seeing reduced eating. They will curb themselves back because they no longer use the food for growth. I am seeing that he eats though. Granted the first months was very hit and miss on if he ate. The move or even a new feeder cup can explain this. Now moving into Feb... He is eating as I would expect. You see one day on then next day none then next day eats well. This is typically when we start moving them to an every other day feeding schedule. Which we work them into every other day of 4-5 feeders.

Watch your basking temps... 90 is a bit hot... I would aim for more of 80-83 max at the branch. because where they rise up is hotter.

Now then the closing the eyes... It is not uncommon for them to bed down earlier or even slow to get up and moving. Especially with night time temps are dropping low 60's. Can take them a bit to get up and moving.

Now one thing I see is that he did not successfully take feeders with the multivitamin until 2/5. So hopefully this will help him out. The vitamin A is needed.


I do not think it is a bad idea to do bloodwork... just note this may cause quite a bit of stress for him. I see an upturn in his eating now. My concern is there was a downturn in all activity after the last vet visit. So I would expect the same. Make sure you put him in a dark box stick pushed through the bottom about an inch from the bottom. This way he will sleep on the way to the vet and back. Less stress and stimulation that way.

The pictures on the wall.... If those are directly in front of his cage. Try taking them down for a few days and see if anything changes.

Hello Beman,

Thank you so much for helping me! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

I will order a replacement UVB bulb today just in case this is part of the problem.

Understood with the basking temp at 90. I'll keep a close eye on it and make sure it doesn't get that high again.

He is slower to get up in the mornings, and I feel like he goes to bed SUPER early at night. He often goes to his sleeping spot around 2 pm and stays there until the end of the night. When he is in his sleeping spot during the day I have noticed his eyes are closed (lethargy). I have a video I'll try and post to show what I am talking about. If I walk into the room quietly he doesn't wake up. His lights are on a 12-hour schedule 7 am-7 pm, so I worry that going to sleep at 2 pm is too early. I also feel like he was a lot more active in late December and most of January, which is why I started tracking as much as I possibly could through that spreadsheet, I just felt like something was off with the typical behavior that I had seen from him when I first got him.

That is an excellent point that he did not eat the Repashy-dusted bugs for a while. I am hoping that this was part of the problem combined with the pothos overtaking the top part of his enclosure.

Because my only symptom is his eyes closed during the day, do you think I should push his appointment back a few more days to see if the supplement and UVB change helps him at all? I hate to stress him out further knowing a blood draw and vet visit is a high stressors, but at the same time, if he has some kind of internal infection, I don't want that to go unchecked for long.

I do have a 'vet' box that I use to take him to his vet appointments. It's a cardboard box with a towel for padding on the bottom and a single stick for him to hang on to while we are moving him from home to the vet's office as well as a thermometer I use to track the temp inside his box to ensure he doesn't get too hot or too cold.

The pictures directly across from his enclosure have been taken down.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello Beman,

Thank you so much for helping me! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

I will order a replacement UVB bulb today just in case this is part of the problem.

Understood with the basking temp at 90. I'll keep a close eye on it and make sure it doesn't get that high again.

He is slower to get up in the mornings, and I feel like he goes to bed SUPER early at night. He often goes to his sleeping spot around 2 pm and stays there until the end of the night. When he is in his sleeping spot during the day I have noticed his eyes are closed (lethargy). I have a video I'll try and post to show what I am talking about. If I walk into the room quietly he doesn't wake up. His lights are on a 12-hour schedule 7 am-7 pm, so I worry that going to sleep at 2 pm is too early. I also feel like he was a lot more active in late December and most of January, which is why I started tracking as much as I possibly could through that spreadsheet, I just felt like something was off with the typical behavior that I had seen from him when I first got him.

That is an excellent point that he did not eat the Repashy-dusted bugs for a while. I am hoping that this was part of the problem combined with the pothos overtaking the top part of his enclosure.

Because my only symptom is his eyes closed during the day, do you think I should push his appointment back a few more days to see if the supplement and UVB change helps him at all? I hate to stress him out further knowing a blood draw and vet visit is a high stressors, but at the same time, if he has some kind of internal infection, I don't want that to go unchecked for long.

