Panther prices?

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Just curious… what is a normal price for a panther these days? Including paying a little extra for some standouts/rare locales? I love browsing them online and I see some nice looking panthers that people have up for 1200+? Is that just a ridiculous price or is that somewhat normal nowadays for a standout? I remember back in the day $300 was standard for a nice looking panther with the occasional 400-450 max for something one of a kind.
 
The prices are still going for $125-$400. However from one of my recent Expo Reptile Shows there are vendors selling about the same Ambilobe and Ambanja Furcifer pardalis for up to $800-$1600. My Blue Bar Red Bodied Ambilobe "Enigma" I purchased at around a couple hundred dollarsish and I think has got color patterning that tops the Furcifer pardalis going at top dollar. I think mostly the high prices is what goes in the cooking of the high priced Furcifer pardalis.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/furcifer-pardalis-enigma.192124/

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
Just curious… what is a normal price for a panther these days? Including paying a little extra for some standouts/rare locales? I love browsing them online and I see some nice looking panthers that people have up for 1200+? Is that just a ridiculous price or is that somewhat normal nowadays for a standout? I remember back in the day $300 was standard for a nice looking panther with the occasional 400-450 max for something one of a kind.
The last reptile expo I went to in November (in white plains NY) is when I bought my ambliobe YBBB panther he was $500 and before I chose him I had my eye on a blurple that was $1,100 and there were a couple other beautiful options within the $800-$1000 range. females they had I think were $200-$300. The breeder was Busy Bs exotics and their chams all looked extremely healthy, bright eyed and active. It feels more worth it to spend the money when you can see them right in front of you and meet the breeder to know they are well bred and healthy. I’d be more weary to order chams online… not before reading plenty of good reviews at least. But at least at the expo I went to it was slim pickings for chams. Busy Bs was the only breeder that strictly has chameleons. There was one or two other tables that had maybe one Cham and they didn’t look nearly as healthy.
 
Our prices vary depending on locale, age, color, uniformity of pattern and generation from wild caught parents F1,F2 etc. then the demand for individually raised panther chameleon babies has increased the cost a great deal for hatching and raising the babies with there own enclosures,lighting and misting set ups. On average it takes us some were around $275-$400 each to raise and feed well started babies and juveniles to 3 months/12 grams to recommend and bare minimum safe selling age and size of panther chameleon babies. And that price doesn’t even include gut loading ingredients for the feeder insects or the shipping cost on 50,000 crickets a week plus a variety to add just because we love doing it (Silkworms,hornworms,dubia, grasshoppers etc. or the time cleaning cages or multiple Ro system filter replacements a year. Or the purchase and treatment and time to get our breeding wild caught breeders healthy to be able to offer locale specific panther chameleons not color morphed or crossed. The highest priced panther chameleons we have listed is $1200 but that is about the max for a sub adult captive bred individually raised male panther chameleon that has amazing color pattern and matches the standard of locale found in the wild. On average ours are priced from $400 to $750. Those ones you see posted for $2000 and $5000 imo are just greedy people trying to hustle someone on a color morphed chameleon with no justification of price.
 

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Thanks everyone. Yeah I feel like with the cost of everything I’m not surprised prices are higher. Just trying to get an idea what’s fair and what’s outrageous. TBH animals should probably cost more anyway so we have less people buying some interesting little ‘object’ and more serious keepers.
 
Thanks everyone. Yeah I feel like with the cost of everything I’m not surprised prices are higher. Just trying to get an idea what’s fair and what’s outrageous. TBH animals should probably cost more anyway so we have less people buying some interesting little ‘object’ and more serious keepers.
FramsChams has amazing babies and I think they offer great prices especially since they have a built reputation. Also a site sponsor! AND they are going to be breeding Nosy Boraha! Which is literally my, oh my god I want it so bad locale.
 
Well I think age comes into play with pricing. The young ones usually go for less then say a full grown Cham which has required more upkeep and expense.
 
I acquired Enigma from Chameleons 101 one of the main Furcifer pardalis breeders here in the Central Valley area. Chameleons 101 has got a great reputation although the owner sells eggs to hatch, a practice I am not fond of. However he had pictures of all the Sir's and Dam's with his chameleons that were for sale.

Actualy the Top Dollar Ambanja Furcifer pardalis for sale at the Expo were not impressive. Their baring was minimal and lacked a lot to pay top dollar for a chameleon. I am of the opinion that when Furcifer pardalis are being sold that way for top dollar, I should hold onto my money and buy a Calumma parsonii ssp..

