Please Help, Fischer's Chameleon Enlosure/Diet Questions!

stevenelvin

stevenelvin

New Member
Hello everyone. I'm brand new on these forums and generally new to the world of reptiles. I have recently purchased an Exo-Terra rainforest kit terarium and put a down payment on a sub-adult Fischer's Chameleon. As of right now I am getting his enclosure set up nicely (before i get him) in an attempt to reduce the stress put on the animal during the accimilation process.

Here is some general info about the enclosure. Please make any suggestions or comments about things I could change in order to give him a higher quality life.

-Basking space Temp: 80F
-Ambient Temp: 73F
-Night Temp: 69F
-The enclosure contains numerous fake plants and things to climb on
-No drip system (This is my main concern. The person whom I bought him from said the usually get their moisture from water droplettes on leaves. I know most WC chameleons are usually dehydrated, and since I can't tell if mine is WC or not so I would like to know if misting would be sufficient).
-Coconut fiber substrate ( I think that's what it's called)

Additional questions:
How often and what should he be fed?
How much should I expect him to eat?
What would you suggest as a UVB source?
Any calcium/multivitamin suggestions?

Please note: He is male and 1-1.5 years old MAX. He looks alert and healthy (as far as I can see) and is a very bright green colour.

Thanks in Advance!

Steve:D
 
stevenelvin said:
Hello everyone. I'm brand new on these forums and generally new to the world of reptiles. I have recently purchased an Exo-Terra rainforest kit terarium and put a down payment on a sub-adult Fischer's Chameleon. As of right now I am getting his enclosure set up nicely (before i get him) in an attempt to reduce the stress put on the animal during the accimilation process.

Here is some general info about the enclosure. Please make any suggestions or comments about things I could change in order to give him a higher quality life.

-Basking space Temp: 80F
-Ambient Temp: 73F
-Night Temp: 69F
-The enclosure contains numerous fake plants and things to climb on
-No drip system (This is my main concern. The person whom I bought him from said the usually get their moisture from water droplettes on leaves. I know most WC chameleons are usually dehydrated, and since I can't tell if mine is WC or not so I would like to know if misting would be sufficient).
-Coconut fiber substrate ( I think that's what it's called)

Additional questions:
How often and what should he be fed?
How much should I expect him to eat?
What would you suggest as a UVB source?
Any calcium/multivitamin suggestions?

Please note: He is male and 1-1.5 years old MAX. He looks alert and healthy (as far as I can see) and is a very bright green colour.

Thanks in Advance!

Steve:D
Click to expand...


Okay so a few things, I would drop the night temps lower to at least the low 60's if possible they like a decent night drop. With the Exo-terra kit, I am assuming thats a glass terrarium? One thing to keep in mind is that the Fischer's Chameleon is what is called a montane chameleon which means they come from the cool, wet, montane areas in africa. And glass is always IMO harder to keep cool especially when a heat source is added such as a basking bulb. I would also suggest dropping the substrate as I only see it causing problems such as mold, bacteria, and can cause problems if the chameleon ingests it during food consumption, and I would add some live plants to the setup they will help with humidity and make him feel more at home. I would feed him everyday to every other day depending on his hunger, some montanes do not eat very much and some do, just keep an eye on what he is eating and go from there. UVB I would go with a 5.0 linear bulb. I would keep supplements to a minimum as montanes are very sensitive it, I would just settle on a good gutload for your feeders such as "Cricket Crack" for tiki tiki reptiles and lots of fresh fruits and veggies for the feeders. Also he is most likely Wild Caught because most kinyongia sold in the states is imported from africa. So a fecal would be in order for parasites. In the long run I would also switch to a nice size screen cage as there is more ventilation and easier to keep cool while having a basking spot.

Sorry for the blast of info. Hope it helps.
 
From everything Ive read about Fishers they love a heavily planted enclosure with lots of foliage to hide in. I'd take the exo terra back or use it for a different cham or reptile. Nicholas said it all, they need a good drop in night time temps and good ventilation being that they are montane species. Its going to be a fairly difficult job for a new comer to acclimate a montane species. I wouldnt add to that difficulty by using a glass enclosure. It can be done, but your parameters for success and failure are a very slim. Much easier to keep things like temp, humidity, and airflow balanced in a screen cage for a new owner. ;)
 
I have kept quite a few fischer's multis and some vosseleri. I've kept them in glass cages with screen lids and they do well.