I do have a 'vet' box that I use to take him to his vet appointments. It's a cardboard box with a towel for padding on the bottom and a single stick for him to hang on to while we are moving him from home to the vet's office as well as a thermometer I use to track the temp inside his box to ensure he doesn't get too hot or too cold.

The pictures directly across from his enclosure have been taken down.

Here is the video I took yesterday at 3:34 pm. We have been seeing this for over a week now for sure.

 

[Beman]

Here is the video I took yesterday at 3:34 pm. We have been seeing this for over a week now for sure.

You will need to set the video to public for us to view it.

 

[Beman]

Hello Beman,

Thank you so much for helping me! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

I will order a replacement UVB bulb today just in case this is part of the problem.

Understood with the basking temp at 90. I'll keep a close eye on it and make sure it doesn't get that high again.

He is slower to get up in the mornings, and I feel like he goes to bed SUPER early at night. He often goes to his sleeping spot around 2 pm and stays there until the end of the night. When he is in his sleeping spot during the day I have noticed his eyes are closed (lethargy). I have a video I'll try and post to show what I am talking about. If I walk into the room quietly he doesn't wake up. His lights are on a 12-hour schedule 7 am-7 pm, so I worry that going to sleep at 2 pm is too early. I also feel like he was a lot more active in late December and most of January, which is why I started tracking as much as I possibly could through that spreadsheet, I just felt like something was off with the typical behavior that I had seen from him when I first got him.

That is an excellent point that he did not eat the Repashy-dusted bugs for a while. I am hoping that this was part of the problem combined with the pothos overtaking the top part of his enclosure.

Because my only symptom is his eyes closed during the day, do you think I should push his appointment back a few more days to see if the supplement and UVB change helps him at all? I hate to stress him out further knowing a blood draw and vet visit is a high stressors, but at the same time, if he has some kind of internal infection, I don't want that to go unchecked for long.

I do have a 'vet' box that I use to take him to his vet appointments. It's a cardboard box with a towel for padding on the bottom and a single stick for him to hang on to while we are moving him from home to the vet's office as well as a thermometer I use to track the temp inside his box to ensure he doesn't get too hot or too cold.

The pictures directly across from his enclosure have been taken down.

So I do not want to tell you not to take him... All I can say is from my point of view if it were a cham I was dealing with. If it were Beman I would monitor closely and see if there is a change now that there have been some cage adjustments. UVB is an extremely important aspect for them. The bulb not only puts out UVB but UVA. UVA is what actually stimulates them to eat and function. The UVB is what they convert internally to usable vitamin D which then prevents MBD and issues with bones and calcium deficiency. This is of course putting it all very simply lol. So if this were Beman I would personally push the appointment a few days and see if there is a change. However... I am not seeing what you are. And if you have a gut feeling saying something is wrong then you should take him to the vet.

 

[elizaann2]

You will need to set the video to public for us to view it.

Hahaha! Can you tell that I have no experience with social media?? I've updated this now to public. You should be able to view it now or soon, not sure how long it takes to update the video.

 

[elizaann2]

So I do not want to tell you not to take him... All I can say is from my point of view if it were a cham I was dealing with. If it were Beman I would monitor closely and see if there is a change now that there have been some cage adjustments. UVB is an extremely important aspect for them. The bulb not only puts out UVB but UVA. UVA is what actually stimulates them to eat and function. The UVB is what they convert internally to usable vitamin D which then prevents MBD and issues with bones and calcium deficiency. This is of course putting it all very simply lol. So if this were Beman I would personally push the appointment a few days and see if there is a change. However... I am not seeing what you are. And if you have a gut feeling saying something is wrong then you should take him to the vet.

Hi Beman,

Thank you for your response. My appointment was at 9 am MST today, so I did end up taking him. Unfortunately, I had to leave him there because the blood draw stressed him out pretty bad and they only got half of what they needed for the blood draw. They are going to give him a few hours to calm down and then will try for the rest. I should be able to pick him up sometime today. When I get him home I will leave him completely alone apart from daily misting and feeding him every other day.

I hope that all that needed to change was plant moving. I did know the UVB was very important but did not know about the UVA, so that is helpful information to know about, thank you!

He didn't move from his sleeping spot at all yesterday but still looks 'healthy' (no sunken eyes or any other physical signs that he is ill).

I am trying to find a replacement bulb for his enclosure but am having a hard time finding the right size for some reason.

