Possible MBD/locusts stuck

[Hamsterwheel]

Hi everyone, this is my first post so please be gentle : ) I've filled out as much as I can about him, I'm sorry if any of it is blank, he's actually my boyfriends Cham so I'm not as clued up.


Your Chameleon - veiled, male, approx 1 year 11 months and had since last jan.
Handling - generally once a week, more whe it's been warm this season
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? Mostly locusts 7-8 every 2 days. Mealworms once per week, watercress (our only successful veggie so far)Dusting with nutrobal with recommened dose (1 pinch per kilo) broccoli, carrot, sweet potato.
Watering - bottle mister throughout the day misting the whole viv. Usually done 4-5 times per day. Cham seen drinking off leaves and glass.What kind of watering technique do you use?
Fecal Description - ranges from dark-yellowish in colour not as frequently as usual lately. Hasn't been tested for parasites.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - glass with vented top. 3"x2"x2
Lighting - Double lamp above viv UVB and heat (not sure on wattage) kept on 7-7pm and left off overnight as advised. This is the same lamps we had with his small viv though we're yet to upgrade.
Temperature/humidity - I'm not sure! Monitored by temp and humidity gauge inside viv, temp regulated to recommended levels.
Plants - artificial plants only
Placement - Where is your cage located? Located in living room facing window. High traffic area atm until we move next year (small apartment ) viv is sat on 3 foot stand.

Problem started last week with his jaw which looks misaligned. He spent the last few days with his mouth slightly open. It's only since yesterday that we've noticed he's struggling to eat. He currently has a locust stuck in the mouth, half hanging off that he can't shift. Can we remove it? How? By the look of things he's been trying to eat around it.
No problems with mobility, and his limbs don't look bowed. No falls that I know of but have put a towell down in case he does.
His veil has dented suddenly, like it's losing it's shape.
Eyes not bulging, not sunken in that I can see.
No signs of infection that I can see.

We did upgrade his viv in the last 3 weeks so we thought it was stress at first.

Appointments with our vet are scarce so I've emailed him or advice and awaiting a reply. To be honest, we're freaking out. After researching the magnitude of MBD is beyond our knowledge.

What can we do? How would a vet treat him? What can we do to help him?

Please help : (

 

[Kath44]

Could you post a pic of him? Might help members help you a bit more.
How old is the UVB bulb? Most need replacing every 6 months. I think the Arcadia can go to 12 months, but most change before that.
Do you use plain calcium? I have the nutrobal one and it has d3 in it aswell as multi vit, but I have plain calcium too for every feeding. The other gets used twice a month.
Kath.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Thank you kath. He has calci dust which goes on his feeds. I think we've had the bulb a while, they're Eco terra I think.
I feel our ignorance has made him this way. Tried some mealworms today and he can't get a grip on them to eat : (

This is rango.

 

[adrouin]

Are you sure it's a UVB bulb? Exo terra makes both full spectrum and UVB bulbs.. I'm not an expert but he looks like he has MBD and is dehydrated.

Good luck I hope everything turns out for you.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Pretty sure it's a repti glo 5.0 compact lamp. He's been drinking a lot more lately but how much water is enough?
I've been in contact with the vet so hopefully can arrange an appointment in working hours. I just hope it's not too late : (

 

[Kath44]

Poor fella. How long has he had the locust stuck? Hopefully the vet visit will put him right. Not certain about the mbd, he looks quite skinny and possibly some kind of infection in his casque. I see a slight lump on his cheek. Let us know how he gets on at the vet.
Kath.

 

[ChameleonFan1989]

For a start, yellowish especially dark urate isn't good and I am assuming you mean his urate and not his poop. (Poop should be brown and firm) Urate should be pure white, any yellow or orange means dehydration so his hydration needs a look into ASAP.

Try and introduce more feeders besides locusts and meal worms, try dubia roaches, silk worms, occasional wax worm and also butter worms and crickets variety is better. Also don't use D3 everyday, too much can be just as harmful as not enough. I personally use Repashy's calcium plus, it does have D3 in it but not alot so you don't overdose by using it everyday

But hope the vet visit goes well for him.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Thank you both. He looks a lot better today, more active and his mouth is shut but still a bit wonky. Tried him with some food today but he can't get a good hold on it. He's really trying so his appetite is still there.

Will try him on some cress today as he usually just goes directly to it rather than sticking his tongue on it. I hope this isn't a stupid question but can we dust the veg with calci dust too? And thanks, will get some of the repashy supplement today : )

 

[sharp229]

I would ensure that you still take him to the vet, even though he is doing better. There is definitely something serious going on. Like Kath said, his casque (veil) has some serious deformation and his mouth should close properly. It looks to me like it may be MBD, but hard to tell in the picture. He also looks somewhat emaciated, but that could also be the angle and lighting of the picture.

