Respiratory Infection

[Solid Snake]

Thanks.

Yeah it seems that way.

Have you tried giving Snickers a REALLY dry period?
Like cutting all mistings for a day or so?
Keep a dripper maybe, but just let everything get as dry as possible?
Just somthing I would try.

 

[xeonic]

No. I just cut the mistings down to 60 seconds every 5 hours. and raised the temperature using the 75W ceramic heater. I'll try the dry period though.
So right now the ambient temperature is 75, right above the ceramic heater which is at the bottom of the tank is 84. Both basking spots are 90. I think the Ceramic heater will also help with air circulation. Hot air goes up, sucking in fresh air through the mesh at the bottom. Humidity is about 35 - 50 depending on location in the tank. The middle of the tank has highest humidity. The chameleon has been sleeping just above the ceramic heater.

 

[Solid Snake]

I may not be 100% correct here but,
I think,
High temps kill the infection,
Med temps grow the infection,
low temps freeze the infection.

I would shoot for keeping him hot(day) or cold(nite)
Thats just my random thought there. That could be more harmful for all I know. Sounds...sound, to me though.
IDK just thinking out things...

 

[xeonic]

Yeah I read allot of conflicting info. Some people sure use a warm mister to raise humidity. some say raise temperature and lower humidity. My vet recommended no changes the way I had it setup before. I'm hoping the Baytril works. And if it doesn't then there must be something else going on.

 

[Solid Snake]

Well Ive heard good thing about it, but Ill keep my fingers crossed for yall for sure

Definitely keep updating.

 

[xeonic]

Well still no luck. Snickers still does the clicking sounds only when moving. He is Still active, and still eating. I don't see any bubbly mucus in his mouth. The Saliva isn't stringy. Not sure what Else to do. looks like I will have to go back to the Vet and do the Culture test.

 

[sandrachameleon]

while I can understand increasing temperature a bit for an ill chameleon, having a heat source at the bottom of the cage isnt the right way to go about it. To thermoregulate, the chameleon will want to be able to go lower in the cage to get cooler. All heat should come from above, as from the sun.

I have no direct experience with Resp infections, so have no advice specific to that.

 

[Todnedo]

Well still no luck. Snickers still does the clicking sounds only when moving. He is Still active, and still eating. I don't see any bubbly mucus in his mouth. The Saliva isn't stringy. Not sure what Else to do. looks like I will have to go back to the Vet and do the Culture test.

Try Orbax (orbifloxacin) it is very fast acting with little or no side effects.

 

[Hoj]

i was just looking quick and a few idea i have are up the temps, coil bulb for basking prob isnt great, go with reg incondescant buld say 60w shoot for 85 to 90 in the hottest basking spot.
loose the recycling water, may be recycling bacteria as well.
and loose nite time temp drop, i use a 60w ceramic heat emmiter at night for sick chams and keepr temp around 80 at the top for the night.
just some thoughts

 

[xeonic]

Thank you for the suggestions. I didn't know anyone had posted here, I thought this thread was dead. I have actually already done the things you suggested. I currently keep him under a 150W ceramic heater, his basking spot at night is about 84F that I measure with a probe thermometer. I suppose i could try Orbax (orbifloxacin). Though I am reluctant as Snickers has had this issue for quite some time now. His weight has been steady between 142G to 145G so he isnt loosing weight. And he is active. Since I have put him under a ceramic heater at night the crackeling sound has increased. Also I got rid of the recycled water a while back. Its fresh water daily now.

 

[Dr O]

I've been asked to chime in here. There's basically a few points I can confirm and clarify.

Humidity from the glass was extremely likely to be the source, I absolutely agree. That jumped right out at me and I would have told you to change it on our first exam.

As for this:

Update:
I spoke with my Vet today as the Chloramphenical has not been working. We will be switching to Baytril, only after I refused the culture test as I was advised it's going to cost $450.00. I was advised they don't want to do a trachea swab as it will be inaccurate due to bacteria in the mouth. And that my Vet want's to sedate my chameleon. pump fluid into his lungs and suck it back out to do a culture test. which apparently is going to cost me $450.00. Has anyone asked how their Vet does a culture test? I'm very frustrated at this point.

