Parasite gone - still not eating

[taz_s_824]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Male, 1 yr old. Had him for 11 months.
• Handling - Handle when force feeding and giving him calcium (provided by vet) once a day and when I take him into natural sunlight 4-5 times a week. Otherwise, he does not like handling.
• Feeding - Gut loaded crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms and hornworms. 5 crickets every other day and anything else he will take in between. Feeding is done every morning and I leave feeders in his cage (in a cup) if he is hungry later in the day.
• Supplements - Vet told me not to dust his food while giving him oral calcium. He is low on calcium which is why he is still being fed this. Otherwise, I use Reptical with or without D3.
• Watering - He has a large dripper that drips all day. I have a mister that goes off every 2 hours (5x a day) for 15-20 minute sessions. He used to eat the leaves for hydration but he stopped a month ago and that's how he started developing sperm plugs. When I take him outside I hand mist him for 15 minutes about once every hour to once every couple of hours depending on how hot it is outside. When mister goes off, he sits under it but I have not seen him drink.
• Fecal Description - I've just stopped giving him vet provided food that's mixed with water so he has been hydrating through it. I have to check his urates today to see if he's drank any water today. He has been treated with Penacur for parasite the past month and free of parasites now. Need him to get him to start eating and drinking again.
• History - When I first got him at 3-4 months (according to breeder) he looked very small for a chameleon that age. (I am comparing based on the first chameleon I had purchased before him.) His personality has always been defensive and he's never liked being handled. I rarely touched him and he managed to eat/drink on his own. I occassionally started letting him outside for natural sunlight but maybe 1-2 a week until vet told me he's low on calcium and needs to be taken out everyday. Handling has gone up drastically because of this and due to his force feeding. Based on his behavior since increased handling, he's been hissing less, doesn't get defensive as much and overall his level of defense has decreased a lot. He holds a whole different personality when I take him outside and put him on his tree. He hates being taken off. He will hiss and bloat, but never tries to bite. He basically tries to tell me he does NOT want off! I have to loosen each foot at a time and push him gently from behind to get onto my hand. I've never seen him lick leaves for water or from the dripper. He will eat his ficus and pothos leaves like crazy until his parasites.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Reptibreeze 24x24x48, mesh
• Lighting -
  Before parasites: Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp - daytime heat lamp 100 watt & Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 UVB (13 watts)
• Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp with 2 ceramic heat lamps
  
  After parasites: Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp - daytime heat lamp 100 watt & Zilla Reptile Slimline Reptile Lighting Fixture with UVB Lamp, 18 inches, 15 Watt
• Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp with 2 ceramic heat lamps
  
  
• Light schedule is from 6am-6:30pm
  
  
• Temperature - Winter 85-65 (while using ceramic heat lamps); Summer - high: 100-90; low: 85-75 Temps measure by Imagitarium Climate Catcher (from PetCo).
• Humidity - Winter: don't know right now because I got the mister after the last winter ended so I think it will make a world of a difference. Currently his humidity ranges from 80-100. I also am covering his cage with clear shower curtains to maintain humidity. I have a very large pothos. I am adding an umbrella tree and another schefflera tree. Only live plants. Using Imagitarium Climate Catcher (from PetCo) to measure humidity.
• Plants - See above
• Placement - His cage is in the attic where no one goes and no traffic. No other pets in the house. Only contact he has is me. It's the warmest part of the house. It's in front of two windows so during the summer I leave them open. Especially when he feels like roaming about. During the winter, I keep them closed with heavy curtains and if it's too cold I'll put a blanket over his cage.
• Location - New York City

Current Problem - Since he had a parasite issue, he had stopped eating on his own. I have to still force feed him insects, liquidized food and oral calcium. I'd like to try to get him back into eating on his own again. I found out he is clear of parasites 2 days ago. It may be early but he hasn't eaten on his own for a month now. Are there any tips on how to get him to take interest again?

The vet and I both noticed he will eyeball the insects, but does not go for them. His tongue works fine. I know because he tried to tongue hit me when I would pretend to give him kisses.

