Purpose of the casque.

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MissSkittles said:
The way that I see it is that little in biology can be an exact science. Speaking in terms of human biology, we have been studying our own bodies and biology for eons, yet there is still so much that we don’t know, are learning and what was once thought to be true is proven false.
As chameleons have been studied for far less time and with much less interest, we have no idea what we don’t know yet. We have learned how to keep them alive and simulate to the best of our abilities and knowledge a suitable domestic habitat. However, we will always be learning more the longer that we keep them and the more interest there is in studying them.
Who can truly say with 100% certainty what the purpose of the casque is? We can theorize that it is a display for mating purposes, which has some merit. We can also theorize that it does hold fat and possibly even fluid stores to help sustain them through the dry season. Both theories make sense. Does it channel water to the mouth - maybe. That would be an additional benefit to the animal and may have influenced the evolution of the shape.
Do I have any proof to back any of these theories up? Nope. Just using my basic knowledge of misc stuff and putting it together in my brain in a way that makes sense to me.
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Sure, and you miss published data about the evolution and about character displacement in chameleons. So, you theoretize with nit a full set of info a ailable.
 
Beman said:
I totally agree with you. I can see how things have changed just with the UVB lighting we use now compared to 10 years ago. I am totally open to new information.

I am the type that always tries to learn more and more. I just prefer details... Not just a blanket statement of this is what it is period without any additional information. I want the details. In that video.... It sure looks like fat to me if what he points out to in the abdomen is fat then it looks to be the exact same in the casque. I am not a Veterinarian. I do not have a background in science but when I see someone who does in a video doing and autopsy saying it is fat. I trust that is in fact what it is.

The other part of this that is very frustrating to me personally. Is supposedly Beman is overweight. I get told these things and base my care of my chameleons on them. Beman on a diet to lose weight... At 15 inches total length and 150 grams I am told that he is too fat. That he should be 125-130 max to be healthy for his size. I am told that his casque and cheeks are holding excess weight. And Petr is the one that put this info out there and has also said it to me recently.

So if he is not fat then I am depriving him and he is loosing weight... all because this is what I was told to do and I listened because I respected the source of the information.
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To ne inese does not explicirely mean all tje extra weigjt is fat!
It does fit neither chameleons no humams.
The fat body is a fat body and rhe casque e
Wears in heavy obesity cases NOT fat but Edematically swolled muscle. Imwas wrong in commenting the video. I confess it. I provide nee, better information now.
I am open tomchanges and improving our kniwledge eeven and especially if it means to acknowledge I was wrong. And I am not sorry for that. To be wrong kns a part of progress. To insist on bullshit is a bad approach.
 
Beman said:
Well I’m at a point where I am so passed being confused... I’m told and have read in multiple forums about fat being stored in the casque... told by Petr that Beman is fat based on his casque/cheeks.

I’m getting tired of being told something with no further input or explanation. Just his word... So now it is they are not storing fat in the casque????Then why has he even said that it was in videos..

In this video Petr himself does an autopsy on a Veiled that is fat. It shows at 24 seconds in him showing the fat in the casque.....
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I reexamined rhe cadaver
The firmation in the casque is not faz but edematically swillen muscle. All the rest info is correct
 
ferretinmyshoes said:
As someone who has in fact dissected and operated on veiled chameleon casques I have personally seen fat between and around the muscles. Next time I’ll take a picture for the purpose of this argument... This may not be the case in a normal, lean weight chameleon. However especially in the obese ones this is present. So to blanket state that it is not possible for fat to be present because it may not be there in a lean chameleon is not correct. I think that is where the miscommunication lies.

And I agree things can serve more than one purpose even if it wasn’t their intended evolutionary purpose. Just like how elk and deer can scratch themselves with their antlers when they have an itch. That is obviously not their sole purpose or what they were evolved for, but it still can serve an alternate purpose.
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I would stopprokising it again and again and showing it once you have the proof. It does not help the discussion
Necause you did nit examime it
Somtje only thing ai can believe younis that you saw some steucgures thatbremianed you on fat but thisnis not a fact, itnis an assumption. Same what I
Have made myslef and lster corrected based on further investigations
 
jamest0o0 said:
Chameleons are old world lizards, but just how 'old world' are they?... Could they be controlled by aliens dating back to ancient sumeria? new evidence suggests... they might be. But how did they get here? And what is their purpose? benevolent protectors of earth... or something more sinister....
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Well “old world” is a soecial term used tomrefer to Eurasia and Africa. To separate these territories fro the “new world” that was supposed to be the Americas.

The term “Old world chameleons” isnused just Seotate the Members of the family chamaeleonidae from the s.c. “Ne worl chameleons”
Whichnis a trivial a slratjer confuusing amd srchaic term fir some amoles such as representatives of the genera Anolis and Chameleolis.

Whithout that xavkgroumd knowledge ainunderstand yoj sre comfused with what old worl means in fsct
 
PetNcs said:
I would stopprokising it again and again and showing it once you have the proof. It does not help the discussion
Necause you did nit examime it
Somtje only thing ai can believe younis that you saw some steucgures thatbremianed you on fat but thisnis not a fact, itnis an assumption. Same what I
Have made myslef and lster corrected based on further investigations
Click to expand...

can you show your proof that it is not fat? So far I have not seen any and we are just supposed to take your word for it.
 
382DF314-8B59-4AB0-9308-C9A4DCFEEC8C.jpeg
 
PetNcs said:
I dissected few dozens of chameleons since and made histological investigations
Click to expand...
PetNcs said:
I reexamined rhe cadaver
The firmation in the casque is not faz but edematically swillen muscle. All the rest info is correct
Click to expand...

So wait you dissected a few dozen chams since then and made the discovery or you reexamined the same chameleon and made the discovery? If it was the same Cham then I’m wondering why you did not make and update video. I’m assuming it wouldn’t of been to long after the video was made that you would of reexamined it.
 
Lennoncham said:
So wait you dissected a few dozen chams since then and made the discovery or you reexamined the same chameleon and made the discovery? If it was the same Cham then I’m wondering why you did not make and update video. I’m assuming it wouldn’t of been to long after the video was made that you would of reexamined it.
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PetNcs said:
It would be bettwr if you firt read more about the theories about plant matter consumptio in the yemen chameleon nefore you raise theories. I remember Kinyonga made here a good overview not long ago.

IMHO your theory is out of discussion as the purpose of the plant eating is not nutrition.
Chameleons can not digest plant matter, the are not her herbivores. They do. Ot focus on young shots. The females do it same as males, no dofference.
Moreover, your evidence of females eating more plamt matter than males is heavily biased by captivity and a solutely insufficient number of samples.
And this is rhe beginning: erong assumption based on imcodental unnstural captive observation,
Together with no reading about rhe matter leads to an idea thet does nit qualify to be a theory and is out of question to be discussed. iMHO
Click to expand...
Isn’t funny how he’s the only one allowed to make up “theories“ but if anyone else does “off with there heads. I don’t like the idea of gate keeping chameleon knowledge.
 
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