Rescued Sambava Panther, humbly requesting recovery guidance.

[MedicMan1]

Hey everyone. This is my first post here, I didn't see an intro section. I'm a paramedic and animal lover. I had a Veiled chameleon when I was a teen, and have always loved these little living mood rings. But enough about me.

I will try to follow the outline in "How to ask for help"...

The Chameleon: I was given a male Sambava Panther approx 15 months old today by someone who didn't have time for the little guy. He was hatched in September of 2015. He came from Kammerflage Creations and was Sired by "Victarion" and the Dam was "Tyene".

Handling: I have not handled him yet, as he does NOT let me get within a few inches before he fires up and tells me to sod off. With great clarity. He is extremely timid. He will tolerate a hand about six inches away, but any closer and he strikes out and will just about fall off of a branch to get away.

Feeding: He ate two large king meal worms today, and has been chugging water for the last hour after I set him up a little jury-rigged dripper system. I haven't given him supplements yet, as he didn't come with any and I literally took him back to station with me (on duty) to get a jump start on some proper care. I will be doing some extensive shopping tomorrow.

Poo: His poo was brown and dark, with some white, but none of it was fresh when I cleaned the cage. I will report back when I see the fresh stuff.

History: *The previous owner told me that he has had him since sept. of last year, and just doesn't have time for him anymore. To me, it looks like he hasn't for a while. He admitted that sometimes they forget to mist the cage for days, and have forgotten from time to time to turn the poor guys lights on in the morning. This and poor feeding habits, and the list goes on. We are probably looking at a picture of general/overall neglect here. The poor little guy is pretty skinny and looks much smaller than the other panthers that I have seen online around his age. He looks about half the size. His colors are nowhere near as vivid as others his age, however he is a pretty little guy. He has a lot of blues and greens, and is showing some yellow, red, and orange.*

Cage: He is currently housed in a 12x12x36 cage that was given to me along with the little guy. It is aluminum mesh.

Lighting: I bought him a Repti-sun 5.0 100w UVA bulb today. The owner said that the old one burnt out and he never replaced it. He also has a UVB bolt of the same specs and a ceramic heater bulb.

Temp: Currently 80 degrees. Owner didn't have a temp gauge.

Humidity: Around 60% with a dripper going. His cage was bone dry and had been for a WHILE. There was no humidity gauge on his cage.

Plants: All fake plastic plants and vines now but that will change most likely tomorrow.

Placement: I haven't gotten him home yet, But I have a spot for him picked out near a window in a low traffic area.

Location: I am located in Oregon.

The problem: This poor little guy appears to be much smaller than other chams his age, and isn't showing the colors that he probably should be by now. He appears to be fairly dehydrated and malnourished. I fear that his growth may have been stunted by improper care. His body is around 5-6 inches and so is his tail. I know all chams are different and size/color can be individually determined, but I fear that his care was the culprit here.

Sidenote: I am determined to care for this little guy properly. I have done a bunch of research over the last several days (I knew ahead of time that I was going to take him) and am committed wholeheartedly to nursing this guy back to his full potential. My goal is to have a happy and healthy panther that will tolerate occasional handling and trust gentle hands. Right now, the poor guy isn't really any of these things. I will gladly and intently take any advice that you wonderful chaps can offer, and will keep my research going.

Thanks!!!

 

[Kingkush]

I would take a piece of 1x2 wood long enough to sit on the top cage frame and use closed eye hooks and hang a big fat pothos in the middle so he can hide out and you have live plants.. Start him on probiotics and get his appetite up he doesnt look to bad just malnourished perhaps. Myself i use dowels and make what lokks like a Z and upper and lower perch and a diagnal dowel zip tied to those 2 horizontal. I dont like those big textured vines they dry out in my experience and create like a sand and particulates that has potential to get in eyes.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

I'm not a panther expert by any means, but he doesn't look too bad to me. A little thin but it sounds like he's in very caring hands now. I'd focus on the best nutrition you can get in him. Dubia are great staples, horn worms will help with hydration, bsfl for calcium, and wax worms will plump the little dude right up. Easy on the waxworms because he'll get spoiled but they're a great way to build trust by hand feeding. He definitely needs lots more cover! If he's timid, he'll be less stressed if he has a safe hiding area.

 

[Peachypink]

I agree, he doesn't look horrible. Victarion is a gorgeous Panther! I almost chose one of his babies!

Read through the care sheets...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

Like said above, get his some good feeders and gut load. Meal worms are not great feeders. Make sure to get some good supplements. I use Rapashy Calcium Plus...it is an all in one, NO need for any other supplement, and can be used daily. Brianna at Kramers and I had a long talk about it and I am so glad I started using it. Get him some more cover with some live plants and you are well on your way.

Also, I am sure if you emailed Braina, she would be more than happy to help guide you as well. They are great.

