Rescued Water Dragons

[hinoco1225]

I took in three neglected juvenile Chinese water dragons last night. I've got them set up in a 20L, which I know is not big enough for them, but it's the best I can do right now. Two of them are very lethargic, so they're not doing any running around anyway. At least they have proper access to heat and UVB now. They had both bulbs before, but with the way the tank was set up, I don't think they got sufficient heat or UVB. I don't see any signs of MBD with any of them; only lethargy. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know what I'm doing with them and see if anybody has any more tips that could help me nurse them back to health.

Since the tank is fairly small, all I have in there is a water dish (big enough for full-body soaking), a dish of greens (which they have shown zero interest in), and a large log hide. Basking light is above the hide and the temp is about 89 right now. I soaked them all individually and misted the habitat once this morning. I offered a few crickets dusted with plain calcium, but they didn't eat any of them. I got some ReptaBoost and got two of the dragons to take some of it just now. Other than that, I'm just watching them for any changes.

Is there anything else I can do? I really want these guys to make it.

Also, is it possible they could be stressing each other out? They are all still very young, and they have always been together. I haven't seen any fighting or anything, but I know that water dragons should live alone as they mature.

 

[lslcronk]

I love water dragons! They were one of the first reptiles I wanted as a kid, but parents (mainly Dad) never let me have one! I thank you for taking them in and trying to help them...

Maybe if you could take some pics of them to post ppl might have some ideas and I would start searching the web for info, maybe run out to the pet store -I know PetSmart/PetCo have books on their care (I am sure you can find the same info on-line. I wish you luck, they are beautiful little reptiles!

 

[kinyonga]

I've kept/bred/raised water dragons for over 12 years.

I kept the basking area in the mid 80's for very young ones. They are arboreal so they won't likely use a hide....mine never did. I never had any issues with them stressing each other out when kept together when they were young.

Are the insects you are feeding them an appropriate size?
Can you post a photo please?

 

[hinoco1225]

I've kept/bred/raised water dragons for over 12 years.

I kept the basking area in the mid 80's for very young ones. They are arboreal so they won't likely use a hide....mine never did. I never had any issues with them stressing each other out when kept together when they were young.

Are the insects you are feeding them an appropriate size?
Can you post a photo please?

The main reason I put the hide in there was so they could have something to climb on to get closer to the basking light. I can put in a lower wattage bulb or take the hide out if that temp is too high.

I put in crickets that ranged in size from 1/2 inch to fully grown. The biggest dragon is a good bit bigger than the other two.

I'll go take some pictures now.

 

[K9Luvn]

Thank you for saving these babies and I hope something can be done!!!

I have a CWD and it breaks my heart to think of anyone every neglecting her! You might be able to pull these through with proper care. Alot of CWD do not care about veggies.... that is why it is important to gutload with veggies. Remember to keep humidity and heat up for them. I am very interested to see the photos. I wish you were close by. I am currently making a 6' H x4.5' W x 2.5' and would gladly give you my 4'H x 3' W x 2' D just for helping these wee ones that depended on someone to care for them in life.

Lets see those pictures.

 

[hinoco1225]

First pic is the biggest dragon next to a 10-inch ruler. Second is the middle dragon. I couldn't get the smallest to stay still for a picture (he is the one who still seems fairly healthy).

 

[hinoco1225]

The pic I took of the whole setup from the front isn't wanting to upload, but I guess you can see what it looks like. Not much to it, but I was just thinking about the lack of space and I didn't want to crowd the tank too much. I will be able to get something bigger for them after I get paid on Friday. I'm Craigslisting right now, lol.

 

[hinoco1225]

Thank you for saving these babies and I hope something can be done!!!

I have a CWD and it breaks my heart to think of anyone every neglecting her! You might be able to pull these through with proper care. Alot of CWD do not care about veggies.... that is why it is important to gutload with veggies. Remember to keep humidity and heat up for them. I am very interested to see the photos. I wish you were close by. I am currently making a 6' H x4.5' W x 2.5' and would gladly give you my 4'H x 3' W x 2' D just for helping these wee ones that depended on someone to care for them in life.

Lets see those pictures.

Thanks!

Gosh, I wish I was close by as well! I'm pretty broke right now, but I couldn't just let these guys keep deteriorating. I'll find a way to get something bigger for them soon.

