Related breeding

Klaudiemo

Klaudiemo

Established Member
Hi,
I found out, that I've bought two related ambanjas. They both have same dad but different mother. Is it dangerous to breed them? I've read that the first generation of babies from related parents is just ok, no deformities or sick babies whatsoever. And that it is when breeding brother and sister chameleons (whose parents were also related) where the trouble begins. I would like to hear your opinion.

I honestly had such a bad luck! I've bought a male from wholeseler and it turned out he gets chameleons from the same person my female came from. After further digging, I found out, that they have same dad. At least mothers are different. The father is gorgeous though!
 
Btw @Nursemaia don't kill me. That wasn't directed at you. I'm not saying you're wrong even, I wouldn't know one way or another. I've wondered this myself and I totally believe you're a person that sticks to your beliefs on something. I just meant generally speaking you see people get bashed for doing something unless they happen to be a known name in the community
 
jamest0o0 said:
Btw @Nursemaia don't kill me. That wasn't directed at you. I'm not saying you're wrong even, I wouldn't know one way or another. I've wondered this myself and I totally believe you're a person that sticks to your beliefs on something. I just meant generally speaking you see people get bashed for doing something unless they happen to be a known name in the community
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I disagree with it from the reputable big breeders as well and as far as I'm concerned reputable breeders won't do it either. When you're doing in line breeding your breeding for looks and not health and I think that is irresponsible. I could go on a real tirade about purebred dogs. Look at what it's considered a show-quality German Shepherd, they can barely walk properly. Golden retrievers almost died of cancer, Cavalier King Charles have a skull it's too tiny for their brain and have a wonderful neurological condition that causes seizures and pain yay, Bulldogs are actually Dwarfs, and brachycephalic dogs can't breathe right. So sure let's breed relatives to relatives I'm sure it'll work out okay with the chameleons.
 
I've seen 2 big names(won't mention the names) that do this. I'm really not experienced enough with breeding to speak on it. I agree with what you're describing though, but I guess that's just the way it goes when an animal is bought for it's looks.
 
jamest0o0 said:
I've seen 2 big names(won't mention the names) that do this. I'm really not experienced enough with breeding to speak on it. I agree with what you're describing though, but I guess that's just the way it goes when an animal is bought for it's looks.
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I can criticize any big Company who does inbreeding for you. hell. I throw in a coursing or two aswell.
 
kinyonga said:
Look at an example of related breeding....many years ago (1972) a very few dozen Jacksons xanths were released in Hawaii and they created the population that is there now....
http://www.bigislandhawaiitravelguide.com/articles/wildlife-articles/jacksons-chameleons.html
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that is true. but is not the same as having 2 siblings and let their descendants genarations mate. you have a wider genpool then of 2 siblings or 2 cousing. then xanthos in Hawaii come with deformities and other abnormalities. like double horns, size difference etc. how is the mortality rate on hawaii´s neonates compare to african ones?
 
Pretty sure there isn't any scientific evidence that shows neagative effects of line breeding In reptiles. I'm not an immediate fan of the idea, but I don't think it will hurt the offspring. Very small groups of reptiles have survived for thousands of years in seclusion, I don't think inbreeding causes a ton of issues.
 
I'm pretty sure the spider wobble in ball pythons is evidence of negative effects of line breeding. There's also the enigma effect in leopard geckos. It's kinda sad to watch them have such difficulties eating.
 
Thanks all for responses. The wholeseler I've bought the male from agreed to take him back. I will look for another one. I don't want to risk having sick babies. I wouldn't even feel good about selling babies from related parrents. Thank you again!
 
@leedragon I have talked with Mary Lovein many times and I've seen many many photographs of the chameleons that com into her garden and I don't remember there being any that had deformed horns or any other issues that would come from breeding related ones. There was an issue when they were spraying for the coqui frogs that the spraying was causing issues with the chameleons though.

Its one thing to breed a brother and sister for one generation and then outbreed...but it's different to then breed the offspring of the sibling pairing together etc. I don't know if the OP intended to do that. Personally I wouldn't breed siblings together but only posted to give an example that it can be done....with caution.
 
@Klaudiemo There is something called "hybrid vigor" that happens when you out cross. I suspect most chamleons in the wild are pretty inbred. They don't exactly move very far or fast.
 
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