Reddit Wizard figures out chameleon drinking glass technique?

[ChameSecret]

So, first: I am not advocating this. At all. I think it's quite unnatural and, well, that a couple bucks retained from a couple paychecks would buy the automatic mister system this clearly experienced handler and their chams would need.

... but this wizard on reddit has figured out how to get multiple chams drinking standing water from a glass: https://www.reddit.com/r/Chameleons..._picture_of_youre_drinking/db6h1bc/?context=3

Knowing what I know of this community from the past couple years of lurking (with a light, almost imperceptible dusting of posting), I know what reaction I think this will get. I think the more interesting question is: *how does this trigger drinking behavior????* Is it the combination of a clear, well-lit glass and easy access branches? How has this wizard managed to consistently continue doing this successfully since 2013 when I think many of us have read the posts where leaving out standing water SO OFTEN fails? Are we all just doing it wrong?

Maybe this is totally normal and no one but me bought a RainDome before they went under and all your chams are drinking out of the finest glass goblets as you chuckle. This is completely new to me. Thoughts?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I think, of the chameleon drinks and the water is kept clean, any means that gets chameleons better hydrated is great. I will add that the gentlemen sounds knowledgeable, but his enclosure are questionable sparse and, in my eyes, very sad, restricted, dimly lit, prisons. That said, he may very well keep CBB chameleons perfectly well that way, but doing so for especially a Wild Caught is not affording the chameleon the best life.

 

[Andee]

In my opinion it is not a natural physical action for chameleons to drink from standing water unless in my opinion they are desperately thirsty. Chameleons naturally drink from moving water, why change something that is a natural instinct for them? When it is obviously just us trying to find convenience and cutting corners.

 

[ChameSecret]

Yes, of course, drinking water is good, and, sure, he's not perfect, nor am I endorsing anything about him, and I already stated that I'm not advocating this. The most interesting part of this is hhhhooooowwww has this wwwiiizzzaaarrdd managed this?

he may very well keep CBB chameleons perfectly well that way, but doing so for especially a Wild Caught is not affording the chameleon the best life.

This is a great point. A wild-caught chameleon would have been accustomed to drinking as it is done in the wild and thus I agree that it would be much harder to re-train/force a wild chameleon to acquire this drinking glass behavior without death via dehydration.

Chameleons naturally drink from moving water, why change something that is a natural instinct for them? When it is obviously just us trying to find convenience and cutting corners.

Definitely. But somehow, against our better judgement and experience, this San Diegan has been managing it since 2013.

My best working hypothesis is that light refracts from the glass in a similar way as it happens in water droplets and this is the signal that triggers the drinking behavior. Anyone have any other theories?

 

[Andee]

I would be more worried about them shooting at it sometimes and injuring their tongue. I don't know if I believe his claims of having done it that long, and if he has he has most likely had some possibly fatal consequences due to chameleons who do not take to it well. Hell some chams choose not to drink from drippers. Does he mist at all? Do you know? In my opinion he has no right training a reptile to do this because it's not even a trick or any thing, it's him being a lazy jerk. I don't care much how he did it. Chameleons are extremely intelligent, the problem is their intelligence is more like a cats... You have to train then in ways they will accept and not view as you forcing them to. I know of ways it could very easy to be train chameleons however I don't . If I want something to train I work with my dog, none of my exotics are trained other than my birds just for safe handling. I don't view exotics as something to train ... They are not domesticated and so not be treated as such.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

It's also important to mention that even if a chameleon drinks eagerly from a glass of water, it doesn't replace misting for eye and respiratory healthy.

As for how is he getting them to do it, I believe chameleons will drink from water pooled in leaves and foliage, in nature and I do agree that the light traveling through and reflecting from the water makes it obvious that there is water to be had. The light reflections will make the water appear not to be still.

 

[ChameSecret]

You have to train then in ways they will accept and not view as you forcing them to. I know of ways it could very easy to be train chameleons however I don't . If I want something to train I work with my dog, none of my exotics are trained other than my birds just for safe handling. I don't view exotics as something to train ... They are not domesticated and so not be treated as such.

