Panther Sick from something

aqualungs

aqualungs

Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male 9 month Ambilobe/Nosybe. Owner 4-5 months
  • Handling - every few days to daily, but not lately unless its a shower or outside sun
  • Feeding - Phoenix worms, Banana Roaches, Superworms, hornworns, and silks when avail.. he eats varied bugs and up to 10 bugs daily 9am - 5 pm (free ranger or cup) Bugs eat dry gutloads and mixed veges and fruit kale, apples, carrots, oranges.
  • Supplements - repcal calcium daily. d3 2x a month and vitamins 2x a month
  • Watering - Mistking 7:15 am 4min, 10:30 3min, 1:30 3min, 4:30 3 min, and 6 for 3min.
  • Fecal Description - runny green liquid, urate with a little orange at the end. Just had a fecal done monday June 6th and negative.
  • History - Has had an eye closing issue before that went away after shed and some vitA w/palmitate dab on a cricket. Also had mouth opening issue that went away in March by increasing heat and more time in between mistings.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Dragonstrand 21.5″ W x 16″ D x 44.5″ H. Screened front and top
  • Lighting - 7am - 7pm. Zoomed 5.0 24: t5 and 100 watt incandescent on Herpstat1 thermostat
  • Temperature - 87 basking 82 Mid lower . lowest overnight temp 70-72. measured by Repstat 1 thermostat and checked with temp humidity probe.
  • Humidity - regular humidity changes from 40-50. 65-70 after misting
  • Plants - live Shefflera
  • Placement - Located in Home office. On a 3 foot stand, In between two vents on the floor that are Top of cage is 6.5 feet above floor.
  • Location - Northeast Ohio, daily temp and humidity fluctuations

Current Problem - Boba has had a little history of closing his left eye on and off for the last few months. It went away usually after a shed, until recently. He has always had an appetite through all of this until last friday he stopped eating June 1st and it looked like he was trying to puke? Prior I noticed him getting more dehydrated and his appetite slowly going down. I figured he was approaching adulthood due to the man boogers he's been leaving. I ordered him some Hornworms and things went well until 4 days later. He stopped eating and I also found a black mold in the hornworm cup as they ate into the middle of the food. I contacted Wormdepot and they said it wouldn't harm him??!! The day after I saw him gasping and he blew a bubble out of his mouth.
That monday I took him to the vet, and they think the hormworms got him sick as mold is "toxic". He is very strong, still active, and is drinking like crazy. His fecal tested negative and the vet stated it wasn't an RI because his mouth was clear. He thinks it is Gastro and didn't want to give him antibiotics because he seemed healthy otherwise. He was colored up when the vet looked at him. He also said his eyes look good and shed was probably getting into them.

Boba has still not eaten, is still drinking a lot. His stool this morning, half was orange with green slime. After he drinks alot he opens his mouth and makes this noise and he is still doing a puking thing where he stands up straight in the air and wriggles. Hes not blowing bubbles and and there is a little saliva by his hinges. His grip is still very strong but he is very skinny. He colors up still except when hes basking.

I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to make him more comfortable.
 
Yesterday before he puked saliva. I about had a heart attack
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I had some silks up there, but he never went in it or hid. So I eventually took them down for ease of cleaning. Should I put them back up for him?
 
you could try hanging a live plant from the top..? I would suggest some cover up there though. I'm sure he would like to spend most of his time up there and he would like to feel that he is hiding...

Just my opinion. I have not owned a panther...
 
I may do that when my wife takes him out today for some uv. Poor guy. He's not shy at all and he always comes up to you. Like I said before he never went in them, but he might benefit since hes not feeling good. Will probably make him feel safer and less stressed. Thanks. I'm thankful at least he's drinking and moving around. He's not showing any signs of decline other than not eating......... :( Vet is supposed to call back and check up on him today.
 
I also have been shaving fresh carrots into water,straining it, and misting spots by him. Since yesterday I've never seen him drink so much.
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I hope he gets to feeling better,. He looks in need of water. Try to up his outside time of you can they love it so much. Our atleast mine does. Good luck
 
I agree. I can't believe he is still dehydrated after all he has been drinking. It has been in the 60s to low 70s. It's 80 today, so he will be getting outside time for sure!
 
Do you have soil or rocks or bark in his cage? I've seen the vomiting and irritated GI with impaction issues. Did they take an xray to determine if there was something stuck along the way? I've seen strange "wiggle" behaviours in geckos, dragons and skinks when they were impacted. It's extremely painful, as one can imagine, especially after eating or drinking. Did you vet investigate this at all?

