I got him close to a year ago, and he's always been healthy, never hesitated to eat or anything. He's eaten Superworms, Mealworms, Crickets, Fruitflies, anything he could get ahold of pretty much. But around the holidays he started to have some problems with his eyes. It started with his left eye, he would always keep it closed, and I could hardly get him to eat as he couldn't see well enough to hunt properly. It looked like something back and crusty was sealing his eye. Then the same thing happened to the other eye, and I would have to hand feed him. I brought him to the dealer I got him from as they said they would rehabilitate him, but so far he's looking worse. They say whenever they look in his eyes are open and he looks fine, but now I see that both eyes still won't open. I had tried steam therapy and drops as they suggested before I brought him there, but nothing helped. Now the left eye looks worse than the right, the lid is swollen. He still has good eye movement, but he won't open them. I know a trip to a reptile specialist will be happening soon, but I wanted to have an idea as to what was wrong with my little reptilian buddy first, and anything I might be able to do to help him out. If it is important, I kept him in a screened aluminum cage that was 36in. high, 18in. wide, and 18in. long. I had the UV and flourescant heatlights hooked up, the dripper was filled a few times daily, I treated the water with reptisafe to get rid of harmful chlorine and such. He had lots of vines and things to climb on, too. He always seemed so healthy, really strong with a little attitude. I observed him drinking daily [ I can't sleep if I know he hasn't drank anything ] but now I don't know what could be happening. I tried googling it, but can't find anyone with similar problems.. I'm really worried, has anyone had this happen before, what is it? What will the vet tell me to do, prescribe him?
Problem With Fischer's?
- Thread starter Jayda
- Start date
Julirs
New Member
Please answer the following-I am particularly interested in the lighting that you have on him.
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?
Ok, the cage is screen, 36 x 18 x 18. I mist usually three times daily, I have a Fluker's dripper that I direct over leaves. I always made sure he drank at least once a day.
The crickets I purchased were pre-gutloaded, so I never bothered with it. I dusted calcium at least once or twice a week, I didn't want to over or under do it.
He was parasite free when purchased, his droppings looked normal. I don't really know how to describe them, it's been weeks since I've had him at home with me, so my memory doesn't serve me well. There would be the longer, darkly hued pellet looking matter, and the whitish sac attached to it. I never noticed a change in his droppings during the time I had him.
The lighting I couldn't tell you the exact parameters, it was the recommended lighting for the Chameleon at the Reptile store, if I had kept the box I would recall better x_x.
I live in Louisiana, it's pretty humid, and the temperature never really drops. I have a humidity and temperature gauge. 50-60% was what I kept the humidity at, I generally misted two to three times daily. The temperature would stay around the mid seventies and gradually rose closer to the basking light. I had it set to where he could heat up or cool down when he wanted to, he wasn't subject to one temperature. It dropped at night, naturally of course though, the house is kept in the lower seventies as I didn't want to freeze him out.
I did not keep live plants, as there aren't many readily available, and the ones that are rather small.
His cage was placed away from the room's vent and window, nestled into a corner.
The crickets I purchased were pre-gutloaded, so I never bothered with it. I dusted calcium at least once or twice a week, I didn't want to over or under do it.
He was parasite free when purchased, his droppings looked normal. I don't really know how to describe them, it's been weeks since I've had him at home with me, so my memory doesn't serve me well. There would be the longer, darkly hued pellet looking matter, and the whitish sac attached to it. I never noticed a change in his droppings during the time I had him.
The lighting I couldn't tell you the exact parameters, it was the recommended lighting for the Chameleon at the Reptile store, if I had kept the box I would recall better x_x.
I live in Louisiana, it's pretty humid, and the temperature never really drops. I have a humidity and temperature gauge. 50-60% was what I kept the humidity at, I generally misted two to three times daily. The temperature would stay around the mid seventies and gradually rose closer to the basking light. I had it set to where he could heat up or cool down when he wanted to, he wasn't subject to one temperature. It dropped at night, naturally of course though, the house is kept in the lower seventies as I didn't want to freeze him out.
I did not keep live plants, as there aren't many readily available, and the ones that are rather small.
His cage was placed away from the room's vent and window, nestled into a corner.
Julirs
New Member
If you have had the lights over a year, they would not be the culprit here, but be aware UVB lights need to be changed out every 6-9 months. I do think a Vet visit is in order. He either has something wrond with his eyes, or his supplements are off enough to be causing an issue with his eyes.
Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy Jayda,
In this case, where there is actually discharge in and around the eye, it is most likely an infection. Your exotic vet will prescribe an antibiotic. It is often in the form of eye drops - ophthamolic Gentamicin. I'd suggest visiting the vet ASAP. Scarring of the cornea can happen if not treated right away. Coincidentally, I just treated and returned a chameleon to a friend that had an eye infection - too long. When it arrived, there was already visible scarring on the cornea
. The infection cleared-up in about a week. (I took these photos earlier today!)