Also, how old is the bulb and what is the wattage? How close can he get to it? It is critical that it not be more than 6 months old, even if it is putting out visible light. If you don't know the age you would need to replace it with a new one.

If you could post more current pictures of him and the enclosure that would help.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

We still have an appointment with the vet today. In honesty I think the bulb may be over 6 months old, not by much but still over the recommended time : / we have another on order, it's 13 which is the same as previous. It's a compact lamp with heat lamp and sits above the viv as we'd been advised. He now has a vine below it. we have a temp gauge at that level and at the moment it reads 75. Lighting confuses me, Rango is my boyfriends Cham so he usually deals with his set up. Trying to play a bigger part now.

Wondering, would a strip light be better in distributing heat? We can't upgrade until payday anyway as we're putting our money into the vet bill.

He does indeed look thin in the photo. It's only been within the last few days that we've noticed him struggling to eat he's usually a good eater. I've tried banana in a dish on his level, thought it might help as it's sticky so may be easier to grab.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Just an update. Vet went ok, took some bloods but that's it. Wants to check kidney function. No calcium injection though : / having to hand feed him at the mo. Not sure on the supplements though vet wasn't too clear-can we calcidust daily on each feed as normal and give a nutrobal paste from syringe on top of that also? Have ordered Exo terra liquid calcium too how do I fit that in?? I'm worried I'll overdose him : /

 

[Carlton]

Poor fella. How long has he had the locust stuck? Hopefully the vet visit will put him right. Not certain about the mbd, he looks quite skinny and possibly some kind of infection in his casque. I see a slight lump on his cheek. Let us know how he gets on at the vet.
Kath.

It could be that an infection has caused damage to his jaw or mouth...and the casque and cheek abnormality are signs of the same basic problem. Chams can get infections in their sinuses that can spread to different areas of the skull. Possibly an exray might show more? He may be in pain which is why he's reluctant or unable to chew? I agree that something really looks wrong but its hard to tell exactly what.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Thanks : ) we managed to get the locust out but we've stopped feeding them to him for now as they're too big to swallow. Hand feeding seems to be going well. He's very stubborn about it though.
He didn't suggest an xray but surprised me, but I suppose the blood test would give some more info. It made his tail go very dark though, apparently that's normal.

 

[kinyonga]

Glad you got the locust out.
You could give him some baby food for a while while his mouth heals...squash, etc. Just ease a little into his mouth at a time along with the insects you are hand feeding him. Hope his mouth will be better soon. Has he always been able to shoot the tongue out fully before this?

If he does have MBD (and I can't really tell from the photo) you will first have to correct it (along with providing the proper husbandry) by giving him extra calcium (liquids absorb better) until his bones are strong again.

Make sure you're providing UVB light (which shouldn't pass through glass or plastic) so he can produce the D3 needed to use the calcium in the diet.

You need to make sure the temperatures are right to aid in proper digestion.

Good luck!

You need to supplement properly and feed/gutload the insects properly.
Since most feeder insects have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio its recommended that you dust at most feedings with a phosphorous - free calcium powder.

It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and this leaves it to you to decide whether he needs any prEformed vitamin a or not. PrEformed sources do build up in the system so be careful with them.

You can also dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure he gets some without overdosing him and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB.

Phosphorus, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin D3 are all important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon and need to be in balance.

 

[Hamsterwheel]

Had the blood results back, low in calcium but not dangerously so. He said there is an infection so thanks to those that have pointed that out. Seeing him today for antibiotics.
He hadn't pooped for a while but had one earlier, looked like he was struggling though. Fed him some pear purée to move it along a bit so hopefully that's helped. His urate is pretty watery though with a tinge of yellow, could this be a sign of the infection or dehydration? We're syringe feeding him everything so I guess he's not having enough water.

 

[Carlton]

Had the blood results back, low in calcium but not dangerously so. He said there is an infection so thanks to those that have pointed that out. Seeing him today for antibiotics.
He hadn't pooped for a while but had one earlier, looked like he was struggling though. Fed him some pear purée to move it along a bit so hopefully that's helped. His urate is pretty watery though with a tinge of yellow, could this be a sign of the infection or dehydration? We're syringe feeding him everything so I guess he's not having enough water.

A yellow tinge suggests dehydration, but not severe. Orange hard urates would be a sign of major dehydration. He's under a lot of physical stress which can be dehydrating on its own. If he's not active and in pain he's not drinking as much as he normally would.