 

[hinoco1225]

I managed to get 40 breeder for the dragons today. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to rearrange my room to make room for it. Once I get that done, how should I set the tank up? What's the best substrate for these guys? And should I use live plants? Driftwood? I know they like to climb, but I'm not exactly sure about the best way to set up a habitat for them.

 

[K9Luvn]

Actaully I think all these babies are goig to pull through. You have UVB and heat on them, Water for soaking. But they still need to have humidty on them to keep a high humid environment. Mist them as well.

Go out into the yard.... find some old sticks and bake them in your oven. Place the sicks in a vertical positions so they can climb high and low on them. Make sure you gutload your feeder insects. We throw our apple cores, carrots.... in with the crickets and they eat it right up. Does anyone have small Dubia roaches near you??? At this age they will enjoy crickets and meal and wax worms. See if you can get some phoenix worms as they are very high in calcium. You will need to sprinkle supplements on the feeders alternate between calcium wih D3 and also without.

Look around for an old dresser or stereo cabinet and as you can just seal the insides for water humidity... cut out for screen on top and place plexiglass doors on the front. If you know anyone on your street that does any kind wood or such work I'm sure they could whip a cage up in a day and just wait for it to dry and air out the smell form sealer. Your off do a good save and and with your care they will be saved. This is the guy I got my first cage from http://ccrittercages.webs.com/apps/photos/ It has worked very well just added more vines heat/uvb coolmist ultrasonic humidifier and it has worked out perfect. I'm sure someone could whip this up in your area if they care to help you.

 

[kinyonga]

They seem to be in pretty good condition so they should survive.

Cage: Although many people insist that tall cages must be used, I have always used ones that are longer than they are tall. I do this because in the wild they like to sit on branches overhanging water. My cages have always had glass fronts and either glass or wooden sides and lids that are at least partly screened. For adults, I divide the cage into a water section (1/3rd's) and a land (2/3rd's) section with a tap beneath the water section so that the water can be easily changed. I use cypress mulch for a substrate in the land area of the cage. For hatchlings and young dragons, I use no substrate and the water is kept in a shallow container. There should be branches of appropriate sizes for the dragons to climb and sit on.

Lighting: At one end of the cage (not the water end) I place an incandescent light in a hood to provide a basking spot. Along the length of the cage I place a linear/tube fluorescent UVB bulb in a hood. (There should be no glass or plastic between this light and the dragon.) Placing the basking light at one end helps to create a warm end and a cooler end. Exposure to UVB either from the proper light or from direct sunlight allows the dragon to produce vitamin D3 which in turn allows it to use the calcium in its diet/system.

Temperature: For hatchlings, I keep the basking area in the low to mid 80'sF...but for the adults, it can be in the mid 80's to the low 90'sF. Because of the hatchlings' size they can overheat and dehydrate easier than the adults can. Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Water: the water should be changed every day or two to keep the bacteria levels low and because the dragons defecate/urinate in the water. I use tap water that I have let sit out overnight so that the chlorine will dissipate and the water will warm up. I only keep the water deep enough that when the dragon is standing on the bottom, his nose is still able to be out of the water.

Feeding: hatchlings should be fed insects of an appropriate size daily while adults need only be fed every two or three days. They can be fed crickets, superworms, silkworms, roaches, etc. and once in a while, waxworms. Althought many people also feed them pinkie mice, I rarely do and have had no problems with them not eating them regularly. I also feed all of my dragons an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, celery leaves, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.) and a little bit of fruit (apple, pear, melon, berries, etc.) every second or third day. Even if the dragons don't eat it, it provides food for the crickets.

Supplements: because many of the feeder insects we use have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, I dust the insects at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. I use Rep-Cal.

I also dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene can not build up in the system like preformed vitamin A can. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD. (Preformed vitamin A is exactly that...already in the form of vitamin A. Beta carotene has to be converted by the dragon's sytem into vitamin A.) I use Herptivite.

Since my dragons don't get any direct sunlight, I also dust twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can build up in the system so don't overdo it. I use Rep-Cal with D3.

I gutload/feed the crickets with the greens and veggies I use to feed the dragons.

Calcium, D3, vitamin A and phosphorous are important players in bone health and need to be in balance. When balancing them you need to look at what you feed the dragon, what you feed the insects and what you supplement with.

Background information: I have kept/bred/hatched/raised Chinese water dragons for 15+ years. I have had a good hatch rate and a good survival rate. Keeping the dragons the way I have described above the males can live to be over 15 years old...females slightly less (IMHO, due to egg production).

