Possible first time Chameleon owner

[sharksfan11]

Hi all,

I've been stalking this website now for a couple of weeks as I decide whether or not a chameleon is for me. I have been bugging a bunch of people and doing a bunch of research, but I still have some questions. This is where you guys come in.

1) Is there really a difference between Veiled vs Panther for first time owners? I've been getting mixed reviews. I know neither should be handled often, but I've read that Panthers are a little more accepting of human contact.

2) Are Panthers always colorful once they reach 18 months? or are they a brown color unless stressed/excited/experience a temperature change?

3) As far as night time heating, do I have to have a 3rd light, or is there another way to keep him warm at night? We live in Northern CA, but don't leave the heater on at night, so he will need some kind of heat for sure. I'm just wondering if I can get away with not doing a 3rd light. Also I've seen that there are two kinds of light- black or red. Which is better?

I think that's all for now, but I'm sure there will be more.

Thanks in advance.

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2 RES- Nibbler & Sheldon
Hopefully a future Cham- Reptar

 

[LundqvistNYR]

well I used to ask myself this question. I am a first time chameleon owner also. My first chameleon i got in late january was a panther chameleon he is super cute and just getting his colors i feel like he is always happy until he just shed now hes being a little bugger but I lobe him! But I also have a 9month old adult and his colors are always there they just get darker when he is mad or stressed! They both seem happy and calm. But I would go with what you feel comfortable i kinda jumped the gun .

 

[eberts33]

I'm actually in the process of getting a cham, so I know where you're coming from. I'm not entirely sure on the behavioral differences between veiled and panthers, just that veiled ones are less expensive so therefore can make it less of a financial burden to start with. As far as night time heating, however, I do know that you're not supposed to have any type of light. This includes red, blue, or whatever other type of bulb are advertised for night time use. They can sense the presence of light and it can disrupt their sleep pattern and stress them out. It's actually healthy to have a temperature drop at night, so as long as it doesn't dip too far below 60 (which is what I've read in other sections here), it'll be fine. Just a heat bulb and UV bulb during the day will suffice. Hope that helps a little!

 

[Kath44]

No light at night. Ever. They can go down to in the 50's at night. If it gets below that, a room heater or ceramic heat emitter can be used.
I wouldn't bother with a coloured bulb. An ordinary house bulb, incandescent is good for the heat/basking site.
You will also need a UVB light. 12 hrs lights on and 12 off.
That's for both the lights.
Check the caresheets over on the left, read read and read some more.
Ask plenty, or do a search on the forum to get the fab advice this place offers.
Panthers are the more colourful, male ones anyhow. Females don't have the same colours as the males.
Veiled males will have a spur on their back feet, females don't.
Check out the site sponsors who breed good chams.
Kath.

 

[Kath44]

No light at night. Ever. They can go down to in the 50's at night. If it gets below that, a room heater or ceramic heat emitter can be used.
I wouldn't bother with a coloured bulb. An ordinary house bulb, incandescent is good for the heat/basking site.
You will also need a UVB light. 12 hrs lights on and 12 off.
That's for both the lights.
Check the caresheets over on the left, read read and read some more.
Ask plenty, or do a search on the forum to get the fab advice this place offers.
Panthers are the more colourful, male ones anyhow. Females don't have the same colours as the males.
Veiled males will gave a spur on their back feet, females don't.
Check out the site sponsors who breed good chams.
Kath.

 

[Juliaf3]

Welcome welcome! You're definitely in the right place! I say you should get one! They are amazing creatures! BUT like previously stated, no light at night. Just a couple things off the top of my head that are crucial:

1.) insects and gut loading

2.) supplementation (calcium with and without D3) and multivitamin

3.) proper lighting to help them digest and absorb supplements

4.) cage set up

These are all key factors to raising these magnificent creatures in captivity. The information available can be quite overwhelming! Take your time, it's very easy to get excited and rush the process. My suggestion would be if and when you decide and chameleon is what you want, decide what type and Completely set up your cage. Have it run for a few days and get all the kinks worked out. Keep in mind a baby will require a smaller cage, and will eventually need a larger one. I personally have a jackson and a panther. Love them both dearly. My panther is just a baby, so his colors are atill developing. I was intrigued by the unbelievable appearance of these.....so much color it doesn't even seem real! My jackson, his dinosaur -like appearance with those three horns caught my sons eye! Hope this was helpful! Again, welcome to the forums!

