Pothos toxicity, what's up with it???

[jamest0o0]

Ok while yall are discussing this.... What are you using in outdoor cages for Veiled chams? I need something that can handle sun and temps getting to about 75.

I can't add my normal indoor plants because they die off in direct sun. I was looking at plants and saw that Jasmine is considered non toxic to dogs and cats. But I am hesitant trying something that has not been used with Chameleons.

I agree with hibiscus. A mulberry tree potted could work well too, really any tree that takes intense light. A lot of indoor plants can be trained into direct light, just have to slowly do it. Any sort of purplish plants or darker plants usually handle heavy light well. Fig tree is another, citrus too... ummm many more I'm probably forgetting.

 

[The Wild One]

I agree with hibiscus. A mulberry tree potted could work well too, really any tree that takes intense light. A lot of indoor plants can be trained into direct light, just have to slowly do it. Any sort of purplish plants or darker plants usually handle heavy light well. Fig tree is another, citrus too... ummm many more I'm probably forgetting.

Is an avocado tree safe?

 

[cyberlocc]

If you want something NOW.

I would recommend passion fruit vine.

This thing grows uncontrollably quickly. To give reference, i noticed on Saturday of last week a small tip was poking out of the screen top of my cage.

That small tip, is now 2 feet long with 4 leaves and 5 of the big long offshoots that it uses to attach to stuff.

This thing grows insanely fast. It also grows pretty much everywhere. Grows in here in AZ, grows in Madagascar, produces fruits if you care and pretty flowers.

I know that its said chams don't like Vines, but my Panther spends alot of time on the passion fruit vines. He has thin branches right next to the vines he likes to use, so he seems to like the passion fruit vines. But they are not like pothos vines, where it just kind of droops they get thick and woody pretty fast, and are fairly stable.

 

[jamest0o0]

Is an avocado tree safe?

According to toxicity no it is not. It is also dangerous for birds so I would be cautious using it with a veiled.

 

[Beman]

So I was going to get hibiscus but the nursery sells them without growth so roots in a pot. This would be great if I could take months for it to grow in.

@jamest0o0 I have already killed 3 indoor plants trying to work them into outdoor plants. So fig tree, and citrus trees would be ok? Would these be ok in pots?

@cyberlocc yes I would love a vine that would take over. So with the passion fruit vine this would be ok with my Veiled plant eating beast?

I am so worried I will kill him by putting the wrong thing in.

Someone else told me Jasmine???? But they had not tried it with a Veiled.

 

[jamest0o0]

So I was going to get hibiscus but the nursery sells them without growth so roots in a pot. This would be great if I could take months for it to grow in.

@jamest0o0 I have already killed 3 indoor plants trying to work them into outdoor plants. So fig tree, and citrus trees would be ok? Would these be ok in pots?

@cyberlocc yes I would love a vine that would take over. So with the passion fruit vine this would be ok with my Veiled plant eating beast?

I am so worried I will kill him by putting the wrong thing in.

Someone else told me Jasmine???? But they had not tried it with a Veiled.

Yup I have a fig in a pot, same with mulberry. I forgot, schefflera usually do really well in full light. They grow like that in Florida like hedges. I put some dracaena, schefflera, hibiscus, and palm from indoors right into bright sun. They lost their leaves and grew back much nicer leaves very fast. Pothos do terrible in full sun, but some seem to handle it better than others depending on the type.

 

[The Wild One]

Pothos do terrible in full sun, but some seem to handle it better than others depending on the type.

My golden pothos are eating the sun up. Like over lapping other plants to get full sun.

 

[Beman]

Yup I have a fig in a pot, same with mulberry. I forgot, schefflera usually do really well in full light. They grow like that in Florida like hedges. I put some dracaena, schefflera, hibiscus, and palm from indoors right into bright sun. They lost their leaves and grew back much nicer leaves very fast. Pothos do terrible in full sun, but some seem to handle it better than others depending on the type.

Ok and they won't kill Beman if he eats them? I killed a pothos and two draceana trying to make them outside plants. I think it was our temperature swings as well as the sun.