Right Eye - Possible Corneal Scarring
Left Eye - Corneal Scarring
Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy,Hey. Are you the one from yahoo? If so thanks for listening to me, you will get 100% better answers
Yeah that was probably me
. I figured it would be a good idea to answer some of the questions while steering chameleon keepers over to this site for safe keeping (double entendre?) . Glad that you made it over the fench .
skully23
New Member
Howdy,
Yeah that was probably me
I believe I was talking to Jayda.
Yep, I'm the one from Yahoo lol Much more information here - I don't see how I missed it!
Well, Monday I made an appointment with LSU [the closest area to me without going to New Orleans], and brought him in. Luckily on the way, he pooped so they had a fresh sample. We were the only ones there with a reptile, so it was a five minute wait before we were called back. The Tech asked many detailed questions to us before the doctor arrived. They brought him to the back naturally, so we were waiting for a good hour before they returned with the news. He had a Vitamin A deficiancy, he informed us. It appears I made a fatal mistake while owning him - I purchased from the local store pre gut loaded critters. I really should have done it myself rather than taking someone's word for it - I understand that now. I'm just glad that we caught it in time.
Right now they are keeping him for treatment, so in a week or so he'll be coming back home to continue it. They have him on prescription eye drops, they're flushing his eyes twice daily, feeding and keeping him hydrated. The bill was a lot less than I was expecting, but it wouldn't have bothered me if it was higher - so long as he comes out better in the end. All together it was a charge of 150 USD - the daily treatments and exams were 50, the walk in rate was 50, and boarding is fifty. They said it might come out to less, it just depends on how much he requires - but I'd be happy either was so long as he comes back healthy and happy.
I would really like to thank all of you for the information and advice, it was all really helpful, I will be posting every few days or so, or when something changes as I'm updated every day once or twice by the Vet. I'm crossing my fingers, keep my lil' guy in your thoughts/prayers please
They are very hopeful that he will make a full recovery, and according to them his chances are good for it, so I'm hoping for a good recovery, no matter how long it takes, or how much work I have to put into it when he comes back home.
Well, Monday I made an appointment with LSU [the closest area to me without going to New Orleans], and brought him in. Luckily on the way, he pooped so they had a fresh sample. We were the only ones there with a reptile, so it was a five minute wait before we were called back. The Tech asked many detailed questions to us before the doctor arrived. They brought him to the back naturally, so we were waiting for a good hour before they returned with the news. He had a Vitamin A deficiancy, he informed us. It appears I made a fatal mistake while owning him - I purchased from the local store pre gut loaded critters. I really should have done it myself rather than taking someone's word for it - I understand that now. I'm just glad that we caught it in time.
Right now they are keeping him for treatment, so in a week or so he'll be coming back home to continue it. They have him on prescription eye drops, they're flushing his eyes twice daily, feeding and keeping him hydrated. The bill was a lot less than I was expecting, but it wouldn't have bothered me if it was higher - so long as he comes out better in the end. All together it was a charge of 150 USD - the daily treatments and exams were 50, the walk in rate was 50, and boarding is fifty. They said it might come out to less, it just depends on how much he requires - but I'd be happy either was so long as he comes back healthy and happy.
I would really like to thank all of you for the information and advice, it was all really helpful, I will be posting every few days or so, or when something changes as I'm updated every day once or twice by the Vet. I'm crossing my fingers, keep my lil' guy in your thoughts/prayers please
They are very hopeful that he will make a full recovery, and according to them his chances are good for it, so I'm hoping for a good recovery, no matter how long it takes, or how much work I have to put into it when he comes back home.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
How did they determine Vit A deficiency? Would that result in the discharge you saw? The reason I ask is that montanes like fischeri are very sensitive to vitamin supplementation and Vit A can be overdosed. Did you find out what the "pre-gutloaded" crix were being fed? That might tell you more about possible deficiencies as well. If your UV fluorescent is a year old replace it. That will help too.
I'm not sure of what tests he ran, but they did tests on his eyes and all, and the gunk in them. However - I came to find out the bloody crickets were eating dog food, so it was a bummer for me, I really would've hoped they wouldn't lie to customers like that, but I should have pushed for more information, I definately will from now on.