It is absolutely 100% correct. This is something that we would do on every species that we see--I've done it on dogs, cats, horses, cows, snakes, lizards, turtles, mice, rabbits, ferrets, and on and on. It's a straightforward, very diagnostic and informative procedure. And MD's do variations of it to humans with pneumonia. So the information is correct.

The reason that we can't just swab at the trachea or something is that it will already be coverd with a dozen species of bacteria, most of them normal, and the odds are absolutely UNLIKELY that we would even get the right bug on the part that we get back. So we have to sedate (how else can I do this 100% sterile procedure with an awake, thrashing, salivating lizard?), slide a sterile tube down their trachea until we're just at or better yet, in the lungs. Take a calculated dose of sterile saline, squirt it down the tube into the lungs, some coupage (thump the chest some to break up some mucous. Lightly tap the lung of a sedated chameleon, turn him from side to side), withdraw as much as you can back into the syringe (only about 10-15% of the original dose typically comes back; the rest, being isotonic saline, has already been absorbed through the lung wall and is in the bloodstream just as if you had given a mini-IV), inspect the fluid and smile when you see a big floating yellow or green goober because that means that you got the bug, send it off to the lab for culture & sensitivity and wait for the exceedingly helpful information as to what the bacteria is that is causing the problem (so that way I know what that genus of bacteria typically does; what other areas of the body it may infect, and how it typically damages the host) and a very thorough report of which antibiotics at what doses killed this bug. With that knowledge along with corrected husbandry issue we will kill the source of the problem. Sounds great, right? Well, usually is, usually…

But sometimes you get back a report that shows no growth of bacteria. Or you pull back that syringe and perfectly clear saline comes back at you. Because sometimes the bacteria are dead already, and may have been for some time. And you're dealing with the leftover damage; scar tissue, fibrosis, bullae, broken-down walls, extra-thickened walls, whatever. And that click that you hear may be a flap of scar tissue in minimally damaged--->majorly damaged lung ( an X-ray will sometimes tell me the extent of the damage) and not fixable with any amount of antibiotics on the earth. So continuing to just try and try various antibiotics and different dosages is a waste of time, money, and is unhealthy for your chameleon.

But maybe the click you hear IS the booger bubble that holds the answer, and if you can afford it, then you should really really do it, and sooner rather than later. I have seen too many instances where I've killed the bug, but sometimes the leftover damage still proves too much and we lose them a few weeks or months later; I always confirm it on necropsy when I can.


So to the person who said "ugh, that sounds terrible", its actually not. It's a fantastic, useful, highly sensitive and specific tool. ;-)

What really is terrible is when it's a big animal, and theres no sterile tube made to reach 3' into the lungs safely, you have to do things like lightly sedate a great dane, put him on his chest with his head looking up, clip and prep the neck area, make an incision through the skin and then do this godawful wrenching, levering through the cartilage of the trachea so that you can insert your tube from there to get your sterile sample. Freaks me out everytime.

dr. o-

 

[xeonic]

Thank you for your input. And I wish it was only $450.00. not sure why the original quote was $450.00, its now over $700.00. Anyways the chameleon has made it for 3 mons with the issue I don't think the infection is still there as he is active, and eating + gaining weight.

 

[Dr O]

I should mention for the record that I teach at a veterinary technician program, so that is why I tend to be so descriptive. I just like to teach!

o-

 

[Dr O]

If I had given you an estimate at my modestly priced New York hospital that I own, it probably would have been in the $350-$400 range. And half of that money would be going straight to the lab for all of the diagnostic tests that were ordered.

o-

 

[xeonic]

That's awesum that you teach veterinary. Be as descriptive as you like, The more you tell us the more we get to learn. Glad to have you on the forums.

 

[Dr O]

Thanks for saying that. When I reread the post it seemed a little overreaching perhaps and I didn't want anyone to think that I was just mouthing off knowledge for the sake of it. One of my signatures on my email says when you stop learning, you stop living.

o-

 

[xeonic]

Thanks for saying that. When I reread the post it seemed a little overreaching perhaps and I didn't want anyone to think that I was just mouthing off knowledge for the sake of it. One of my signatures on my email says when you stop learning, you stop living.

o-

Well I asked you for your opinion, And I'm glad to hear your full opinion, and not just part of it.