Possibly Sick Female Veiled Chameleon (unexperienced owner)

gkersey106 · Oct 8, 2012

I will start off by saying I have never had experience caring for any sort of reptile up until 2 days ago.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - 11 month old, female Veiled Chameleon
Handling - Once a day if that. She crawls to and on me
Feeding - I have been trying to feed her 3/4inch crickets that I have not gut-loaded yet as I am not sure what to feed them. I have not personally seen her eat though
Supplements - none, yet. I plan on going to the pet store to purchase some soon
Watering - I mist the environment 4-5 times a day with a spray bottle. I see her licking her lips and the water off the glass.
Fecal Description - have not seen her defecate yet.
History - I have only owned her 2 days

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Glass with a screen top. its the one with the two doors on the front with vents under the doors, 17"x24"x17"
Lighting - Reptiglo 5.0 UVB and a standard fluorescent house light to try and bring the temp up
Temperature - highest I have seen so far is 80. I have been trying raise the heat as I know this is too low
Humidity - 65-75%, I have been misting the environment and there is some sort of absorbent washable mat on the bottom of the environment
Plants - none, all fake vines
Placement - Currently in my bathroom until I build a stand for it in my bedroom. top of environment is 58" off floor
Location - North Florida

Current Problem -

I recently (2days ago) bought an 11month female Veiled Chameleon at a reptile convention in town on my birthday. After talking with the guy at one of the tables he made it seem fairly easy to take care of a Chameleon, so I decided to treat myself to a new pet. Since then I have done much more research online so I know a good amount about taking care of a Chameleon and I cannot begin to state how unprepared the breeder at the convention left me after purchasing his chameleon. I'm not idiot and I hate the idea of neglecting animals so I want to do what I can to make sure my Chameleon stays healthy.

I will describe her behavior over the past two days:

Once I purchased her I transported her in the environment that the breeder sold me.
The ride home was probably very stressful because once we got home she did not move from her spot in the environment for the rest of the night.
When I woke up the next day she is on the ground and in the corner of the environment.
When I opened up the door to mist her down she immediately crawls over and starts climbing out of the cage and up my arm.
I put her back in the vines under the light and as far as I know she stayed there until I got home 6 or so hours after leaving her.
After waking up this morning I found her on the floor in the corner of the environment appearing to be digging (a sign of laying eggs I know) but she does not appear to be bearing eggs as she is not all that big.
I left my GoPro to record her while I was away at class for 2 hours and after reviewing the photos, she climbed back down to the ground, walked around and climbed back up under the light and has stayed there sleeping for the past 4 hours (I also know that sleeping during the day is a sign of illness).
Throughout the 2 days I have had her I have not seen her eat once

As for her environment it has been at a steady 65-75% humidity and around 80 degrees. I have one 5.0 UVB light bulb and another fluorescent household light bulb to try and bring the temp up. Plenty of vines and crickets, and a bowl of standing water (the breeder said its acts as a litter-box for chameleons) and I mist the environment 3-4 times a day.
I am worried that she is sick as she has the lethargic symptoms and as far as I know has not eaten in 2 days. I have probably put a total of 15 or so crickets in there but I have been finding plenty that have escaped so its unclear if she has eaten them. I am looking for help on what to do to ensure she stays healthy.

Kate · Oct 8, 2012

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your little one appears to be sick. There are a few things you will need to change but could you copy , paste and fill in the form , link above and hopefully we can help you.

Elizadolots · Oct 8, 2012

Hi! I'm sorry you're having problems. As Kate says, fill out the "how to ask for help" form. Just click that link in her post, copy the questions, paste them into a reply and add your information.

In the meantime, I have a question: did you just happen to catch her with her eye closed or is she keeping her eyes closed a lot?

I'm also going to make a few suggestions. First, it's not unusual for them to take a week to adjust after a change and it sounds like the drive home might have been pretty exciting for her. So, be patient with her.

Second, I strongly recommend establishing a water drip so that she has access to water for most of the day.

