Pascal-9 weeks old(3-4 inches) refusing to eat or drink

Another Veiled, I'd love a panther eventually but I know they aren't chameleons for newbies lol

Panthers are quite hardy and easy to care for, and yes, I consider them a good chameleon choice for a novice.

In my opinion at this time in the US, I think raising a healthy veiled is not something most novices can do. Most veileds hatch from females that are poorly nourished so are not able to put enough nutrients into the egg. These nutritional deficits have long-lasting effects on the long-term health of the animal and future generations. There are a few people who can do a good job producing healthy babies, but these breeders are few and far between and do not produce very many babies. The fact of the matter is that veileds wholesale for $8. You cannot raise healthy babies for $8 apiece. I was told by a big dealer that veiled breeders cull their females after one clutch because they are spent. There is a reason there is so much MBD in very young baby veileds. I would not want to produce babies from a veiled that came from somewhere that sold it for $8 even if I raised that baby from hatch. Too much nutrition goes into that baby before it hatches.

I also consider the montane species I work with--Trioceros quadricornis quadricornis and Trioceros quadricornis gracilior--to be very good species for novices. I've found them to be very hardy, even the battered wild caughts I have bought, as long as you give them some basic requirements which is lots of humidity and reasonably low temperatures. I find them easier to deal with than a veiled because I don't worry about basking lights and getting temps high enough in winter.

It is quite easy to give them what they need, even for a novice. I keep mine very differently than @bobcochran and we are both successful getting wild caught pairs to reproduce. His temperature parameters are much, much different than mine. So, to a degree, they are very flexible, I've found novices do well with them as long as they listen to me and are observant and honest.

Honesty is incredibly important. No keeper wants to be criticized about their husbandry but if a keeper defends poor husbandry practices, or worse lies about how they keep them, then they will never be able to learn because they are stuck with a closed mind. You have no idea how many times I have looked at pictures of cages and their placement and read the descriptions of how much misting the keeper does to know they are out and out lying. You cannot mist a screen cage that sits on top of a carpet or a wood table or a TV console for minutes at a time every few hours and not have a flood and damage. I doubt many people give even a minute of hand misting at a time because, well, it is difficult to do and misters wear out pretty quickly. I think most people simply write what they think we want to hear so they won't be criticized.

Also, remember keeping a veiled alive is not the same as them thriving.
 
Exactly this^ panthers, given that they are usually bred much healthier than veileds, are a great newbie option. It just depends how committed you are. Panthers are one of the more expensive species, so you don't see many people with them blowing off their care and buying on a whim. Most cb chameleons are hardy given proper conditions. I think people just get nervous spending that much on an unfamiliar animal(with shipping panthers Can be around $400), but if you research and save, they are definitely a great starter cham!

I'm believer that most* animals can be a beginner animal if you understand their specific needs. Many people just like to go oh chameleon: plastic plant, heat bulb, screen cage, done.... then it dies and they claim the animal is complicated. On the other hand, Someone that has room and does research could even start with a cb Parsons.

So anyway, point is, pick out a cham you'd love to have, learn about it and see if you can provide. If so, go with it.

(Sorry for the rant, woke up with a lot of energy today lol)
 
Off topic: On the hand misting thing, you guys might think I'm crazy, but for months when I started, i did online classes and my computer was in the cham room. Id inidividually mist my my two chams 5-10 minutes each, few times a day, in between doing awful amounts of math. Little Wal-Mart mister somehow still going strong, but the industrial one broke..:confused:
 
That really gives me a lot to think about but I appreciate it! I actually put a towel under the cage and misted about a min every few hrs. Though my husband shook his head at me bc we have Sheetrock behind the cage lol oops! But I will probably look into panthers now. Sad to say bc I loved pascal, but what you say makes sense. I will have to wait a bit to spend that much on a panther, the cage itself with all we bought makes it easier, spending that already so it's not as big a hit as buying it altogether. I've already taken and cleaned the cage out, it's been airing for a while. I also did stop by that reptile shop. Found this mister which you pump up and it sprays a continual mist for a good minute when you pressed the button it has down. I watched her do it to several cages. I almost drooled lol. So I'm honestly not a patient person but this is worth the wait. Thank you for the condolences and the advice. It's awesome to have people to turn to about this and not feel stupid for asking questions.
 
Catlea can i ask you what kind of uvb light were you using ? And i'm sorry for your lose and bad experience, But can i give you a little advice... on your next purchase take your time when you are in the market . make sure to look at all your options and this rule also applies in this hobby when using the saying "you get what you paid for"... i'm not saying there are no deals out there but knowing how much work must be done when raising babies regardless if they are egg or live birth is time consuming so i gotta wonder sometimes about low prices ppl are willing to sell there animals. I personally learned my lesson from mistakes like buying babies ... i think a good age to buy is one at the 6 month area, also make sure they are eating well and if you are able to see it in person look around see how clean the living areas are if they have all the things they would need. i can go on and on about stuff i'd look for but you get the idea . but my last advice for now is look at a few so you have something to compare and if you missed a good buy don't even trip over it the right one is out there if you are patient. and if you you might need a second opinion i'd be happy to help you decide on a good choice. Right now i am keeping panthers and mt. meru jacksons both have there pros and cons but agree with jajeanpierre, panthers are actually a good choice for novice .https://www.chameleonforums.com/members/jajeanpierre.36520/
 