I know it's not helpful to stress out a chameleon during an illness and probably not after but I only handle when necessary. Please help!

 

[taz_s_824]

Some background info regarding his parasites, he had pinworms/coccidia. After a week of not eating and having sperm plugs, the vet found that his calcium level is low and he's very dehydrated. The vet gave some panacur and liquid diet that I had been giving him for a month. She also noticed his shed for that month was still on him. I told her I do not give him a bath because he moves around a LOT, hates water and does not like being handled. We decided on doing misting sessions and try leaving wet or misted collard greens in his cage. It didn't work at the time but I will keep trying this unless there is anything else I should try.

 

[ChamLB]

Whats the longest he's been without the liquid diet? Is it possible he hasn't gotten hungry enough to eat yet?

 

[taz_s_824]

Whats the longest he's been without the liquid diet? Is it possible he hasn't gotten hungry enough to eat yet?

It's only been 2 days since the liquid diet. I have been force feeding him insects. He spit back out a couple of crickets but he took most of it. I suppose I can try not feeding him tomorrow to see if he gets hungry enough to eat on his own. He has been on meds for the first time in a very long time. I just wasn't sure about the transition.

 

[ChamLB]

I wouldn't go very long without force feeding but he may not try to eat until he's hungry enough.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..." vet told me he's low on calcium and needs to be taken out everyday" ...putting him outside allows him to produce D3 which will allow him to use the calcium in his system/diet...however, he still needs enough calcium to go with the D3 he produces.

You said..." Handling has gone up drastically because of this and due to his force feeding"...I think force feeding should be a last resort. Have you tried dripping water at the rate of one or two drips a second on the end of his nose and once he starts drinking (it takes a while to get them started to drink...so be persistant) slipping a cricket head first between his teeth? This is less stressful IMHO than force-feeding. Also...if he has MBD his digestion might be slower because low calcium also affects the muscles... so he won't eat so much.

You said..."He will eat his ficus and pothos leaves like crazy until his parasites"...interesting. I wonder if he was trying to treat the parasites himself?

Some meds make them not feel like eating too.

 

[taz_s_824]

You said..." vet told me he's low on calcium and needs to be taken out everyday" ...putting him outside allows him to produce D3 which will allow him to use the calcium in his system/diet...however, he still needs enough calcium to go with the D3 he produces.

You said..." Handling has gone up drastically because of this and due to his force feeding"...I think force feeding should be a last resort. Have you tried dripping water at the rate of one or two drips a second on the end of his nose and once he starts drinking (it takes a while to get them started to drink...so be persistant) slipping a cricket head first between his teeth? This is less stressful IMHO than force-feeding. Also...if he has MBD his digestion might be slower because low calcium also affects the muscles... so he won't eat so much.

You said..."He will eat his ficus and pothos leaves like crazy until his parasites"...interesting. I wonder if he was trying to treat the parasites himself?

Some meds make them not feel like eating too.

Your suggestions are very helpful. I have been dusting his food with Reptical without D3 as well as taking him out in natural sunlight as often as possible. I use Reptical with D3 once every 2 weeks.

In regards to giving him water, no I have not tried the method you suggested and I will do so moving forward. I also checked his urates day before yesterday and it's very white so I am assuming he is drinking water on his own again but will continue to monitor and try what you suggested if things change.

He was not diagnosed with MBD. His x-ray showed that his front two feet are lacking calcium. The vet said it will take a while for his bones to build back up.

Also, he's had some leftover shed from over a month ago. Vet thought he may have a skin disease if that shed doesn't go away and will do testing. I tried giving him a 10 min bath 3 times yesterday and it turns out his mouth area turned white. It looks like shed because the skin seems to be coming off.

 

[jannb]

What kind of parasites did he have? It important to repeat the fecal because if the fecal is done when they are not shedding eggs it want show any parasites.

 

[taz_s_824]

What kind of parasites did he have? It important to repeat the fecal because if the fecal is done when they are not shedding eggs it want show any parasites.

He had pinworms/coccidia. His fecal from last week showed he no longer has these parasites.