This is the reason I'm going to be keeping my own feeders and gut loading them myself, any tips on it? I've been reading some articles and such online, but I want to make sure I've got everything straight, don't want any oopsies! As well as loaiding the crickets and mealworms, what other feeders would be easy to gutload? I've heard roaches are good - but I honestly have a phobia of them since an unfortunate day when I was five... I don't want to overdo it, and I also don't want to overdo it. The Veterinarian said I could sprinkle spirulina on the cricket/bug's feed to make sure they pass on the vitamins etc. I know you could simply sprinkle to bugs with suplements and vitamins before feeding, but I'd like him to live as naturally as possible. Whatever's best for him really.
And thanks, CNorton, it's really good to hear that. Cure-alls are just a waste of money for the most part, I've seen some crazy things happen when pet owners trust everything to the cure all Never pretty. Being all down and pessimistic about this won't help anything, and it sure won't help him a bit. The best thing I can do right now is do more research to be sure nothing like this happens again.
Oh, Carlton - I changed both bulbs in December, they were about eight months old as I'd gotten them in late April before I got him. I try to keep track of when I buy those kind of things, you never know when it might be helpful. The vet asked me the same question to, but that's to be expected - it's good you guys know what to ask, what I was asked on this thread I was asked by the Vet and the Tech.
This is the reason I'm going to be keeping my own feeders and gut loading them myself, any tips on it? I've been reading some articles and such online, but I want to make sure I've got everything straight, don't want any oopsies! As well as loaiding the crickets and mealworms, what other feeders would be easy to gutload? I've heard roaches are good - but I honestly have a phobia of them since an unfortunate day when I was five... I don't want to overdo it, and I also don't want to overdo it. The Veterinarian said I could sprinkle spirulina on the cricket/bug's feed to make sure they pass on the vitamins etc. I know you could simply sprinkle to bugs with suplements and vitamins before feeding, but I'd like him to live as naturally as possible. Whatever's best for him really.
And thanks, CNorton, it's really good to hear that. Cure-alls are just a waste of money for the most part, I've seen some crazy things happen when pet owners trust everything to the cure all
Never pretty. Being all down and pessimistic about this won't help anything, and it sure won't help him a bit. The best thing I can do right now is do more research to be sure nothing like this happens again.Oh, Carlton - I changed both bulbs in December, they were about eight months old as I'd gotten them in late April before I got him. I try to keep track of when I buy those kind of things, you never know when it might be helpful. The vet asked me the same question to, but that's to be expected - it's good you guys know what to ask, what I was asked on this thread I was asked by the Vet and the Tech.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Interesting.
I would think that if the crickets were being fed dog food, hypervitaminosis would be the problem ... not the other way around.
Did I miss where you told us your UVB lamp was a linear tube, not a compact fluorescent bulb?
-Brad
I would think that if the crickets were being fed dog food, hypervitaminosis would be the problem ... not the other way around.
Did I miss where you told us your UVB lamp was a linear tube, not a compact fluorescent bulb?
-Brad
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
The pet store may not be "lying" to customers as they may think feeding crix dog food is sufficient nutrition. Actually, most pet shops don't feed their crix anything or an occasional potato so they are better than most.
The roach you most likely had a bad experience with is very different than the B. dubia roaches many of us use as feeders. Probably a German cockroach. Dubia roaches don't really climb, don't fly, are fairly slow moving, won't chew on your cham at night, and can't readily establish in your house (they are tropical...so if you live far enough north they just don't survive loose very long). Read more about them...you may be surprised. Also check out silkworms, waxworms (treats), and hornworms.
There are lots of gutload recipes out there. A good one can be found on the ADCHAM website. I like to feed my insects a mix of dark leafy greens (no iceberg lettuce), chunks of fruit (leftovers from salads etc), fortified cereal grains such as Total, bee pollen, and spirulina. There's also a Cricket Crack gutload from Chad a forum member that many folks like.
I think I missed the part where I was asked? But it is a linear tube, not the bulb I really don't know how often the crix were fed, but the vet did say deficiancy, so probably not too often if I were to take a guess at it, I suppose.
I'm not too familiar with the cockroach species - but I know this bugger was huge, and he flew in my face. Ever since then they've scared the daylights out of me! So the Dubia don't fly? That's a relief, not climbing too much is also one, sounds even better if they don't chew on him either! Sadly I live way down south, in Louisiana. I don't doubt they'd survive the summer months, but with the weather as chilly as it is now, they'd probably not be too happy. The only real problem I'd have is handling the buggers - they're just so strange - the shells are what gets me, too smooth or something like that. I've never seen a Dubia that I am aware of, so I wouldn't really know if it were anything like the Germans and such. All I know is the monstrous ones love it here because of the Oak trees. I thought I even read somewhere of feeding Madagascan hissers to Chams, that would horrify me there, once at the Audobon, we were 'allowed' to handle one, once it moved one of it's spiky legs onto my hand I freaked.. and that was the end of that, and possibly of that particular speciman. Is feeding/handling something you just get used to? I'll definately look into the silkworms and others ya'll have mentioned, and the gutload recipes and such, I'm going to buy some crickets, and other feeders before I bring my little guy back home, and get them nice and healthy.