Enigma turned out great! I am glad I made the choice I made.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
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I acquired Enigma from Chameleons 101 one of the main Furcifer pardalis breeders here in the Central Valley area. Chameleons 101 has got a great reputation although the owner sells eggs to hatch, a practice I am not fond of. However he had pictures of all the Sir's and Dam's with his chameleons that were for sale.

Actualy the Top Dollar Ambanja Furcifer pardalis for sale at the Expo were not impressive. Their baring was minimal and lacked a lot to pay top dollar for a chameleon. I am of the opinion that when Furcifer pardalis are being sold that way for top dollar, I should hold onto my money and buy a Calumma parsonii ssp..

Enigma turned out great! I am glad I made the choice I made.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
The reason you are seeing “ambanja” blurples listed at that price top dollar everywhere is because people think a cross or colormorph panther is valued at more but the market doesn’t seem to agree. As far as I know we are the only breeder in the USA breeding Ambanja from wild stock and proving them out. The so called “ambanja” blue ambanja aka blurples on the market these days look nothing like what is found in the wilds of Madagascar so imo mistakes were made and people just kept going along with it. But with the up tick in people visiting and documenting Ambanja panther chameleons in Madagascar and still with consistent looks and patterns in the wild. the color morphs are loosing desirability because they are not a Ambanja they are a color morph panther chameleon and with unpredictable outcomes from the pairings not knowing if you are getting a blue panther chameleon or one that looks more like a different locale or a blend of different locales in one chameleon. Just my 2 cents on the Ambanja’s most people see on the market these days. They are drab and lack luster and poor reception of the beautiful locale it is. Here is a few Ambanja’s that are wc or proven F1’s we have produced. Probably a much better looking Ambanja then what you saw at the expo labled as so called Ambanja.
 

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The reason you are seeing “ambanja” blurples listed at that price top dollar everywhere is because people think a cross or colormorph panther is valued at more but the market doesn’t seem to agree. As far as I know we are the only breeder in the USA breeding Ambanja from wild stock and proving them out. The so called “ambanja” blue ambanja aka blurples on the market these days look nothing like what is found in the wilds of Madagascar so imo mistakes were made and people just kept going along with it. But with the up tick in people visiting and documenting Ambanja panther chameleons in Madagascar and still with consistent looks and patterns in the wild. the color morphs are loosing desirability because they are not a Ambanja they are a color morph panther chameleon and with unpredictable outcomes from the pairings not knowing if you are getting a blue panther chameleon or one that looks more like a different locale or a blend of different locales in one chameleon. Just my 2 cents on the Ambanja’s most people see on the market these days. They are drab and lack luster and poor reception of the beautiful locale it is. Here is a few Ambanja’s that are wc or proven F1’s we have produced. Probably a much better looking Ambanja then what you saw at the expo labled as so called Ambanja.
True Ambanjas are so much nicer than the Blurples anyway! Really nice animals you’ve got.

You and Ipardalis are the only ones I know breeding true ambanjas. They just recently introduced that project to the public to be doing along side their YBBB and RBBB projects.

Glad to see theirs a few people trying to hold true and speak facts, rather than “emotion” trying to convince that blurples are true ambanjas..
 
True Ambanjas are so much nicer than the Blurples anyway! Really nice animals you’ve got.

You and Ipardalis are the only ones I know breeding true ambanjas. They just recently introduced that project to the public to be doing along side their YBBB and RBBB projects.

Glad to see theirs a few people trying to hold true and speak facts, rather than “emotion” trying to convince that blurples are true ambanjas..
Ipardalis started his project recently because of some captive hatched babies turned out to be Ambanja. I have been talking to Jonathan for a few years now about ambanjas and after we all saw his captive hatch were showing traits of Ambanja I asked if he would be interested in any of my lines and he was very excited to get them and start to help with producing quality Ambanja locales. His new sire Bowie is from us from our Alamo ambanja line. I am glad to see him start the project. that helps when it has only been us for a long while. We (Ready’s rainforest)have been producing ambanjas for over decade.
 
From my understanding a lot of the blurples originally came from Bonsai an Ambanja from tree candy. Then they were just replicated/bred from there. I’ve seen the blue/purple chameleons in person and the ones I saw were stunning, in fact I had one from tree candy back in the day. That said, it would depend what they were bred with, at this point who knows what’s in the line and they seem to look different than the typical Ambanjas as mentioned. Mine was from like 2017 and I have pics of him legitimately purple and sharp deep blues.
 