 

[Beman]

Hi Beman,

Thank you for your response. My appointment was at 9 am MST today, so I did end up taking him. Unfortunately, I had to leave him there because the blood draw stressed him out pretty bad and they only got half of what they needed for the blood draw. They are going to give him a few hours to calm down and then will try for the rest. I should be able to pick him up sometime today. When I get him home I will leave him completely alone apart from daily misting and feeding him every other day.

I hope that all that needed to change was plant moving. I did know the UVB was very important but did not know about the UVA, so that is helpful information to know about, thank you!

He didn't move from his sleeping spot at all yesterday but still looks 'healthy' (no sunken eyes or any other physical signs that he is ill).

I am trying to find a replacement bulb for his enclosure but am having a hard time finding the right size for some reason.

uggg. yeah I had a similar experience with Beman and a blood draw. Very sucky. I am so sorry to hear about this.

After seeing the video I think it is good you took him in. After all that is quite early to be fully tucked in with eyes closed.


Which length for the uvb bulb are you needing I can help?

 

[elizaann2]

Hi Beman,

Ok, that is good to hear that taking him to the vet was a good call. He has been doing that for about 2 weeks now. The times he goes there is different every day but it's between 1-5 pm.

I just got him home from the vet, he didn't look stressed in his box so that is good. I have my camera set up so I can spy on him from a distance and keep an eye on the temperatures in his enclosure. I am assuming that tomorrow he won't move at all based on the stress he went through today.

The length for the UVB I needed is 34", however after about an hour I finally found a website that had them in stock and ordered two so I have a backup. Thank you so much for offering!

I'll continue to monitor him with my spreadsheet and will update you on how he is doing.

Thank you again so much for all of your help and advice! I adore this little guy and just want him to thrive and have a good chameleon life!

 

[Beman]

Hi Beman,

Ok, that is good to hear that taking him to the vet was a good call. He has been doing that for about 2 weeks now. The times he goes there is different every day but it's between 1-5 pm.

I just got him home from the vet, he didn't look stressed in his box so that is good. I have my camera set up so I can spy on him from a distance and keep an eye on the temperatures in his enclosure. I am assuming that tomorrow he won't move at all based on the stress he went through today.

The length for the UVB I needed is 34", however after about an hour I finally found a website that had them in stock and ordered two so I have a backup. Thank you so much for offering!

I'll continue to monitor him with my spreadsheet and will update you on how he is doing.

Thank you again so much for all of your help and advice! I adore this little guy and just want him to thrive and have a good chameleon life!

good to hear. Glad he is home. Hopefully the blood draw will give some clues on what is going on.
And for future reference. I use the 34 inch bulbs as well. I get mine from Pangea reptile. They have always had them in stock when I need them.

 

[elizaann2]

good to hear. Glad he is home. Hopefully the blood draw will give some clues on what is going on.
And for future reference. I use the 34 inch bulbs as well. I get mine from Pangea reptile. They have always had them in stock when I need them.

Thank you so much! I'll add that website to my spreadsheet so I don't have issues with finding lights in the future!

 

[elizaann2]

Update on my sweet little guy:

After he came home from the vet on Tuesday, he climbed up to his lights and basked and sat under the UVB until about 5:30 and then climbed down to his sleeping spot for the rest of the night (his lights go off at 7 pm)

Wednesday: Up as soon as his lights were on, basked in the morning and afternoon, and was up on the top branches all day until about 4:45, then went to his sleeping spot for the night. Ate crickets and 2 super worms dusted with calcium in the morning.

Thursday: Up as soon as his lights were on, basked, and has been on his 'favorite' stick up by his lights so far all day (right now it's 12:19 MST).

No update on his bloodwork yet from the vet, I should hear from them either today or tomorrow, but just from moving that large pothos I have seen drastic improvements and would say I am seeing more of the behaviors I saw from him when we first got him. (Hooray!!)

 

[Beman]

Update on my sweet little guy:

After he came home from the vet on Tuesday, he climbed up to his lights and basked and sat under the UVB until about 5:30 and then climbed down to his sleeping spot for the rest of the night (his lights go off at 7 pm)

Wednesday: Up as soon as his lights were on, basked in the morning and afternoon, and was up on the top branches all day until about 4:45, then went to his sleeping spot for the night. Ate crickets and 2 super worms dusted with calcium in the morning.