Third, I strongly recommend removing the standing bowl of water. If the intent is to provide water for crickets, then put a wet paper towel or sponge on the bottom of the cage. The open water is just an invitation for her to fall in. We have had stories here of chameleons falling into the water, being stunned and drowning.

gkersey106 · Oct 8, 2012

I have now included the required info along with a picture of the setup. I check on her every 30 mins or so and sometimes she is moving and looking around and other times she has her eyes closed.

AngieL · Oct 8, 2012

Moving to a new place can be stressful for a chameleon, especially an older one that's been in the same place for a long time or one that's been taken around a lot.

Not eating for a few days is normal sign of stress so don't be too worried about that! Female adults don't require a lot of to eat and it's good to keep the food intake down to help reduce the likelihood of her producing large infertile clutches of eggs. stressed chams can also try to escape and scratch around trying to get out.

Sleeping through the day is a bad sign but I would give her a few days to settle in and see how she is.

Meantime, here's a great care blog with a care sheet by chameleonsinmyhouse https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/

And a great blog by jannb about egg laying https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

Of she doesn't settle in the next few days a vet visit may be in order. If she is sick please know that you've not done anything wrong, 2 days in your care couldn't cause her to fall ill that fast!

Kate · Oct 8, 2012

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
I have posted link for a very good blog. First your viv is a bit small for an 11 month old Cham. Most use 18 by 18 by 48. Your crickets need to be dusted with plain calcium daily and calcium with d3 twice a month and a multivit twice a month. Gutloading is what you feed your crickets. What goes into crickets goes into your Cham.you can have dry and wet. Dry ie cricket crack. Wet carrot squash romain fruit and veg you have around. Check out Sandrachameleons blogs. I agree the water dish needs to go.

gkersey106 · Oct 8, 2012

water dish is gone

as far as the environment I'm kinda bummed out the breeder sold it to me probably knowing that it was too small. I spent a pretty penny on her and the environment and after doing the research I fear that I was ripped off. I'm a handy man kind of guy so I'm probably going to look into making my own. Does anyone know of a good place to look for tips on that kind of thing?

Elizadolots · Oct 8, 2012

While that enclosure is smaller than is usually recommended, for a female, it is probably workable, at least for awhile.

You should check the enclosure forum on this board for tips on building a cage. If you build your own, you can make sure things like drainage are right from the get go.

Where are you measuring your temperatures? Just try to get around 83, 84 degrees 8 inches below the basking bulb. If the bottom of the cage is 70 degrees, it's fine. In fact, you want there to be a big change in temperature from top to bottom and for a female, slightly cooler is better.

gkersey106 · Oct 9, 2012

Also I just noticed these spots earlier. they are especially prominent on only one side and also around the armpit of her front leg

Elizadolots · Oct 9, 2012

I've seen the spots in the other thread. I suspect they are bruises from the travelling experience. However, I could be wrong. It's very good that you have documented the spots because should they get worse, you have this record to show the progress

gkersey106 · Oct 9, 2012

you can actually compare the spots with the first picture (first night) and the one just posted (3rd night)

gkersey106 · Oct 9, 2012

Update: still has not eaten. is beginning to look slim

she has still not eaten. I am getting worried as you can see from the pictures she looks slim. Maybe she is bearing eggs? one of the pictures shows some lumpiness behind and around her legs. Last night she drank a LOT of water and I have not seen her defecate yet either. please help. I am getting concerned

SarahcoadunatioZac · Oct 9, 2012

Possibly impacted?

I've heard of a quick blend you can do for malnourished chameleons, I don't know the recipe so hopefully one of the VETs can chime in shortly.\

She doesn't look good at all, but I'm no expert epically on females. Definitely nothing you did though, that ill that fast I would blame the breeder. My guy had difficulties when I first brought him home but within three days he was hand feeding and drinking.

