Please Help

[kinyonga]

Also...hoping it really is a male so it won't also have reproductive issues.

 

[Patm523]

Okay . @Patm523 please follow @Beman advice not mine. I am sorry I had it incorrect. I apologize.

Hey no worries. I will take all the advise I can get. Here are my two guys. The baby hiding in the branches is JJ. the other that is having issues is Moe

 

[MissSkittles]

Hey no worries. I will take all the advise I can get. Here are my two guys. The baby hiding in the branches is JJ. the other that is having issues is Moe

Do you have them in the same enclosure?

 

[kinyonga]

Please post a couple more photos of Moe. Is there a spur on Moe'sheel heel?

 

[Patm523]

Will put my responses in red.

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Moe has been with me for 4 to 5 months. As I said he is a veiled Chamelion and is a male.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Every now and again as he is grumpy and stresses when you get close to him. He turns black and green and hisses when I try to reach for hi. This is pretty typical of veileds. You may want to slowly build up trust with him thru hand feeding.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Crickets he devoures them. He gets 10 to 15 a day. He is also given BSF 2 times a week, wax worms. I used to give him horn worms, but I think he got bitten by one so now he runs from them. Dubai roaches now and again, but he really doesn't eat them. I put greens along with finely diced melon usually cantaloupe. He has not eatten any if the greens or melon though. That seems like a lot of feeders per day. Eventually you’ll be needing to cut back to every other day. Roaches are better sources of nutrition than crickets, so keep working on getting him to accept. Instead of hornworms, you could try silkworms...another great nutritional feeder and good for hydration. I would skip trying to give anything other than bugs for now. They don’t need anything but bugs. How are you gutloading? Whatever you put into your feeders, will end up in your cham. It’s more about passing nutrition to the cham and not just keeping the bugs alive. Will attach feeder and gutload infographics for you.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• I use Reptavite Calciumn every morning along with Flukers vitamin supplement. No d3 as I do it every morning. Are you giving the vitamin supplement daily? If so, that is way too much. Multivitamin should only be two feedings per month. You aren’t giving any Vit D3 which is essential and without it, their body can’t use the calcium. Calcium with D3 should also be two feedings per month. Most set up a schedule of rotating D3 and multivitamin weekly.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• I must every morning until everything is soaked. I have a friend that dies misting 2 times a day will I'm at work. I then mist before they go to bed. I see them drink. I have a reptile misting system but it can't be relied in so that is why I use a misting bottle.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• Medium brown in color, huge, firm but soft also has a yellow to white urine sack. No testing for parasites. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal done to check for parasites.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
• That's about all I know. I bought him from Flchams.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 24 x24x 36 inches glass. I tried the reptibreeze but no matter what I did I could not get humidity up. So I switch to all glass. The top is screen and the doors are open slightly all day. A picture would be really helpful.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• I use the T8 tropical bar light. I have a basking light that is 100 watt and a 100 heat emmitter. The ammitterr is never turned off. Lights are in from 8:30 to 8:30. I’m too new to chams to know how to properly use a T8. Most use T5 with a 5% uvb bulb. Unless it gets below 50* at night, turn the heat emitter off at night. A drop in temps at night is actually good.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Floir is at 72 degrees middle of cage is about 76 and the top is at 80. The basking temp is a bit too cool. It need to be around 90* for an adult male. How are you measuring your temps? How far is the basking branch from the bulb?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• I use a reptafogger for 12 out of 24 hours. There is also a bowl in the bottom to help with humidity. I have a digital gage for temp and humidity. Foggers should only be used at night in conjunction with the temp drop. Daytime humidity should be between 30-50% and can get to 80-100% when cool at night. Heat + excess humidity = risk for respiratory infection. If you have problems with humidity, wrapping 2-3 sides with a shower curtain and adding live plants can make a big difference.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• I have plants for them but no live plants, most are plastic or silk. Veiled like to nibble their plants, so real ones are best. They have been known to eat a fake leaf and get impacted. Pothos is my favorite to use. List of safe plants here. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• The cage us in the dining room so I guess it is high traffic. By the patio door. From the floor the tip if the cage is 5 ft 7 inches Heavy traffic can be stressful, so you may want to find a quieter area to put him. You also may want to raise his enclosure a bit. They feel safest when they are able to look down upon their world.
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
• Western Washington

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about

He has been in his latest shed for 4 days now. He has shed in one day 3 times before. Now I notice that his appitate is slowed. His back legs move but it is like he doesn't know what to do with them. He is wobbly, and drags his back end over his vines. I just not sure if this is something I need to take him to the vet for. I am new at this so just looking for advice. Really need some good pics of him. It sounds like it could be mbd. If he were just trying to scratch his legs or belly to help remove the shed, he wouldn’t be wobbly. Mbd is serious and really needs veterinary treatment ASAP. While adult chams do tend to decrease their food intake on their own and are slower to shed, that combined with the leg issue says there’s more at play here. If you need help finding a good cham vet, say the word and we’ll try to help. Is that Washington state or DC?

Thanks
Pat

I am in Washington State. I will adjust the vitamins and lower feeding schedule. I will introduce cal with d3 a couple times a month. I will see if I can locate live plants for them.

 

[Patm523]

Do you have them in the same enclosure?

No I don't. Moe would more than likely eat ok.

 

[Patm523]

Do you have them in the same enclosure?

No they are in seperate enclosers.