We were using the uvb bulb that came with the chameleon zoo med wire mesh cage. So not the one that is said to be much better for the chameleon. A 10.0 compact fluorescent uvb? I had to go look it up, but not planning on using that one again. Planning on going with the longer uvb I've read about on here. Thank you for the advice! I will keep an eye and take my time for sure! Price is fine as long as the baby is healthy. Buying the cage and having the rest just made it easier to be able to pay the price needed for a good chameleon.
 
I just wanted to comment real quick and say I am so sorry for your loss. I am in a relatively same situation as you, and have had 0/2 luck with my baby veileds.
I have a 40+ page long thread of my own documenting everything I have done to prepare, vet visits, etc, only to have them pass away, and I can guarantee the issue for both is receiving them in a sickly condition. My second came from a pet chain store, Pet Supplies Plus, arrived dehydrated and with eye issues, but I still took her home and gave it my all. No parasites, but had a URI, and she passed away yesterday morning before I got up for work regardless of being medicated.

It's difficult to deal with, as a new keeper especially, to not look back and think you are to blame. In my case I've had two failed chameleons and I truly was under the impression I had to be doing something wrong, but fortunately I had very experienced keepers following my page and confirmed husbandry is correct, they were just ill and rehabilitation is very difficult in a sick baby, especially for a new keeper.

What I can recommend is use this forum to your advantage, and as tempting as it may be do to another chain store chameleon, don't. It's not worth the heartache and vet bills to try and rehabilitate an already sick one.
 
@Catlea17 You can buy a lovely, healthy well started panther for a lot less than $400 plus shipping. @Matt Vanilla Gorilla what do you sell your babies for? Shipping will be in the $50 to $60 range. Invest in an automatic mister that won't break when the reservoir runs dry. MistKing is a terrific product. I think every chameleon needs a mister, even the cheap PetSmart veiled.
 
@Catlea17 You can buy a lovely, healthy well started panther for a lot less than $400 plus shipping. @Matt Vanilla Gorilla what do you sell your babies for? Shipping will be in the $50 to $60 range. Invest in an automatic mister that won't break when the reservoir runs dry. MistKing is a terrific product. I think every chameleon needs a mister, even the cheap PetSmart veiled.
Hi @Catlea17 im very sorry for your loss . This is a horrid first time experience. I'm not going to add anything you have wonderful experienced keepers here helping you .

What I do want to add is if you plan on purchasing a panther @Matt Vanilla Gorilla is Amazing and so is his babies . We have one of his nosy be's Septiceye is his name . Septiceye will be a year next month . Septiceye is a pleasure , he's friendly has a wonderful disposition . Matt is amazing and if you need him for any reason he's always there before and well after purchase . You could not make a better Choice then going with Matt :).

I would be more then happy to post some pics of Septiceye if you would like to see . Or shoot Matt a PM .
 
You don't have to pay $400, but most are close to that range, at least 300 with shipping, there's exceptions though.. all panthers are beautiful, but any standouts will cost a little more. I have yet to see another cham with actual purple like tree candy's, id happily pay 100 more for a color that I want, but it depends on the individual. My gf and I got into Chams thinking how cool a purple one would be(only to be disappointed that they mostly didn't exist). After a year or so I lucked out. They are totally right though, you can get a beautiful ambilobe or nosey be for around 200 from some people. I'd rather buy a hold back because I'm picky though. To each their own!
 
@Catlea17 You can buy a lovely, healthy well started panther for a lot less than $400 plus shipping. @Matt Vanilla Gorilla what do you sell your babies for? Shipping will be in the $50 to $60 range. Invest in an automatic mister that won't break when the reservoir runs dry. MistKing is a terrific product. I think every chameleon needs a mister, even the cheap PetSmart veiled.

I sell my babies for $275 each plus shipping. Thanks for asking!
 
Catlea i'm not 100% sure about this but i believe i read somewhere maybe even from this forum that veiled chameleons are thought by many to be a more desert type species because of the country they originally come from so they would think the 10.0 uvb bulb compared to the 5.0 type is the correct choice but in fact veiled chameleons are not a desert type species but more of a rainforest habitat since they are only found in a region of that country that has that type of ecosystem .But like i said i'm not sure if that's true maybe someone who is experienced in them more could clarify this . As for me i use T5 bulb type for uvb but when ever i can would allow them to bask in natural sun light as much as i can even if just 15 mins a day would be good for them but just a warning specially in very hot days never leave them unattended even for a few minutes extreme heat can kill any lizard if exposed to it and always offer them an area that's shaded in the cage indoors or outdoors.
 
You're right, veileds are from a part of the Arabian peninsula that is humid and wet, along the coast. It is a misconception that they are desert animals.
 
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