 

[PetNcs]

A huge hibiscus, if this one wasn’t around other plants it would totally be Codas free range. It’s about 8 feet tallView attachment 265292

Hibiscus is also toxic

 

[cyberlocc]

If you want something NOW.

I would recommend passion fruit vine.

This thing grows uncontrollably quickly. To give reference, i noticed on Saturday of last week a small tip was poking out of the screen top of my cage.

That small tip, is now 2 feet long with 4 leaves and 5 of the big long offshoots that it uses to attach to stuff.

This thing grows insanely fast. It also grows pretty much everywhere. Grows in here in AZ, grows in Madagascar, produces fruits if you care and pretty flowers.

I know that its said chams don't like Vines, but my Panther spends alot of time on the passion fruit vines. He has thin branches right next to the vines he likes to use, so he seems to like the passion fruit vines. But they are not like pothos vines, where it just kind of droops they get thick and woody pretty fast, and are fairly stable.

So I mean nothing is set in stone.

I have heard that s I me passiflora (not the fruit variety) is supposedly toxic.

Dogs can get a stomach ache eaten the unripe fruits (cyanide like peaches or any other sweet fruits)

I have read that passiflora edilus (the common passionfruit, as its the sweetest, and what I have) is a favorite plant of wild igunanas in florida. People with passion fruit, said it attracts major amounts of them they eat the leaves, the flowers and the fruits.

So I am going to say its safe, from that data.

In humans the fruit and leaves are safe. BUT, they do posses a substance that works as a Pyscotropic, so eating very large amounts does produce a euphoria effect that causes hallucinations like mushrooms. You have to consume alot though. I am not sure if this has effects on reptiles. It might and that might be why the iguanas love them lol?


Be forwarned though. 1 issue I have had with mine in my viv. It seems to be a favorite of sugar ants, and other insects. The new offshoots secrete a sweet nectar and the ants go nuts for it.

 

[PetNcs]

There is one more aspect that we can take into consideration.
again no science rigidius research behind. Just logic and experience:

chameleons can not digest plant matter
Leaves go through their intestine almost untouched,
Just fermented and maybe a bit dehydrated if the animal is notmaly hudrated. If overhydrated (as is the norm niw after the nonsensous white ureates rule has beed adopted), not even dehydrated.

so, possibly their resistance to olant toxins rhat seemingmynis there in place is mainly due to their not digesting the plants? The toxinc come
And go...
Or are reaorbed in auch tiny ammounts that they do not harm...

specullation...

 

[Beman]

So I mean nothing is set in stone.

I have heard that s I me passiflora (not the fruit variety) is supposedly toxic.

Dogs can get a stomach ache eaten the unripe fruits (cyanide like peaches or any other sweet fruits)

I have read that passiflora edilus (the common passionfruit, as its the sweetest, and what I have) is a favorite plant of wild igunanas in florida. People with passion fruit, said it attracts major amounts of them they eat the leaves, the flowers and the fruits.

So I am going to say its safe, from that data.

In humans the fruit and leaves are safe. BUT, they do posses a substance that works as a Pyscotropic, so eating very large amounts does produce a euphoria effect that causes hallucinations like mushrooms. You have to consume alot though. I am not sure if this has effects on reptiles. It might and that might be why the iguanas love them lol?

LOL so Beman may go into an altered state eating them. UGGGG why does he have to be a plant eater. This is why I keep holding back on building him a huge outdoor space. The frustration of needing to fill it out with plants but then the worry that if I pick the wrong ones I will kill him.

 

[cyberlocc]

oh and my wife loves the vine. She thinks its the prettiest thing she has ever seen. I was going to snip that small off shoot. She told me I cannot I said its going to take over the outside of the cage and who house, she said she wants it too.

 

[Beman]

passiflora edilus

So this one would be the one to get if I wanted to try it?

 

[cyberlocc]

LOL so Beman may go into an altered state eating them. UGGGG why does he have to be a plant eater. This is why I keep holding back on building him a huge outdoor space. The frustration of needing to fill it out with plants but then the worry that if I pick the wrong ones I will kill him.