Thursday: Up as soon as his lights were on, basked, and has been on his 'favorite' stick up by his lights so far all day (right now it's 12:19 MST).

No update on his bloodwork yet from the vet, I should hear from them either today or tomorrow, but just from moving that large pothos I have seen drastic improvements and would say I am seeing more of the behaviors I saw from him when we first got him. (Hooray!!)

So happy to read your update. I am glad you made the change to the top pothos in the cage. I think having the entire basking level is really giving him options. It also allows for more light to go down into the plants so it is not too dark at the bottom where they light to tuck in.

 

[elizaann2]

So happy to read your update. I am glad you made the change to the top pothos in the cage. I think having the entire basking level is really giving him options. It also allows for more light to go down into the plants so it is not too dark at the bottom where they light to tuck in.

Totally! Thank you so much for the advice. I hate how dark it looks now that I wrapped it in the black garbage bags to try and block his vision because I was worried he was getting too stressed. After I get him all in the clear I plan on updating those ugly black bags with white corrugated plastic instead, but for now, it works

 

[Beman]

Totally! Thank you so much for the advice. I hate how dark it looks now that I wrapped it in the black garbage bags to try and block his vision because I was worried he was getting too stressed. After I get him all in the clear I plan on updating those ugly black bags with white corrugated plastic instead, but for now, it works

Yeah I love the corrugated plastic panels and they are pretty cheap if you go to home depot. They have a 4x8ft sheet you can buy and then you can cut out all of your side and back panels from it. I find that the white sides really help bounce light down to the bottom of the cage.

 

[elizaann2]

Yeah I love the corrugated plastic panels and they are pretty cheap if you go to home depot. They have a 4x8ft sheet you can buy and then you can cut out all of your side and back panels from it. I find that the white sides really help bounce light down to the bottom of the cage.

Exactly what I was thinking. I just did this with my Veiled Chams enclosure and was very happy with how bright it made her enclosure. I just want to wait to make sure I am in the clear with this little guy before I mess with his enclosure more and cause more stress. He got up again first thing this morning and is currently hanging out by his lights so I am assuming all is well... I'm just waiting for that call from with vet with his bloodwork. Fingers crossed!

 

[Beman]

Exactly what I was thinking. I just did this with my Veiled Chams enclosure and was very happy with how bright it made her enclosure. I just want to wait to make sure I am in the clear with this little guy before I mess with his enclosure more and cause more stress. He got up again first thing this morning and is currently hanging out by his lights so I am assuming all is well... I'm just waiting for that call from with vet with his bloodwork. Fingers crossed!

I am really wondering if the issues were all linked to him not getting the uvb he needed. He is acting the way he should now so I am just thankful for that. I really hope the bloodwork comes back ok.

 

[elizaann2]

I am really wondering if the issues were all linked to him not getting the uvb he needed. He is acting the way he should now so I am just thankful for that. I really hope the bloodwork comes back ok.

I love/hate it when the issues are related to something silly like that.

Love because it’s an easy fix
Hate because I caused it

 

[Beman]

I love/hate it when the issues are related to something silly like that.

Love because it’s an easy fix
Hate because I caused it

Ehhh we all do weird stuff. LOL myself included. But that is what you are in the forum for so others can point out potential issues.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello Everyone!

I have some very happy news to share! I just got a call from my vet. She said the bloodwork came back and showed that apart from slightly elevated cholesterol levels he is a VERY healthy chameleon.

Treebeard does prefer to eat super worms which I am sure is why his cholesterol is slightly elevated. As I was trying to figure out why he was sleeping so much, I just wanted to make sure he was eating and getting his supplements. Now that he is acting normal again (pothos plant blocking UVB light), I know he is parasite free and his bloodwork is good, I will work on his diet to be mostly crickets and dubias with an occasional treat bug.

The vet went over all of my husbandry for him again and gave the compliment that I was doing everything exactly right and she wished she could see visits like this more often and could tell that I cared a lot about him and was doing my best to give him the best care possible.

To celebrate, we gave Treebeard a newly hatched silkworm moth. (picture attached)

I want to thank everyone who gave me support and feedback on this page. You have all been so so helpful.

@Beman - I am so thankful for all the time you set aside to help me problem-solve with Treebeard. THANK YOU!!!!