 

[K9Luvn]

They seem to be in pretty good condition so they should survive.

Cage: Although many people insist that tall cages must be used, I have always used ones that are longer than they are tall. I do this because in the wild they like to sit on branches overhanging water. My cages have always had glass fronts and either glass or wooden sides and lids that are at least partly screened. For adults, I divide the cage into a water section (1/3rd's) and a land (2/3rd's) section with a tap beneath the water section so that the water can be easily changed. I use cypress mulch for a substrate in the land area of the cage. For hatchlings and young dragons, I use no substrate and the water is kept in a shallow container. There should be branches of appropriate sizes for the dragons to climb and sit on.

Lighting: At one end of the cage (not the water end) I place an incandescent light in a hood to provide a basking spot. Along the length of the cage I place a linear/tube fluorescent UVB bulb in a hood. (There should be no glass or plastic between this light and the dragon.) Placing the basking light at one end helps to create a warm end and a cooler end. Exposure to UVB either from the proper light or from direct sunlight allows the dragon to produce vitamin D3 which in turn allows it to use the calcium in its diet/system.

Temperature: For hatchlings, I keep the basking area in the low to mid 80'sF...but for the adults, it can be in the mid 80's to the low 90'sF. Because of the hatchlings' size they can overheat and dehydrate easier than the adults can. Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part in nutrient absorption.

Water: the water should be changed every day or two to keep the bacteria levels low and because the dragons defecate/urinate in the water. I use tap water that I have let sit out overnight so that the chlorine will dissipate and the water will warm up. I only keep the water deep enough that when the dragon is standing on the bottom, his nose is still able to be out of the water.

Feeding: hatchlings should be fed insects of an appropriate size daily while adults need only be fed every two or three days. They can be fed crickets, superworms, silkworms, roaches, etc. and once in a while, waxworms. Althought many people also feed them pinkie mice, I rarely do and have had no problems with them not eating them regularly. I also feed all of my dragons an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, celery leaves, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.) and a little bit of fruit (apple, pear, melon, berries, etc.) every second or third day. Even if the dragons don't eat it, it provides food for the crickets.

Supplements: because many of the feeder insects we use have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, I dust the insects at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. I use Rep-Cal.

I also dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene can not build up in the system like preformed vitamin A can. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD. (Preformed vitamin A is exactly that...already in the form of vitamin A. Beta carotene has to be converted by the dragon's sytem into vitamin A.) I use Herptivite.

Since my dragons don't get any direct sunlight, I also dust twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can build up in the system so don't overdo it. I use Rep-Cal with D3.

I gutload/feed the crickets with the greens and veggies I use to feed the dragons.

Calcium, D3, vitamin A and phosphorous are important players in bone health and need to be in balance. When balancing them you need to look at what you feed the dragon, what you feed the insects and what you supplement with.

Background information: I have kept/bred/hatched/raised Chinese water dragons for 15+ years. I have had a good hatch rate and a good survival rate. Keeping the dragons the way I have described above the males can live to be over 15 years old...females slightly less (IMHO, due to egg production).

With great info like this I have no doubt you are going to give these guys a well care for life from here on in!

 

[fluxlizard]

Kinyongia's advice is right on. I use a little more d3 and vit a than she, but whatever works.

A couple words of advice in addition-

Do not mistake stress for tameness with these guys. Water dragons, especially small ones, often respond to stress by moving very little when being messed with, which looks like tameness, but is still very stressful for the lizards. Avoid handling any more than necessary until they are pooping on a regular schedule so you can be sure you are not causing stress. Once acclimated and fattened up, they can be handled quite a bit more if you want. They look stressed to me (dark) but I can only see the thumbnails- for some reason clicking your thumbnails crashes my browser o)

For a hiding spot, if you experiment you will find they like to wedge in so they can feel the sides of the hide against their body- a piece of driftwood they can wedge in beside or cork bark tube just large enough for them to wriggle into will probably be better appreciated than the half-log you have going on now. Once they acclimate they won't spend much time hiding and at that point your half log will be more than fine.

If you offer rep-cal bearded dragon pellets constantly, you will find that they will eventually learn to eat some alongside their insects and greens and it is a great way to round out the diet. It may take a while, but if you drop your insects into a small bowl of the pellets you will find that after several months they eat some pellets as well. You will probably have a similar experience with the greens also- may take a while, but IMO important to offer continually and constantly anyway and then they will learn.