 

[oblgobl]

Hi all,

I've been stalking this website now for a couple of weeks as I decide whether or not a chameleon is for me. I have been bugging a bunch of people and doing a bunch of research, but I still have some questions. This is where you guys come in.

1) Is there really a difference between Veiled vs Panther for first time owners? I've been getting mixed reviews. I know neither should be handled often, but I've read that Panthers are a little more accepting of human contact.

I have also heard that veilds tend to be grumpier than panthers but alot of it's all down to the individual cham. Most of my panthers don't appreciate handling at all although two of them do. Some people also have veilds that will happily be handled. So I would say you're more likely to get a panther that enjoys handling but still unlikely.

2) Are Panthers always colorful once they reach 18 months? or are they a brown color unless stressed/excited/experience a temperature change?

Adult males always have nice colours on them unless they are cold or sick. They do fire up when they are excited/angry but a healthy male will stay nice and bright in his relaxed state. A healthy females color will vary but it's usually a pastely peach colour turning black with red/peach bars when gravid.

3) As far as night time heating, do I have to have a 3rd light, or is there another way to keep him warm at night? We live in Northern CA, but don't leave the heater on at night, so he will need some kind of heat for sure. I'm just wondering if I can get away with not doing a 3rd light. Also I've seen that there are two kinds of light- black or red. Which is better?

Nothing really to add here exept that it's only a myth that chams can't see red or black lights. As others have said as long as it doesn't get below 50 a temperature drop will be beneficial.

I think that's all for now, but I'm sure there will be more.



Thanks in advance.

----
2 RES- Nibbler & Sheldon
Hopefully a future Cham- Reptar

Great to see you're doing research before getting an animal and not after. I think alot of people are put off by the fact that they don't like handling. They may not sit on your lap like some reps will but it's alot of fun just to watch them go about their day. And they are without a doubt the funnest rep to feed.

 

[sharksfan11]

Thanks everyone for the information. It was especially helpful to know the night light is unnecessary. Our house can get cold in the dead of winter, but never below 50.

My plan is to get a 24x24x48 reptibreeze and shrink it down for a juvenile using an 18x18 table with that white plastic tray on top of the table. I read that on one of these forums, seems brilliant.

I've also read a forum/response page that discusses costs of the chameleons. Responders appeared to have a pretty good breakdown for costs (excluding electricity). So If I'm figuring my average costs, is the list below a pretty good representation of what I will need after my initial habitat is established? Is there anything else I'm not anticipating?


Gut-loaded Feeder insects - Crickets/superworms/dubias (yuck)
Calcium dusting
Substrate changes
mister/dripper upkeep
Lights/lamps as the burn out
*Vet bills*

I saw this waterfall (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/waterfall.php) that I think would look cool in the tank, but I wasn't sure if it was appropriate for chams. Thought it might also help with the humidity. Please advise

Thanks again.

----
2 RES- Nibbler & Sheldon
Hopefully a future Cham- Reptar

 

[Kath44]

Most will say don't bother with the waterfall. Gets too much to clean it, can harbour bacteria etc.
You won't be able to buy gut loaded feeders. You need to do that yourself. Feeding them fruits n veggies alongside a commercial dry gut load if you choose.
Or you can check out sandra chameleons blog out on gut loading.
You will need plain calcium powder, calcium with d3 powder and a multi vit powder.
And no substrate. Your Cham may eat it and it's much easier to clean up if you leave the bottom clear, or paper towels.
Kath.

 

[kplatvoet]

Waterfalls aren't recommended as they are a breading ground for bacteria -
You will not need substrate as it's better to just leave the bottom of the cage bare (easier cleaning too) -
Sounds to me like your leaning toward a panther - the most expensive added expense for me was the two other chameleons I got because I really wanted a just a little green guy to begin with ( I'm not complaining really I love my two others) don't settle for a species get what you want. There are some really snotty of both but if you take your time and hand feed they usually warm up enough to just mildly dislike you- though I don't know about veilds there's one guy who's veilded has tried to burn his house down two or three times...
If you get a good mister you can use tap water if your water is drinkable - I filter mine using a britta as it's hard water - I used distilled in my monsoon and it still broke in a month. I'd add in some silkworms - hornworms and blue bottle flies to your feeder - but that doesn't really add to costs as the more of one the less of another you'd use.