He definitely looks pretty darn dehydrated. Have you showered him? That can get a lot of water into cham pretty quickly. More water, more water, more water! If he is fighting something or in distress his need for water is going to go through the roof. The body cannot heal if it is not properly hydrated.

He does look thin to me, too, as you said. Is he eating anything right now? Hornworms, silkworms and waxworms are probably the safest food choices right now. Avoid anything that could be irritating the GI, like Phoenix worms and Butterworms. I'm not knocking these as feeders- I use them myself- but I've noticed some reptiles after a big butterworm meal may have a bit of an upset stomach, and unless your cham is very diligent about chewing the Phoenix worms- which most aren't- it's very hard for them to get through their tough exoskeleton. This isn't a problem for most healthy chams, but if you cham does have something GI-related going on you don't want to make him work for his nutrition. Horns, silks and waxworms are all pretty easily digested and pack a nutritional punch for thin and dehydrated chams.

Did your vet recommend any kind of probiotic? This isn't going to help if it is an impaction, but it may help if it's inflammation or irritation.

And, honestly... I wouldn't rule out an RI issue either even though your vet dismissed the idea. The wiggling, head-up posture, bubbles, dehydration, as well as the previous eye issue and open mouthed breathing way well all harken back to a slowly brewing RI problem that never got fully addressed. The vit A supplementation may have helped, the increased heat may have helped... but eventually the problem overwhelms the cham's ability to fight it. Increased mucous and bubbles are indicative of RI distress, but they don't always have to be present. Just keep an eye on his breathing. Another thought- if it is an RI, an increase in humidity can make it easier for them to breathe and clear their airways. A shower may very well help not only get him hydrated again, but help his breathing isfhe is having trouble. Just in case!
 
Hi MissLissa,
The vet did not do an xray. I have larger stones in the plant so I don't think it was that. We saw him on tuesday. Boba seemed to started getting better, and Saturday and Sunday he was drinking tons of water, but still very dehydrated. More than I've ever seen. Sunday I thought hew was gonna eat as I introduced Banana roach nymphs. He went over to check them out but walked by. I notice then later he wasn't drinking at all and getting lethargic. I also notice mucous in his mouth. I have had a sneaking suspicion of an RI like you said, but the symptoms kept going away. We also couldn't decide it it was toxicity from the mold eating hornworms? Monday he turned super pale, still not eating and now not drinking, I rushed him to a different exotic vet because the other couldn't see him until 4:30pm. He was super weak. The vet decided to give him antibiotic ceftazidime and a dewormer panacur. She sent me home with carnivore care and doses of antibiotics for the next 14 days. I took Boba out of the box with the blanket he was laying on. He couldnt get up. it was almost 3 pm and I knew he had to eat or drink so I gave him the liquid diet with a syringe little by little like instructed. Waited for him to to stop chomping and put him in his cage on a branch. His back legs started to slip off the back branch and his tail went limp. I went to grab him and held him. there was mucous in his mouth and he started to gasp. His tongue game out as his eyes started to close. I grabbed a qtip and tried to clear any mucous in his mouth. There was a small bit of blood in the mucous. He gave a few small breaths and got up. It didn't work and he passed away in my hands. I held him for a while crying and hoping he would come back, even though I'm a 38 year old man..

I got so upset yesterday giving myself a migraine wondering if I should have acted quicker or something I did wrong etc. My wife and I are devastated. he meant so much to us and was so special and sweet. I cleaned out his cage but haven't taken everything down yet. He was a part of our family.

Anyways thank you so much for the help
 
I am so sorry! I just lost my own last week after a few months battle from an eye infection. You can drive yourself crazy with the "what if's". They are a part of the family, we grow so attached and work so hard, it is devastating to lose them.
 
I am so, so sorry for your loss aqualungs. It's such a hard thing to look back and agonize over whether you did the right thing or not. In my view, you did right: you took your cham to your vet and heeded their advice. Unfortunately, chameleons don't always show the most common symptoms which can make diagnosis difficult even if the vet is familiar with other reptile species.

If I were you, I would contact the previous vet and let them know what happened. I do think that they should have investigated pneumonia as a possibility more thoroughly, but they may not have known enough about chams to understand that need. I would hope that calmly letting them know of the other vet's diagnosis, and that your chameleon has passed, may encourage them to be more thorough in the future. It doesn't help your poor cham now, but it may help all the chams they see in the future. A small, cold comfort, I know. :(

I really wish this had turned out better for you and your dear cham. Take care, and try not to be too hard on yourself. We can only do as we see best at the time.
 
I'm sorry for your loss...
It's the tough part about keeping reptiles... They don't like to show their weakness and when they do it's often to late...
Also the veterinary care for our beloved reptiles just isn't as evolved as it is for your average pet.
 
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