Good luck, hope your veiled gets better!

justjumpit621 · Oct 9, 2012

She may have eggs, so you should try to make a lay bin for her. Read Jannb's blog that was posted for you a few posts back. She doesn't look great, and I suspect the "breeder" was a twit

you could try giving her a warm soak also in case she is impacted, just to the top of her legs and keep a good eye on her. Also she does look a bit dehydrated, you can also try putting a plant in the shower and bouncing hot water from the shower head off the wall onto the plant for her to take a nice warm shower. You want the droplets to be small and not pounding the chameleon which is why you aim it at the wall.

sandrachameleon · Oct 9, 2012

Welcome!

dont worry

gkersey106 · Oct 9, 2012

Great! All very helpful information! Do you think I should take her in for a vet visit tomorrow or let it ride out for another day or two and see if she improves

ChameleonMom · Oct 10, 2012

No she doesn't look great, but she CAN go without food for a few more days, even tho' those pics tell a different story! She is pretty thin and emaciated. She looks to me like she's egg laiden so it would be great if you could place a laying bin (at least 12 inches deep with damp but not soaking (washed) sand/dirt mix. Make sure a tunnel can be made without it collapsing in on Darla). If she shows interest in the laying bin you MUST leave her completely alone - if she see's you watching her she may abandon her plans to lay. Even better would be placing a towel over the front of her enclosure so she knows she's alone. Glad you took the standing water out - that is a breeding ground for bacteria and always a BAD idea for your cham's enclosure. It would also be helpful if you put a container on top of her cage with a pinprick hole in it so she can have a steady source of running water. She may look at it for a while but eventually she will learn that this is where she can go for hydration. I would also consider hand feeding in the next few days (only if she shows no interest in laying eggs)...otherwise leave her alone until she's laid and then hydrate her like crazy and hand feed her gut-loaded crickets laced with calcium. If she lays any eggs she will require an infusion of water and food after her exhausting dig and lay in the bin. Good luck - she's still got a chance - don't give up on her! Oh, and a trip to the vet is always a great idea with a new cham member even if there is nothing amiss. Make sure to take a fresh fecal sample so it can be checked for parasites. Again, good luck - I'll be cheering for Darla's success story!

ChameleonMom · Oct 10, 2012

gkersey106 said:
Great! All very helpful information! Do you think I should take her in for a vet visit tomorrow or let it ride out for another day or two and see if she improves

Things can go really bad, really quick with these sensitive little babes...I would try to get her interested in the laying bin today and if she shows no inclination to go in it (put a vine leading into the bin so she can get in and out) then I would take her to the vet for a fecal AND an x-ray of her belly, say tomorrow. At that point you will know for sure if she's carrying eggs and is eggbound, or not and is just really stressed. If it IS stress I would force feed her a couple crickets and then leave her alone for a couple days and see if she improves, but only after a trip to the vet to discount any immediate health issues. Fingers crossed!

gkersey106 · Oct 10, 2012

I took her to the vet today, and because she has not defecated I had none to give to him. He seems to think it may possibly be worms but he really didn't seem sure. He gave her some worm medicine and he gave me some liquid calcium to try to feed to her once or twice a day. He said if she doesn't improve by monday to bring her in and if she does, to bring her in two weeks for the second half of the worm medicine.

ChameleonMom · Oct 10, 2012

gkersey106 said:
I took her to the vet today, and because she has not defecated I had none to give to him. He seems to think it may possibly be worms but he really didn't seem sure. He gave her some worm medicine and he gave me some liquid calcium to try to feed to her once or twice a day. He said if she doesn't improve by monday to bring her in and if she does, to bring her in two weeks for the second half of the worm medicine.

Glad to hear you took Darla to the vet although it doesn't sound as if your problems with her were resolved. Did the vet determine if she was carrying eggs? If I were you, I would still put a laying bin in her enclosure, just in case! If she has some and doesn't lay, she can become eggbound and die.

Lets hope the worm medication helps her and she begins to eat. If I were you though, I would probably start force feeding her a couple of crickets per day (to start) just to help her keep her strength during the medication period. Also, if you get some food into her it obviously will help her defecate and then you can take that to the vet for a fecal. Did the vet say to just give her the calcium by itself or were you to soak it onto a feeder? I guess as long as it gets inside her, the way it gets there doesn't matter. Also, remember to keep her hydrated - the medication may be hard on her kidneys and she'll be drinking more. A drip system (or cup as I mentioned above) will help immensely in between the times you are available to mist.

If she does not respond to the medication, please do not hesitate to take her back to the vet and ask for an x-ray. Again, fingers crossed you have some good news soon. Best wishes for Darla!

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