 

[sharksfan11]

Waterfalls aren't recommended as they are a breading ground for bacteria -
There are some really snotty of both but if you take your time and hand feed they usually warm up enough to just mildly dislike you- though I don't know about veilds there's one guy who's veilded has tried to burn his house down two or three times...

This made me laugh out loud. Thanks!

I am really torn on the breed I want. I love the idea of the colors on the Panther, but I have totally fallen in love with this one little veiled guy, so it's hard to pick. Ultimately I think I will be perfectly happy with either.

Thanks for the info, I'll pass on the waterfall. The substrate I was planning on using is that reptile green carpet, it's what I use in my turtles' basking area. They seem to like it, and it's nicer than the glass bottom. But I can see the argument for no substrate in the cham cage.

 

[symphonica]

The problems with substrate is that chams can eat it if it's loose and small enough to fit in their mouths (major GI blockages), and it can harbor bacteria. Even the green eco-carpets, if moist, will harbor bacteria.

Also, if you're using a reptibreeze, you may want to look into a draining system.

Biggest mistakes newbies make that jeopardize the health of the cham include:
-not enough/incorrect UVB (metabolic bone disease)
ReptiSun is better than ReptiGlo, T8 tubes are better than coiled bulbs, T5HO is best. So, recommended is 5.0 ReptiSun in either T8 or T5HO. Top of the line would be Arcadia 6%.
-temperatures not right (affects appetite & color)
-thermal burns (can cause skin infections)
-too much humidity (respiratory infections)
-too little humidity (dehydration)
-improper supplementation (metabolic bone disease, organ damage)

Remember, that if you get a female, you'll need to prep for egg-laying, regardless of whether there's a male in her presence of not. They're like chickens and will just keep laying eggs.


In terms of color in panthers, remember that females are grey, brown, etc. Male coloration is affected slightly by mood, etc., but a red isn't going to turn into like a blue. It's more shades. My red and green cham turns red and yellow. And I believe that price definitely affects quality and color. And remember, when considering color, it's not just the sire, but the dam's sire that's also important.

 

[sharksfan11]

Thanks for the information everyone. I'm glad to have a place to go to get my questions answered. I've done a lot of research and this forum helps a bunch. I think I'm ready to get a chameleon. I wanna get a cool set up and have it running for a couple of days before I get one. So I'll keep you posted, and I'll post pictures if/when I get Reptar.

 

[rango7]

sorry for the subject change

Sorry to change the subject, but can some one please verify that if this is male or female. I believe it is a male, but my friends thinks female. Thanks

 

[sdraiders619]

The back foot will have a noticeable white bump on the back of it if its a male

 

[Psychobunny]

Veileds tend to be more territorial then panthers, hence their aggressive behaviour, which can actually add to their personality.
I have 2 veiled chams, and they are both very tame, they dont hiss or try to bite, but they can be very stubborn at times.
They are also quite smart, I think they are smarter then panthers or jacksons, but that is based only on my personal experience.
They tend to learn faster, and interact with their invironment in novel ways.

 

[rango7]

So would you say mine is a male then? I attached a picture with my first post

 

[brownie64]

So would you say mine is a male then? I attached a picture with my first post

Yes from the little bump on the side of his back feet, or claws if you will, it looks like he is a male to me. The females don't have a bump at all. You will notice as he gets older he will show more vivid colors, and his veil will grow taller than a females. And females normally are just light green, maybe with light yellow dots. But when they become gravid, WOW the are beautiful, and put the males to shame. However the fact that they lay eggs, is why you would want a male, because the laying of eggs really takes a toll on them. The longest I could ever get a female to live was about 3-4 years. Males on the other hand I've had some live about 9 years.

 

[rango7]

Thanks. That's what I thought, but a friend thought otherwise. I can't wait for him to get bigger.