If you don't go the Rapashy round then you need a Plain calcium with No D3 for dusting 6 days a week, Calcium with D3 twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month.

 

[Decadancin]

I agree, doesn't look too bad. It is a great sign that he is drinking a lot. Once you get a nice enclosure set up with some live plants and vines to travel, he should start feeling secure and display some colors. Right now, as you stated, he is likely very stressed and needs some time to regain strength.

Good luck with your new addition and I can't wait to see him at his full potential! One other side note, make sure to research about a good vet with chameleon experience. You may want to get a fecal done to rule out parasites, especially due to his smaller size.

By the way, Welcome to the Forums !

 

[jajeanpierre]

I agree, he doesn't look too bad. You've had some good advice.

I'm a firm believer in an automatic misting system. They aren't that expensive (get a good one, like a MistKing that won't break if the reservoir runs dry which it will, believe me). They need mist to clean their eyes as well as drinking. Hand misting just isn't the same especially if he is afraid of you.

If he has been chronically dehydrated in his last home, you might end up with kidney failure somewhere down the road but their isn't anything you can do about that other than to make sure he is super hydrated.

Chameleons continue to grow through their lives. I would expect him to catch up.

I just acclimated a young wild caught that I expected to die. He could only hold his weight at 20g to 22g if I force fed him, which I did for four months. I'm not kidding, almost four months. Three months into acclimating him he was still a couple of grams under his import weight. It took lots of vet visits and a lot of work before he decided to live. Yes, he had a heavy parasitic infection but he still wanted to die months after the parasites were taken care of. I was just waiting for him to finally die but he didn't. Once he decided to live, he just put on a lot of weight. He almost doubled his weight in 6 weeks, (22g to 39g). He's almost caught up with the two other males I bought out of the same shipment that were all around the same size at import. His horns have an expected flaw in them showing the period he was so sick, but he looks great now.

 

[Spyro]

If you need any feeder silkworms or hornworms for him to try out, I'd be happy to ship you some cost covered by me. I breed both types of worms. Just let me know and you can PM me for other details like shipping.

 

[MedicMan1]

Thanks for your reply guys!! He's doing fantastic today, and honestly already looks a bit plumper and more hydrated. He's been showing me some hints of some pretty spectacular colors

The attitude is definitely still present though, good thing I am determined and very patient.

I got him home today and have been intently working on his cage and supplies since this morning. I went shopping and got him a dripper, a cage for crickets (full of crickets), gut load cricket food (looks like oatmeal), reptivite, a spray bottle for misting, and some other random things that escape me at the moment.

No luck on the live plants for today, all the local stores have liquidated their supplies for winter. I'll order one if I have to. I'll be checking in a nearby town tomorrow. His cage is just big enough for a small potted Ficus.

I've been misting today and running the dripper. He's made many trips to drink. He's been ignoring the mealworms, so I dusted around ten small to medium crickets and threw them in the cage. He FREAKED out and snapped up all but a couple that were hiding in his plants. That's the fastest I've seen him move yet. Poor guy.

Humidity today has been bouncing around 50 and 60%, the ambient temp in his cage is 80, and his basking spot is right around 100.

All in all, I believe there is hope. He has a heck of an appetite and has been drinking a lot. We may be well on our way to a healthy Panther.

Spyro, I will gladly take you up on that. PM incoming.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The basking spot seems too hot to me.

 

[MedicMan1]

Well, I should clarify. About four inches from the lights, at the precipice of a vine, it's around 100. He has the option of going several inches lower. He's been bouncing back and forth. I shall get an electronic thermometer, my figures are guestimations.

 

[guanagator]

I would drop the basking temp at nearest perch to high 80s. I keep my panthers basking areas around 87-88 and ambient in the mid 70s. Night drops to mid 60s. Sounds like he's lucked into a much better situation and you picked a good one to rescue that animal is from top quality bloodlines and will look great once you get him happy. A 2'x2'x4' enclosure full of live plants and a mistking would be my first upgrades after a fecal to be sure he's clean. Have you given him a shower? You can point the shower head towards the wall and let him hang out on a plant or just put the entire cage in the shower and let it run lukewarm for a half hour or more that will really let him rehydrate and clean out his eyes. Keep us posted can't wait to see how he looks once he's back on track.

 

[Angelwolf]

I think you are a very lucky man, and your cham is even luckier!

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new Panther. He looks good and not like a rescue at all. I bask panthers in the mid 80's. You might find my blog for new keepers helpful. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/

More great chameleon info here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/

 

[MedicMan1]

Ladies and gentlemen, we had some fantastic developments this morning.

Every time I feed him (and he's been eating well), I take the bug in my hand, slowly place my hand in the cage below his level, and say gently to him "see, hand brings food", and open my hand. This morning, He made eye contact with me, looked at the cricket in my hand, and ate it. From my hand. Pretty stoked.