They generally don't eat as much as a veiled or panther. I dust the insects with a phos.-free calcium powder at most feedings lightly. I dust twice a month lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder and twice a month lightly with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A.

I provide water by misting the cage at least once a day and by using a dripper. As long as they are well-watered, the humidity does not need to be really high.

Your temperatures sound fine.

I use no substrate.

I use a Repti-sun 5.0 long linear tube light on their cages.
 
Your also an exp keeper and you live in Canada. He's a newb and we have no clue where he resides.

He states he's new to reptiles. Its easier for a newb to work with a screen cage than balance the requirements needed for a cham in a glass enclosure.
 
Wow, the speediness of your replies amazes me. Thanks for all the help so far. I will get the 5.0 linear uvb bulb and lose the substrate. I will also lower my night time temp 2 or 3 degrees F and pick up a dripper to ensure he is properly hydrated aswell as going easy on the supplements.

And @ Texas Panther Man, I am also in Canada (southern ontario specifically) if that makes any difference.
 
Kinyongia, What do you keep your night and day temps at? And also I was not stating that I disagree with Glass enclosures, I just think when a beginner you should start off with an enclosure that isnt going to cause you to have to overcome any more hurdles than you already have to.

Also Stevenelvin it does make a difference where you live, and you live in a place that your not going to have to deal with overcoming any serious heat problems like you would if you say lived in Texas.
 
Actually, it does. That solid sided cage is much easier to work with up north than in a southern state in the US. It will help you contain humidity & temps during your dry, cold winters. Down here wwe can use screen yr round with little humidity loss during the winter months. ;)
 
@ nicholas & texas: That information is much appreciated. I will remember that.

Also I am not completely new to reptiles. I have kept geckos and beardies. Now, I know keeping a Chameleon will be much more of a challenge then a gecko/beardie but I beleive I am up to it. I have a couple books with information on this species but I knew I would get better, more specific info from people who actually have experience with them.

Thank you all so much!
 
Your welcome and good luck with the new addition. I wasnt trying to say you couldnt properly care for the cham. i just wanted to help make it as easy as possible for a newcomer to be successfull and enjoy the hobby. It can be alot for a reptile newbie to take in all at once.
 
stevenelvin said:
Hello everyone. I'm brand new on these forums and generally new to the world of reptiles. I have recently purchased an Exo-Terra rainforest kit terarium and put a down payment on a sub-adult Fischer's Chameleon. As of right now I am getting his enclosure set up nicely (before i get him) in an attempt to reduce the stress put on the animal during the accimilation process.


How big is the exoterra?

Here is some general info about the enclosure. Please make any suggestions or comments about things I could change in order to give him a higher quality life.

-Basking space Temp: 80F

Between 80 and 85 is good.

-Ambient Temp: 73F

This is also a good temp for ambient.

-Night Temp: 69F

As Nicholas said, night time temps should drop into the lower 60s or lower. Daytime humidity should be between 50 and 70% getting higher at night time.

-The enclosure contains numerous fake plants and things to climb on
-No drip system (This is my main concern. The person whom I bought him from said the usually get their moisture from water droplettes on leaves. I know most WC chameleons are usually dehydrated, and since I can't tell if mine is WC or not so I would like to know if misting would be sufficient).
-Coconut fiber substrate ( I think that's what it's called)

Live plants will help hold the humidity up along with looking nicer. They also hold the water droplets better giving a chameleon longer opportunity to drink. you can create a dripper out lots of things. Poke a hole in the bottom of a plastic cup, milk jug etc. Fill with water and put over top of the enclosure. Ditch the substrate also. As much water that will need to go into the enclosure will surely make it a mess.

Additional questions:
How often and what should he be fed?

THis depends what shape he comes to you in. If he is emaciated then I would feed as much as he will eat until he gets a good weight on. After that you can feed him 6 appropriate sized insects or equivalent to every other day or even skipping 3 days here and there. This has been suficient with my montanes including multituberculata (Fischers).

How much should I expect him to eat?

Anything that moves LOL!! I found they arent too picky of eaters. I fed mine crickets, blue bottle flies, roaches, different worms, spiders, grasshoppers etc.

What would you suggest as a UVB source?

Repti sun 5.0 UVB along with a household bulb for a basking spot. Depending on your temps and how far from the basking site 25 to 50 watts will do.

Any calcium/multivitamin suggestions?

I dont use multivitamins. I use calcium VERY lightly every feeding. You want to rely on a very good gutloading regimen to provide the necessary nutrients. Search sandrachameleon in the advanced search/users. She has a ton of good blogs and ones on gut loading. Too busy/lazy to search for it right this second.