Water- you should really change as often as you find a mess. With 3 that might mean you change before leaving the house in the morning, again on returning in the evening and again before bedtime.

 

[hinoco1225]

Thanks for all the information. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how to care for healthy water dragons, but I just don't know how to get these guys up to par. I can't get them to eat on their own. The biggest dragon snagged one cricket first thing this morning, but then he froze up and hasn't eaten any more since. And I don't believe either of the other two have eaten by themselves since I got them. Why wouldn't they be eating? Even the little one, who has seemed very healthy and active, hasn't eaten. I know they've had a stressful few days... Could it just be stress? I don't think they're too cold and I don't feel like the crickets are too big, but maybe I'll try smaller crickets anyway. I don't know what else to do.

 

[K9Luvn]

They have just made a move to a new home. There life has changed so they are stressed. They are likely not eating because they are being watched. Put them in an a quiet area were they don't see people and such. The little ones don't understand that you are trying to care for them. Just put some food in without messing with them and let them be until they adjust. They are just going through a stressful time and the more you try to push them to eat and such... the more stressed they will be and the less they will eat.... move about....

 

[hinoco1225]

They have just made a move to a new home. There life has changed so they are stressed. They are likely not eating because they are being watched. Put them in an a quiet area were they don't see people and such. The little ones don't understand that you are trying to care for them. Just put some food in without messing with them and let them be until they adjust. They are just going through a stressful time and the more you try to push them to eat and such... the more stressed they will be and the less they will eat.... move about....

Yeah, I've been trying to leave them alone as much as possible... My cat hasn't been though. We put her in another room yesterday, so now she won't bother them anymore while they're adjusting.

So you don't think I should give them more ReptaBoost? I've been debating on whether it would be worth it since I know they're probably stressed. I'm just worried about them.

 

[fluxlizard]

Even the little one, who has seemed very healthy and active, hasn't eaten. I know they've had a stressful few days... Could it just be stress?

Yes- and in light of that tidbit of info, here is another tip I've find works really well when dealing with young imported water dragons.

It is kind of counter-intuitive for diurnal lizards, but I've found that leaving the heat-lamp on 24/7 for the first several weeks helps get them feeding regularly. A good dark hide is important. I think the reason it works so well is because they can choose to become active and feed in the middle of the night or any other time when things are quiet. I had a thing for water dragons for a while and found this made acclimation much easier. I do not recommend long-term practice of 24/7 lighting...

If you don't want to do that, then put the lights on a good timer so the lizards have a predictable life. Same with cleaning and feeding- a regular schedule will be learned by the lizards and they will feel like they will know what is about to happen- alleviates some of the stress.

Just put some food in without messing with them and let them be until they adjust.

Really good advice.

 

[hinoco1225]

Yes- and in light of that tidbit of info, here is another tip I've find works really well when dealing with young imported water dragons.

It is kind of counter-intuitive for diurnal lizards, but I've found that leaving the heat-lamp on 24/7 for the first several weeks helps get them feeding regularly. A good dark hide is important. I think the reason it works so well is because they can choose to become active and feed in the middle of the night or any other time when things are quiet. I had a thing for water dragons for a while and found this made acclimation much easier. I do not recommend long-term practice of 24/7 lighting...

I think I will try that for a while. I actually heard them running around a couple of nights ago when all lights were off, so that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[K9Luvn]

I personally would not stress them trying to syringe feed them Repta-Boost. However you might be able to inject feeders that you are giving them in hopes they will eat them and get the Repta-boot into them as well.

For now I think they just really need to keep any form of stress away. Definitely keep the cat away!!! As much as you want to be with them to help them (that is the maternal thing we do to help others) for them the less interaction they have in the beginning the better. Once they are adjusted to there new life they will adjust and eat readily and even get out on you to play. But for now.... the interaction as possible.

I have not ever had to use the lighting method above... But there is no doubt this is good advice as I'm sure they have more experience that I do.

 

[kinyonga]

Adding some branches and fake greenery in the branches might make them feel more comfortable. Also...make sure the temperature in the area near the basking light where they will be able to sit is in the low to mid 80'sF.
I think the advice to leave them alone was good...and I also think keeping the cat out of the room is a good idea.
Also...make sure the insects are an appropriate size.