As far as “better” it really just comes down to the buyer’s perspective. If they’re not breeding then it doesn’t matter much as long as they like the looks of the Cham.
 
I think if people want the Blue ambanja then they buy it because they love the true blues. But if people want Blurple then they buy blurple because that appeals to them most.

It comes down to what the buyer really wants not all the breeders. If breeders want to provide options of mixed locales then that is for them to decide and the buyers will in turn go where they want to get what stands out to them the most. In the end it is their money that they are spending on a chameleon that makes them happy.

I mean in reality most of the people that are buying a chameleon have no intention to breed it. They simply want what appeals to them the most.
 
They actually popped up here first. You can probably search close to the original founding animales on here that had questionable wc females from the beginning. As for tree candy we are friends with her and have had many discussions about them and how they are morphed or line bred outside of the natural look.
 
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I think if people want the Blue ambanja then they buy it because they love the true blues. But if people want Blurple then they buy blurple because that appeals to them most.

It comes down to what the buyer really wants not all the breeders. If breeders want to provide options of mixed locales then that is for them to decide and the buyers will in turn go where they want to get what stands out to them the most. In the end it is their money that they are spending on a chameleon that makes them happy.

I mean in reality most of the people that are buying a chameleon have no intention to breed it. They simply want what appeals to them the most.
This is true there is actually a locale naturally blue called a nosy be. if those breeders were being truthful and not misrepresenting the chameleons as a locale and just call them panther chameleons. But in most cases what I have seen is people getting really upset when they end up doing the research and look at wild examples of locales and realize they have been mislead and the chameleon they have looks nothing like the locale they were told it was and it turns out it’s a color morph/cross locale. Then breeders will throw out selective bred which makes no since because 80 million years of isolation and selective breeding in the wild has never produced a chameleon that looks like that chameleon they claim to be a locale or they will try the Appel to authority because they are upset there chameleon isn’t a wild form locale and even when the documentation is out there and proven. Here are some interesting articles you maybe interested in. https://www.chameleons.info/en/copy-of-furcifer-pardalis-klimt/
https://ipardalis.com/blog/2024/03/03/ambanja-panther-chameleons-for-sale/
https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-ambanja/
 
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This is true if those breeders were being truthful and not misrepresenting the chameleons as a locale and just call them panther chameleons. But in most cases what I have seen is people getting really upset when they end up doing the research and look at wild examples of locales and realize they have been mislead and the chameleon they have looks nothing like the locale the were told it was and it turns out it’s a color morph/cross locale. Then breeders will throw out selective bred which makes no since because 80 million years never produced a chameleon that looks like that chameleon they claim to be a locale or they will try the Appel to authority because they are upset there chameleon isn’t a wild form locale and even when the documentation is out there and proven. Here are some interesting articles you maybe interested in. https://www.chameleons.info/en/copy-of-furcifer-pardalis-klimt/
https://ipardalis.com/blog/2024/03/03/ambanja-panther-chameleons-for-sale/
https://www.madcham.de/en/lokalform-ambanja/
Yes, buyers should be educated on what is out there and most people look at the sire to decide if that is the baby they want. The original topic of this thread is "Panther prices". We are straying off the topic. As this is not a thread speaking to the specifics of an Ambanja. I appreciate your input that you have shared but if you would like to discuss morph, pure, cross, etc of Ambanja perhaps starting a thread about this, titled appropriately would be better. Then when people search for it they are able to actually find the information to make an informed decision.

Since you brought up the Blurple debate and I am aware that this could go very poorly as I am aware of the breeders that breed them. I have been watching this thread to ensure that none of the forum rules are being broken.
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I can’t tell you how many times I have been vending at expos and have people come up and say wow Ambanja’s. But mine doesn’t look like that and proceeds to show me a blurple or cross of some kind. I refer them to wild documentation of the locale and not one is happy about it after they see there chameleon doesn’t look like the ambanja’s found in Madagascar.
 
Got it. No problem at all. It just sort of formed into this topic as those extreme prices seem to mostly be attached to those animals so in a way related to the topic
 
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I honestly couldn’t care less if my chameleon was a mutant bred in the mountains of Kentucky, as long as it looks cool and is healthy.

I do get what you’re saying though if you’re buying a true Ambanja for the sake of it being an ambanja, then it’s a let down to find it’s otherwise. I think most of us are aware many Cham’s these days are line bred and the locales are sketchy. Real nosey be can even have lots of yellows for example.

As for blurples, I thought they were mostly from the bonsai line, which I guess maybe he’s from kammers? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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