I was called earlier this morning by the vets, while flushing the left eye some debris was removed, so that is good news. He appears to be seeing from his right eye now, and responds when anything moves within his seeing range. He is slowly starting to move about the cage, and occasionally he will climb on the lowest branches. They are going to offer him so nice, loaded crix tomorrow morning, and will call me afterwards to fill me in. I hope he eats them, forcefeeding must be a pain for them, much more so for him. He always was an aggressive little guy, he thought he was the biggest, toughest critter out there. Hopefully his recovery won't be too long, they seem to believe that it will be shorter than they had estimated previously, but either way as long as he comes home happy and healthy ;3
I hope they weren't lying, it was a manager that told me that, and I've always found them to be quite knowledgeable in the past... But they may have thought it was ok fodder, I don't want to think they would do that. I shouldn't have just gone along with it though, I could really kick myself thinking back on it. But this has turned out to be a learning experience - and now I know what I need to do, and how not to let it happen again. Always a plus there
I've seen alot of sites out there that sell feeders, and members on the classifieds - any preferences or recommendations?
I really don't know how often the crix were fed, but the vet did say deficiancy, so probably not too often if I were to take a guess at it, I suppose. I'm not too familiar with the cockroach species - but I know this bugger was huge, and he flew in my face. Ever since then they've scared the daylights out of me! So the Dubia don't fly? That's a relief, not climbing too much is also one, sounds even better if they don't chew on him either! Sadly I live way down south, in Louisiana. I don't doubt they'd survive the summer months, but with the weather as chilly as it is now, they'd probably not be too happy. The only real problem I'd have is handling the buggers - they're just so strange - the shells are what gets me, too smooth or something like that. I've never seen a Dubia that I am aware of, so I wouldn't really know if it were anything like the Germans and such. All I know is the monstrous ones love it here because of the Oak trees. I thought I even read somewhere of feeding Madagascan hissers to Chams, that would horrify me there, once at the Audobon, we were 'allowed' to handle one, once it moved one of it's spiky legs onto my hand I freaked.. and that was the end of that, and possibly of that particular speciman. Is feeding/handling something you just get used to? I'll definately look into the silkworms and others ya'll have mentioned, and the gutload recipes and such, I'm going to buy some crickets, and other feeders before I bring my little guy back home, and get them nice and healthy.
I was called earlier this morning by the vets, while flushing the left eye some debris was removed, so that is good news. He appears to be seeing from his right eye now, and responds when anything moves within his seeing range. He is slowly starting to move about the cage, and occasionally he will climb on the lowest branches. They are going to offer him so nice, loaded crix tomorrow morning, and will call me afterwards to fill me in. I hope he eats them, forcefeeding must be a pain for them, much more so for him. He always was an aggressive little guy, he thought he was the biggest, toughest critter out there. Hopefully his recovery won't be too long, they seem to believe that it will be shorter than they had estimated previously, but either way as long as he comes home happy and healthy ;3
I hope they weren't lying, it was a manager that told me that, and I've always found them to be quite knowledgeable in the past... But they may have thought it was ok fodder, I don't want to think they would do that. I shouldn't have just gone along with it though, I could really kick myself thinking back on it. But this has turned out to be a learning experience - and now I know what I need to do, and how not to let it happen again. Always a plus there
I've seen alot of sites out there that sell feeders, and members on the classifieds - any preferences or recommendations?
Sounds like a good plan! They only carry main-stream feeders though, so I'll have to order the good stuff somewhere else. I read somewhere that you were supposed to gutload them about four hours before feeding, so they don't lose everything... I'm thinking of getting Dubias, I'll have to get my signifigant other to do their feeding and such, as I would probably have a heart attack it one touched me or something. I hope I'd be able to get over that though, it'd make things easier on us You guys have been so helpful - there's a lot of great advice here, it's hard to find such sound advice anywhere else, you usually just get mixed answers, but that's not the case here thankfully. It's like opening a treasure chest to me, there's so much good information and advice here.
They had scheduled an eye scope on him this afternoon, so I should have results tomorrow. We're planning a visit sometime this weekend or early next week, so I'll hopefully get some pictures if I remember the camera.
You guys have been so helpful - there's a lot of great advice here, it's hard to find such sound advice anywhere else, you usually just get mixed answers, but that's not the case here thankfully. It's like opening a treasure chest to me, there's so much good information and advice here.They had scheduled an eye scope on him this afternoon, so I should have results tomorrow. We're planning a visit sometime this weekend or early next week, so I'll hopefully get some pictures if I remember the camera.