I think you would notice issue long before death.

The bugs in my panthers viv eat the crap out of the passiflora leaves. My cham eats said bugs and seems fine.

So he might have a party, but I dont think he will die.

Them being a major target to igunanas has me thinking you should be fine.

It might outgrow the space though. I was told they only get 20 feet when I bought it. Then later I found that is not true, more like 100ft, the thing doesn't stop growing. So it will take training and pruning.

And yes go with the edulis. Dont worry about a small one, i bought a 10 inch, it was 20ft in 2 months. You can actually watch this thing grow during the day. It grows 2-3 inches a day. Per shoot, and it branches fast.

 

[cyberlocc]

I completely ripped this thing out, to try and get rid of an ant problem back in Feb. I replanted the 12 inch base, when that didn't work.

And this is it now.

And I have pruned the hell out of it. It just never stops growing, and extremely quickly. Its scary how fast it grows.

 

[Beman]

I think you would notice issue long before death.

The bugs in my panthers viv eat the crap out of the passiflora leaves. My cham eats said bugs and seems fine.

So he might have a party, but I dont think he will die.

Them being a major target to igunanas has me thinking you should be fine.

It might outgrow the space though. I was told they only get 20 feet when I bought it. Then later I found that is not true, more like 100ft, the thing doesn't stop growing. So it will take training and pruning.

And yes go with the edulis. Dont worry about a small one, i bought a 10 inch, it was 20ft in 2 months. You can actually watch this thing grow during the day. It grows 2-3 inches a day. Per shoot, and it branches fast.

Ok well this one really seems like it would work like a dream for what I want. I want to build a 6 foot tall with 4 feet of usable space, 2 feet deep, and then 6 feet long.

 

[salty dog]

Everybody keeps recommending scheffelara lol... I was just speaking for everybody... I've tried with blood & sweat on my effort to say it is a shit plant for numerous reasons, everybody at that point turns right around and says the opposite...saying it's a great plant..

 

[Marcoa1988]

So one thing that nags me about the info given on these forums is that you will see people recommend pothos constantly, but then tell you another plant, with the same defense as pothos, is toxic. Would like to hear from anyone that knows a bit about plant toxins. I admit, I'm no expert on the subject, just a simple understanding. So pothos basically have oxalate crystals which are like tiny pieces of glass. My thinking is that chams digest so little of the leaf that they don't actually get much of this to irritate them. Oddly, cats are bothered by it and I do not think they digest much, if any, vegetation either. Very big leap between cat and chameleon, but just a thought. High oxalates are a reason people say to stay away from spinach as a gutload, but I guess in that sense, they may get more of them due to the insect processing the plant material. Oxalates can also interfere with calcium absorption, create gout like crystals, and kidney issues.

So I'd just like to discuss this if anyone's interested or if I'm missing something here... maybe we should stop saying 'this plant is toxic, this plant isn't' and start saying this particular toxin is dangerous to chams or this one isn't. It's not hard to Google what toxin a plant actually has.

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here. I've done this, and so many others have, but now it drives me crazy because I feel it is one of those things we're all just repeating without understanding.

@PetNcs says veileds should live 12 years... how are most veileds that are kept otherwise healthy dying before then? It's a longshot, but could longterm high oxalate plant leaves be slowly hurting their overall health as well as obesity and overfeeding?

So i live in florida. Not sure if you have heard of all of the chameleon ranching going on in south florida. So anyways they live freely out there just like the iguanas. I have looked for information as to what plants these guys predominantly eat in that area as far as plants go. I wasnt able to find anything but they are thriving down there and south florida is loaded with pothos and other plants that are highly toxic. But same goes for the shefalera plant i know alot of people talk about having them in their enclosures but they say they are midly toxic and if your cham eats alot of the plants in the enclosure you should take that one out.

 

[Marcoa1988]

Ok well this one really seems like it would work like a dream for what I want. I want to build a 6 foot tall with 4 feet of usable space, 2 feet deep, and then 6 feet long.

Thats def huge. Mine is 6ft tall 3ft wide