This is not the way I meant "re-train"; as you would a German Shepherd to roll over for amusement. I'm talking about the learning and behavioral modification process that a wild-caught chameleon would have to go through to adapt to this terrible situation in order to survive. My interest is not in torturing chameleons or training them to do tricks. This is an academic interest. This dumb example can help us understand the mechanism that triggers drinking in chameleons so we can all be better keepers.

I don't care much how he did it.

OK, well there are plenty of other threads out there If you're not interested in trying to understand the stimuli that trigger the drinking response in this unorthodox example (that I have already summarily dismissed in each post as BAD AS HELL and am doing so again right now), then post somewhere else. This is what I wanna talk about.

As for how is he getting them to do it, I believe chameleons will drink from water pooled in leaves and foliage, in nature and I do agree that the light traveling through and reflecting from the water makes it obvious that there is water to be had. The light reflections will make the water appear not to be still.

That's really interesting about the idea of stillness. Do you think they're attracted to the water's motion primarily? My chams have never drank during mistings (3x daily for 5 mins), but would happily lick the now-stationary droplets off the top of the cage or adjacent leaves afterwards. I've never seen a cham lunge at a moving water droplet. Thoughts?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

The water itself doesn't have to be in motion, but I imagine the movement of light reflecting from stationary droplets is what triggers them to drink.

I disagree that there is anything wrong with serving water to captive chameleons in this way. If they are drinking from a glass, then they are getting much more than lapping at mist or small droplets. I am not in any sort of disagreement with the keeper's watering method. I just don't want people assuming all chameleons will do this and that it is a replacement for misting regularly.

 

[ChameSecret]

The water itself doesn't have to be in motion, but I imagine the movement of light reflecting from stationary droplets is what triggers them to drink.

Hmm by this logic if you made water somehow disperse more light you could increase the probability of drinking right? So maybe increasing the amount of light on your misting setup or somehow arranging the water to make it "shinier" would make watering easier?

I disagree that there is anything wrong with serving water to captive chameleons in this way. If they are drinking from a glass, then they are getting much more than lapping at mist or small droplets. I am not in any sort of disagreement with the keeper's watering method. I just don't want people assuming all chameleons will do this and that it is a replacement for misting regularly.

I guess it's possible that they're getting more water, but doesn't it seem just sort of... unnecessarily fighting against biology? Against nature? Based on the limited readings I've found about life span in captivity vs in the wild it seems like we still have a ton to learn as far as replicating ideal "chameleon conditions", and adding another unnatural variable just seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. In addition, I thought condemning it would stave off beginning a pointlessly self-congratulatory moral argument about this practice (given how much people love to moralize/talk down/call out people on this forum) so we could focus on how this works.

 

[Peachypink]

Reading though his responses to all of this I do think he has a valid point on his set up being done as if you are inside a tree looking out. I do not, however, feel from what he has shown that it even does that much. Still way too sparse.

That being said, I don't get the water thing. There is no way of telling, at least from what I saw, if or how much he mists. I don't see anything done other than putting a full glass in the enclosure. Maybe the way and how he did it is because it is only attracted to it because it may be the only source of water or had been for a long enough time to get them to recognize it as a water source? Too much left out of the story in my opinion to really get a good grasp on what he is doing. I suppose I could go in and find every single thing this guy has posted and put the pieces together. I think one of many reason it is advised against having still water is because it ends up being a breeding ground for bacteria unless you refresh and clean it daily and there is the chams who will poop in it. Very interesting.

 

[Pitcard]

I've done the water cup with 4 veilds I've had with only one actively drinking (she started on the day the cup was put in). I found it very interesting, and don't really see the problem with it when it's kept clean and used in addition to misting/dripping, not as a replacement for it.

It's just a big water droplet, and if it stimulates them to drink, how could that possibly be doing harm?

 

[ChameSecret]

don't really see the problem with it when it's kept clean and used in addition to misting/dripping, not as a replacement for it.
It's just a big water droplet, and if it stimulates them to drink, how could that possibly be doing harm?

Absolutely, I think this is the sanest way to think about it. Obviously you shouldn't ONLY have a cup, but if you had a brilliant automatic misting system AND a shiny, well-lit reflective water glass that was cleaned daily, it might not be crazy.