Then, to top things off, I gave him a shower. I put his whole cage in the shower (our local tap water is very pure, small rural town), put it on warm, and bounced the spray off the wall. He sat in there and rolled his eyes around to clean them, then climbed to the top of his cage and chugged water directly from the top screen. He was in the shower for 20 minutes until my hot water ran out. He showed me all kinds of awesome colors the whole time. He's getting ready to start popping off with some wild orange and red shades, and is already showing very cool blues and greens, and mixes thereof.

But here's the kicker... He let me handle him! Admitted, it was a cheap shot because he had his eyes closed when I put my finger under his foot, but he crawled up into my hand and stayed calm. When he opened his eyes, he gave my this kinda "oh, uh, crap" look, but didn't get aggressive. I moved my thumb once and he informed me that I was, under no circumstances, allowed to move my thumb. I bet you can guess which picture that one is!

He's looking so much better after two days even. I can see the difference in his tail and his little bony bits. He's starting to fatten up just a bit. I'm getting excited. This little guy is so rad. Did I mention he was FREE?

Stay tuned. I will continue to post updates and listen to any feedback that comes this way.

 

[Andee]

I have seen way worse off rescues, he looks a bit dehydrated, a little thin but nothing that some good nutrition and lots of hydration won't help. I would suggest a nice warm shower for around 30 minutes to help with his hydration. I would definitely continue this for at least once a week for a month, preferably more often. I would look into soft bodied worms and other feeders. He does look dull but that will change very quickly in my opinion looking at his daddy <3. He will surprise you very likely. I am glad he's coming around. He should do well for you. Just keep an eye out for any weird issues that might crop up later on in his life, such as kidney failure, or parasites. Did you replace his uvb? Looking forward to lots of updates! Good luck to both of you <3

 

[MedicMan1]

Update: The little guy just keeps getting better! His colors are quickly starting to come out. He has been eating and drinking well, and looks healthier and hydrated.

I got him a Pothos plant, changed the soil and pot, and covered the dirt with stones. He is already very interested in it. We ran his favorite drinking vine right through the middle of the plant so he can get up in there to drink and hide.

He showed me some of his sleeping colors last night. They were so different than his regular greens and blues that it took me by surprise. He was BEAUTIFUL shades of peach, yellow, and pale orange.

I'm looking at an automatic dripper system and new enclosure. I'll be hooking him up with stuff over the. Ext couple months and I aim to arrive at a 24x24x48 with automated misting and lights. I'm thinking about a Dragon Strand enclosure with drip tray. Do you guys have any experience with that one, or can you reccomend a better choice?

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll be ordering some supplies today, including Repashy calcium plus and another small plant, perhaps a ficus.

 

[Spyro]

I've got two of the dragonstrand cages. I don't currently have the drip pan for them, but will be ordering one soon. I recommend them and love them. Get some spray foam, the water/animal safe kind, and you can really do some amazing things with the enclosure. Here is a picture of one of mine. Can you find the little dude?

 

[MedicMan1]

That's AWESOME Spyro! That is good news, I think I shall order one soon then. I am going to get the drip pan, and I think I'll rig up a system for drainage. I am thinking about shimming the bottom of the drainage tray just a bit, drilling a hole and the downhill corner in the drainage tray, and attaching a hose that drains into a bucket. Just an idea though. I will look into that foam also!

I did spot the little guy. Very quickly actually. He's adorable! Got to be a couple months or so old? Can't be more than five months...

 

[Peachypink]

Update: The little guy just keeps getting better! His colors are quickly starting to come out. He has been eating and drinking well, and looks healthier and hydrated.

I got him a Pothos plant, changed the soil and pot, and covered the dirt with stones. He is already very interested in it. We ran his favorite drinking vine right through the middle of the plant so he can get up in there to drink and hide.

He showed me some of his sleeping colors last night. They were so different than his regular greens and blues that it took me by surprise. He was BEAUTIFUL shades of peach, yellow, and pale orange.

I'm looking at an automatic dripper system and new enclosure. I'll be hooking him up with stuff over the. Ext couple months and I aim to arrive at a 24x24x48 with automated misting and lights. I'm thinking about a Dragon Strand enclosure with drip tray. Do you guys have any experience with that one, or can you reccomend a better choice?

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll be ordering some supplies today, including Repashy calcium plus and another small plant, perhaps a ficus.

Looking great! You are doing great getting everything set up well. That willingness to do what is needed is what will make all the difference! Keep it up!


Dragon strand is awesome. I have a large atrium on the way now. Can not wait to get it. I did not order the drip tray since it would have added $200 to my already expensive order. I'm saving up for it though.

 

[Andee]

I don't have a dragon strand but want one. However I will not get one until I can get a huge one or a couple I combine for my larger chameleons. At the moment I have no space for them. Right now zoomed xlarges are working, but I would love to give a larger cage.