 

[jannb]

He had pinworms/coccidia. His fecal from last week showed he no longer has these parasites.

Sometime they will have a clean fecal one week and the next week show parasites. Cociddia is really hard to get rid of. How did you clean for the Cociddia? What meds did you use for the cociddia?

 

[taz_s_824]

Sometime they will have a clean fecal one week and the next week show parasites. Cociddia is really hard to get rid of. How did you clean for the Cociddia? What meds did you use for the cociddia?

My vet prescribed penacur, oral calcium intake and liquid feeding. It took over a month for him to be clear of it.

 

[jannb]

Panacur nor calcium works for cociddia.

 

[taz_s_824]

Panacur nor calcium works for cociddia.

What does so that I can ask my vet?

 

[jannb]

Ponazuril

Don't let your vet give you Albon. It makes the chameleons stop eating and often very sick. Some vets don't know about Ponazuril. Is you vet experienced with chameleons? You also have to do a very through cleaning for cociddia. I'll get you some info on cleaning and link it below. You may have to print this out and take it to your vet.

Ponazuril:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleons-and-coccidia-ponazuril-offers-new-hope.16409/

Cleaning:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/coccidia-cleaning-need-advice-tips-please.42444/

 

[taz_s_824]

Ponazuril

Don't let your vet give you Albon. It makes the chameleons stop eating and often very sick. Some vets don't know about Ponazuril. Is you vet experienced with chameleons? You also have to do a very through cleaning for cociddia. I'll get you some info on cleaning and link it below.

I did clean out his whole cage with bleach, scrubbed down his branches and threw out his old plants. I have to put his new plants and rearrnage his cage in a couple of days so I might clean everything again so any info would be helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."He was not diagnosed with MBD. His x-ray showed that his front two feet are lacking calcium. The vet said it will take a while for his bones to build back up. "

With MBD the primary problem is a disruption of calcium metabolism.... it's a lack of calcium as the result of an imbalance in calcium, phosphorous and D3. For your chameleon to rebuild the bone and correct the lack of calcium and prevent it from happening again it needs a proper balance of those things...so giving it calcium without making sure it doesn't have too much phosphorous or the right amount of D3 won't correct the problem...and not keeping the balance after the bone is strong again will allow it to happen again. Call it what you want...but that balance still is what's important. Also temperature plays a part in it too because if the chameleon is too cool it can't digest the food properly and won't absorb the nutrients it needs.

 

[taz_s_824]

You said..."He was not diagnosed with MBD. His x-ray showed that his front two feet are lacking calcium. The vet said it will take a while for his bones to build back up. "

With MBD the primary problem is a disruption of calcium metabolism.... it's a lack of calcium as the result of an imbalance in calcium, phosphorous and D3. For your chameleon to rebuild the bone and correct the lack of calcium and prevent it from happening again it needs a proper balance of those things...so giving it calcium without making sure it doesn't have too much phosphorous or the right amount of D3 won't correct the problem...and not keeping the balance after the bone is strong again will allow it to happen again. Call it what you want...but that balance still is what's important. Also temperature plays a part in it too because if the chameleon is too cool it can't digest the food properly and won't absorb the nutrients it needs.

I see. How do I measure if he's getting the appropriate balance of nutrition?

 

[kinyonga]

There is no definite formula for chameleons so we recommend you dust the insects with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at almost every feeding to make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects. We dust twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB and twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene prOformed source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A will not build up in the system so it's safe but it leaves it up to you to decide if/when your chameleon needs a little prEformed vitamin A. D3 from supplements builds up in the system and can lead to health issues but D3 produced from exposure to the UVB won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it at will. D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and an improper balance of them can lead to health issues too.

It's important to feed/gutload the insects well. For crickets, roaches, superworms, locusts you can use a wide assortment of greens and veggies and a little bit of fruit. I use dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, berries, melon, apples, pears, etc.

Temperature is important as I mentioned and proper UVB is also imoortant for health.

 

[taz_s_824]

In regards to dusting, do you have any brands you'd recommend?

 

[taz_s_824]

He ate two hornworms on his own today. Woo hoo!