 

[Prince of Duval]

I am in Washington State. I will adjust the vitamins and lower feeding schedule. I will introduce cal with d3 a couple times a month. I will see if I can locate live plants for them.

I don’t really see any basking branches up top, and having a T8, your cham will need to be even closer to the UVB bulb. I’ll post the Arcadia UVB chart. Regarding the supplementation, I believe the Flukers multivitamin has just slightly more D3 than Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. If that’s the case, than it’s good your cham is getting some D3 so it’s probably not the worst thing, especially if your cham might be getting inadequate D3 from the UVB. I can’t speak for the doses of other vitamins he’s getting from the multivitamin so stick to the recommendation previous provided.

 

[Patm523]

I don’t really see any basking branches up top, and having a T8, your cham will need to be even closer to the UVB bulb. I’ll post the Arcadia UVB chart. Regarding the supplementation, I believe the Flukers multivitamin has just slightly more D3 than Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. If that’s the case, than it’s good your cham is getting some D3 so it’s probably not the worst thing, especially if your cham might be getting inadequate D3 from the UVB. I can’t speak for the doses of other vitamins he’s getting from the multivitamin so stick to the recommendation previous provided.

Got it. Now on the lighting, I have been told that the t8 is the best. I don't think so after reading a lot on all this. And it came from the same reptile shop that told me I Could keep horn worms in the fridge. I did and all died. Could you recommend a light for me. I want to get all of this as right as possible.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Pat

 

[kinyonga]

No photos of Moe so I can see the whole chameleon from the side close enough that I can tell if moe has MBD or not??

 

[Patm523]

No photos of Moe so I can see the whole chameleon from the side close enough that I can tell if moe has MBD or not??

I will get them in the morning as both are down for the night. I clean there encloses every morning so will take the pics then.

 

[Prince of Duval]

Got it. Now on the lighting, I have been told that the t8 is the best. I don't think so after reading a lot on all this. And it came from the same reptile shop that told me I Could keep horn worms in the fridge. I did and all died. Could you recommend a light for me. I want to get all of this as right as possible.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Pat

As @MissSkittles indicated, T5 is recommended but a T8 linear is not the worst thing if your UVB levels are good at the basking branch. I use the Arcadia ProT5 single bulb reflector with a 6% bulb myself.

 

[MissSkittles]

I am in Washington State. I will adjust the vitamins and lower feeding schedule. I will introduce cal with d3 a couple times a month. I will see if I can locate live plants for them.

More branches or vines are needed to give them both little roads to travel.

 

[MissSkittles]

Got it. Now on the lighting, I have been told that the t8 is the best. I don't think so after reading a lot on all this. And it came from the same reptile shop that told me I Could keep horn worms in the fridge. I did and all died. Could you recommend a light for me. I want to get all of this as right as possible.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Pat

Most pet stores have no real idea about proper cham husbandry and will just sell you whatever they have on hand. I’ve noticed most big box pet stores don’t even carry T5’s...just T8.

 

[CrisBruns]

Got it. Now on the lighting, I have been told that the t8 is the best. I don't think so after reading a lot on all this. And it came from the same reptile shop that told me I Could keep horn worms in the fridge. I did and all died. Could you recommend a light for me. I want to get all of this as right as possible.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Pat

I would visit http://www.lightyourreptiles.com and email them with your questions. We have a really large enclosure and I thought I should get a T5 12% but after talking to Todd he pointed me to the one I should get and am happy with the purchase and the extensive information/explanation that he provided.

 

[Beman]

@Patm523 For lighting on these enclosures you would want a 5.0 or 6% bulb in a single bulb fixture. with that you would place basking 9 inches below.
For more extensive info on lighting visit https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-replicating-the-sun/

I am not familiar with the flukers supplements. They are not commonly used. Reptivite without D3 should be given two times a month. Then you need a calcium with D3 to give two times a month. These should be rotated week to week. Then at all other feedings you need a calcium without D3.

Really go through the feedback in that help form there are multiple husbandry issues.

Now then there is the fact that from the pictures you gave of Moe I am seeing a female chameleon as well. So posting additional pictures will be important. If it is a female then you will have to put in a lay bin for her to lay infertile eggs.

 

[Patm523]

Oh brother. I didn't want a female as I know the issues with them. I love her just the same though. I have decided to take her/him to the vet and have them test for parasites as well as other things. I do have a vet that specialises in exotics.

Here are this morning pictures for you to look at.

 

[Beman]

Oh brother. I didn't want a female as I know the issues with them. I love her just the same though. I have decided to take her/him to the vet and have them test for parasites as well as other things. I do have a vet that specialises in exotics.

Here are this morning pictures for you to look at.

Well that is a boy... but has one of the smallest casques I have seen on a male. Has tarsal spurs and male pattern.
@kinyonga am I seeing signs of MBD... Back leg in the first pic is bowed?

 

[Patm523]

He was fine before the shed. His back legs are just dangling. When he goes to move the back legs he has issues with finding a branch or leaf. He just kind of flales them around. He can still grasp some what but it is like he has nerve damage.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Beman]

He was fine before the shed. His back legs are just dangling. When he goes to move the back legs he has issues with finding a branch or leaf. He just kind of flales them around. He can still grasp some what but it is like he has nerve damage.

Thanks for all your help.

This can also be signs of MBD. With the T8 lighting/branches sitting low and the incorrect supplements. It is a very strong possibility.

Hopefully the vet can give you a proper diagnosis.