Please note: He is male and 1-1.5 years old MAX. He looks alert and healthy (as far as I can see) and is a very bright green colour.

Thanks in Advance!

Steve:D
Click to expand...


Terrariums can work with Fischers but if he is emaciated and dehydrated you will need to give him tons of water first off. Not to mention they are heavy drinkers when healthy. It might be easier to use a screened enclosure or just play with what works with what you have. They are a shy species so lots of foliage is a must. I use ficus, schefflera (umbrella plant) and pothos for my animals. My animals would readily hand feed and come to the front of the cages to eat but did not like to be handled at all. Giving him his privacy will help him acclimate well too.

Any other specific questions ask away!!! Its nice to see someone wanting a multituberculata as a firsts chameleon. They are so much cooler than panthers or veileds:cool:

We need pics when you get him!! Also feel free to post pics of the enclosure while setting it up:)
 
And by no means did I take it that way. You have been nothing but helpfull.

Also, I will be posting pictures when I pick him up. So, if youd like to see his colour or hear about how hes been doing, I will be starting the thread in 2 weeks exactly. (Yes, I am counting the days lol)

Again thanks so much! :)
 
Dear Steve,
You should feed your chameleon crickets. I have heard they love to eat crickets!
Sincerely,
Nature18
 
there is a sea slug and a tree rat with the same name. kewl lookn cham tho, how big they get? Long lived?
 
@ Cainschams
Thanks alot! You just saved me some money with your home made dripper idea! It works very nicely! And I definitly agree with you when you said that they are cooler then veilds or panthers even though certain individuals have such beautiful colours.

Like I said pics will be coming as soon as i get him in and will be updated twice a month. I will also post pics of his enclosure once i get it all nicely set up.

Also, one more question... How long should a healthy male typically live for?

@nature
Funny, I heard they can eat certain worms and such and didnt know if that would be a suitable meal every once and a while. If so, what type of worms do they eat exactly?
 
Steve,

Just so you are aware, the chameleon you are looking at is actually not a true Fischer's Chameleon. The "Fischer's Chameleons" that are sold are actually different species that were once considered subspecies of the true Fischer's Chameleon (Kinyongia fischeri). These species are actually their own distinct species but inertia has resulting in them still being called Fischer's Chameleons. You most likely are looking at Kinyongia multituberculata, the West Usambara Two-horned Chameleon, but if you get pics, we can definitely ID it for you. This information is of little benefit to you as far as getting additional information goes, but its nice to know what you actually have.

As for the comments about screen enclosures vs glass enclosures, I tend to disagree with many people on this and I am a proponent for using glass terrariums for many species, including K. multituberculata. In my opinion, as long as the keeper considers the humidity retention in a glass enclosure and provides appropriate ventilation (either a glass terrarium with built in ventilation or fans, etc.), these enclosures can be excellent enclosures, particularly for montane species. You can read generally about using these enclosures here: http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

Also, I've never agreed with a lot of the notion that the appropriateness of glass enclosures has to do with location. It is common for people to say that these enclosures are best in the northern latitudes because of heat retention but typically this theory fails to account for two things. First, many southern areas have a preponderance of homes with air conditioning resulting in air inside that is cooler and drier than outside, both of which are perfect scenarios for using glass terrariums. Secondly, in most northern areas, temperatures and humidity during the summer are quite high and most houses lack air conditioning, resulting in air and humidity inside that is often higher than homes in the south, yet the idea that the northern, colder climates are better for glass still persists. With the appropriate care, glass enclosures are equally appropriate in the north or south.

Additionally, I completely disagree with the general assertion that substrate should be avoided. Whenever anyone suggests that substrate should be avoided for true chameleons, I always ask why then they suggest substrate for pygmy chameleons. True chameleons are no more likely to ingest substrate and become impacted than pygmy chameleons (in fact I might argue they are less so), yet the standard for keeping pygmy chameleons is to use substrate while the standard for true chameleons is to not. Obviously, however, if you have any animal that is actively ingesting substrate, it should be removed from said substrate. Further, you should choose your substrate wisely to avoid for fertilizers, additives (perlite, etc.) and large pieces. I use a fine organic soil.

Here are a couple other articles that may be of use to you:
http://www.chameleonnews.com/05DecKroo.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/05DecAndersonIntro.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/04AugBeveridge.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulWeldon.html

Chris
 
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