Quad eggs took less than 25 days to hatch!!!

[pamnsam94]

I used to hear that turning them would drown the babies, but now I'm hearing a lot about how it crushes the embryo. If it doesn't drown them, then it would make sense that closer to the end of development, the baby is too big to be crushed by the yolk.

I would love to know how either of those two explanations might happen. I've heard it said "they will drown". What does that mean exactly? Oxygen supply is cut off?? Oxygen diffuses across the egg shell, so I never understood that explanation. "It crushes the embryo"?? I don't understand that explanation either. As you know, bird eggs must be turned. Why wouldn't the bird embryo be crushed? I'm sure one of these explanations, or another one, would make sense if we all were to get a refresher course (I got my biology degree over 20 years ago ) on verterbrate egg anatomy and physiology, although I don't recall the question, "Why must bird eggs be turned but not reptile eggs?", ever being addressed.

Perry

 

[pssh]

I have read that bird eggs need to be turned because the embryo will get stuck to the shell and wont develop properly. If I am remembering correctly, the veins in reptile eggs will tear if the air sack at the top of the egg moves too much? Maybe someone will confirm that or correct me if I am wrong.

 

[pamnsam94]

I have read that bird eggs need to be turned because the embryo will get stuck to the shell and wont develop properly. If I am remembering correctly, the veins in reptile eggs will tear if the air sack at the top of the egg moves too much? Maybe someone will confirm that or correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks for the info. I found a few explanations on the internet, but I'd like to see pictures. This link: http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511585739&cid=CBO9780511585739A026 gives a chapter extract of the differences between reptile and bird eggs and why most bird eggs need to be turned while reptile eggs shouldn't be. Apparently, the explanation usually given "if examined further is not so clear cut". I take this to mean that we simply do not have all the answers yet.

Perry

 

[Morph514]

What temperatures were they at? When was the male put with the female? This is crazy!!! Congrats by the way

 

[fluxlizard]

Hey guys
looks like this thread was brought back from the dead.

Couple of thoughts for the puzzled who brought it back-

Firstly- quad eggs begin development in the mother. Would not be out of the range of possibilities for those eggs to have developed quite a ways along before being laid and still hatch. Surprising though.

Secondly- As a somewhat clumsy individual who has accidentally dropped or knocked over many many egg containers in the past couple decades- the egg turning thing is not really so true with most lizard eggs. I've had to reset many eggs and I usually don't mark them so I don't really know which side is up. Although it always has caused near heart attacks and stress for me- it has never seemed to bother the eggs...


Also from removing eggs over the years and candling- some species have a decent embryonic disc going on at the time of laying. The mother does not always lay these disc side up. The eggs still hatch. So even if you are setting them like they are laid, the disc often will not be on top...

 

[DGray]

ovo-vivo

I found this thread fascinating at the time, and it still has me asking some questions.

Has the female "Beta" had other clutches since? We're the gestations and incubations typical? Have any of her female offspring been bred? Anything abnormal in them?

Stepping back from this specific case, and trying to think like an evolutionary biologist, reptiles must have had to evolve vivipary to survive high-altitude and high-latitude habitats many times. How does this happen? It seems to me that a moderately high-elevation species like quads would be given an advantage if they were able to "choose" whether to retain the eggs to near-term in cold or difficult environments, or conversely, deposit them early in good conditions, so as to breed more often.

If I recall correctly, there are some reptiles wherein the same species lays eggs at low elevation and bears live at high elevation. Could it be that this case might show that quads are on this sort of evolutionary trend?

I'm just musing here. Someone smarter and more well-versed in the current understanding of evolution will probably be able to come along and dispell my erroneous notions, and I would welcome it. The case of Beta really intrigues me, and I hope PamnSam (Perry) has more interesting news on their quadricornis.

 

[pamnsam94]

I found this thread fascinating at the time, and it still has me asking some questions.

Has the female "Beta" had other clutches since? We're the gestations and incubations typical? Have any of her female offspring been bred? Anything abnormal in them?

Stepping back from this specific case, and trying to think like an evolutionary biologist, reptiles must have had to evolve vivipary to survive high-altitude and high-latitude habitats many times. How does this happen? It seems to me that a moderately high-elevation species like quads would be given an advantage if they were able to "choose" whether to retain the eggs to near-term in cold or difficult environments, or conversely, deposit them early in good conditions, so as to breed more often.

If I recall correctly, there are some reptiles wherein the same species lays eggs at low elevation and bears live at high elevation. Could it be that this case might show that quads are on this sort of evolutionary trend?

I'm just musing here. Someone smarter and more well-versed in the current understanding of evolution will probably be able to come along and dispell my erroneous notions, and I would welcome it. The case of Beta really intrigues me, and I hope PamnSam (Perry) has more interesting news on their quadricornis.

Unfortunately, no more interesting news here. She did lay more clutches, but they had normal incubation times (around 5 months). None of her female offspring have bred yet. You mentioned that in some species of reptiles, individuals lay eggs at low elevation and have live birth a high elevations. Please share which one(s) are capable of this.

Perry

 

[DGray]

I thought one reptile that did that was a Lacerta; it was, but now it is known as Zootoca vivipara.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viviparous_lizard

In this case it is egg-laying in the South and live-bearing in the North.

Thanks for updating us on this.

 

[pamnsam94]

Hey guys
looks like this thread was brought back from the dead.

Couple of thoughts for the puzzled who brought it back-

Firstly- quad eggs begin development in the mother. Would not be out of the range of possibilities for those eggs to have developed quite a ways along before being laid and still hatch. Surprising though.

Secondly- As a somewhat clumsy individual who has accidentally dropped or knocked over many many egg containers in the past couple decades- the egg turning thing is not really so true with most lizard eggs. I've had to reset many eggs and I usually don't mark them so I don't really know which side is up. Although it always has caused near heart attacks and stress for me- it has never seemed to bother the eggs...


Also from removing eggs over the years and candling- some species have a decent embryonic disc going on at the time of laying. The mother does not always lay these disc side up. The eggs still hatch. So even if you are setting them like they are laid, the disc often will not be on top...

I've wondered whether turning the eggs is mainly bad just during a small or wide window of development. Many keepers have experience of their eggs being turned at the beginning without causing any problems. I also assume that the eggs might be fine if turned near the end of their incubation period (how close to the time before hatching I don't know). During what month of development were your eggs knocked over and with what species?

 

[fluxlizard]

During what month of development were your eggs knocked over and with what species?

Geez I've done it several times at least over the years. Can't recall all the species- bearded dragons for sure, some chameleons or other for sure. I remember veileds for certain.

Probably about all stages of development at least for bearded dragons. From a few weeks in up to a couple weeks from hatching...