Sad Update

[dinothechameleon]

Hi everyone. I have a sad update to give you all. Yesterday I gave my chameleon to a reptile rescue. He wasn't thriving in my care and I did EVERYTHING possible to get him to eat. He showed many signs of sickness such as sleeping during the day, not eating, hanging out at the bottom of the cage, not moving at all during the day. I knew that I had to give him to professionals to give him a shot at life. I did everything possible but I just couldn't help him.

 

[Thompson]

as long as you gave him to people who know what they're doing then you did good. Were there gaps in the way you've approached your husbandry that led to this?

 

[JoXie411]

I am very sorry to hear this but sometimes the right thing to do is admit when we are lost. Maybe later on you can get another one and have someone help you get your care perfected by that time.

 

[dinothechameleon]

as long as you gave him to people who know what they're doing then you did good. Were there gaps in the way you've approached your husbandry that led to this?

There was not. Everyone on here approved my care and I took all of their suggestions. No one really knew what was really wrong with him, either.

 

[Thompson]

There was not. Everyone on here approved my care and I took all of their suggestions. No one really knew what was really wrong with him, either.

I quickly glanced at the posts and it appears as though you had a Cham who was highly stressed out. In the pics you provided he looks stressed and probably a bit underweight. I'm gonna look over them again to see if you went over your husbandry.

 

[Thompson]

Yea I'm not seeing any discussion on your husbandry only that "others have given you the ok" on your husbandry. Could you fill out the how to ask for help form the best you can and tell us how you housed/fed your baby Cham while he was in your care? Just want to double check. That way if you had any issues there that might have led to the health issue you experienced in your Cham, you'll have had it fixed and good to go for the next chameleon if you choose to get another.

 

[GrayMadder]

Yea I'm not seeing any discussion on your husbandry only that "others have given you the ok" on your husbandry. Could you fill out the how to ask for help form the best you can and tell us how you housed/fed your baby Cham while he was in your care? Just want to double check. That way if you had any issues there that might have led to the health issue you experienced in your Cham, you'll have had it fixed and good to go for the next chameleon if you choose to get another.

Hello everyone! I hope you are all having an amazing day and I am so happy to be a part of this beautiful community! I recently got a chameleon 4 days ago and I wanted to post everything about his husbandry to ensure that I am doing everything correctly. I will post details of my husbandry and chameleon below.

Age: 3 months old
Sex: Male panther chameleon
Basking temperature: 80 degrees Fahrenheit
Humidity levels: 45 (I ordered plastic shower curtains so I can put it on the sides of his enclosure to increase humidity levels)
Feeders: Dubia roaches, waxworms, hornworms, and BSFL
Supplements: Calcium without D3 (I use this 6 days a week), calcium with D3, I use this every other week for one day, and a multivitamin( I use this every other week for one day)
UVB light: Linear T5 HO 5.0
Frequency and amount of food: Once a day, 10-15 feeders (at least planning to since he won't eat yet)
Cage size: 2 feet x 2 feet x 4 feet

My main concern is that my chameleon is not eating. I am aware this is normal when you first receive a chameleon, but what is the norm of when you first get your chameleon of it not eating. 2-3 days? 4-5? I see him drinking water which I am quite happy about, but I cannot get him to eat. I free ranged a hornworm him and he very obviously could see it, but he didn't eat it. I left him alone for a couple of hours because I know they are shy eaters but when I came back he still didn't eat it. I put a couple of dubias and waxworms in a bowl hanging in his enclosure and he did not eat it. (I will put photos below so you can better understand what I mean). I am concerned that he does not know his food is in his bowl. I mean, how is he automatically supposed to know that his food will be in his bowl? What if he is hungry but he just isn't looking in the bowls direction so he is just starving? Please give me advice and suggestions. Here are pictures of his enclosure and feeders. (I did not include a picture of his waxworms because they are exactly one half of the size of the hornworm. Also, I just put the hornworm in his bowl with no supplement just so you guys could see the size. In the picture of his enclosure you can see the bowl on the top left of his cage.)

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Please give me suggestions to better improve my husbandry and help me to get him to eat! Thank you!!

Welcome! My feedback and any questions will be in red. I’ll also post helpful links and care images at the end.

Hello everyone! I hope you are all having an amazing day and I am so happy to be a part of this beautiful community! I recently got a chameleon 4 days ago and I wanted to post everything about his husbandry to ensure that I am doing everything correctly. I will post details of my husbandry and chameleon below.

Age: 3 months old
Sex: Male panther chameleon
Basking temperature: 80 degrees Fahrenheit What type of basking bulb do you use? Do you use any other lights besides his basking and UVB bulbs? Or anything at night? How do you measure his temps? What are the ambient and nighttime temps? What is the schedule for his lights?
Humidity levels: 45 (I ordered plastic shower curtains so I can put it on the sides of his enclosure to increase humidity levels) How do you measure it? What are his nighttime levels?
Feeders: Dubia roaches, waxworms, hornworms, and BSFL What do you gutload with, and how do you do it? There’s feeder and gutload charts below. Variety for both is best!
Supplements: Calcium without D3 (I use this 6 days a week), calcium with D3, I use this every other week for one day, and a multivitamin( I use this every other week for one day) Does your multivitamin contain D3? Which type of Vitamin A is in it (preformed- retinol or proformed- beta carotene)?
UVB light: Linear T5 HO 5.0 How far away is his basking branch from the UVB bulb?
Frequency and amount of food: Once a day, 10-15 feeders (at least planning to since he won't eat yet) At that age, give him as much as he’ll eat.
Cage size: 2 feet x 2 feet x 4 feet

He might not be eating from his bowl because he’s not used to it, try placing the roaches on a branch. I’d also switch out his feeding bowl for one with a non-reflective surface, as they don’t like looking at other chameleons (even if it’s a reflection of himself). Make sure all feeders are appropriately sized, too. Could you fill out the rest of these categories as well, please?

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

My main concern is that my chameleon is not eating. I am aware this is normal when you first receive a chameleon, but what is the norm of when you first get your chameleon of it not eating. 2-3 days? 4-5? I see him drinking water which I am quite happy about, but I cannot get him to eat. I free ranged a hornworm him and he very obviously could see it, but he didn't eat it. I left him alone for a couple of hours because I know they are shy eaters but when I came back he still didn't eat it. I put a couple of dubias and waxworms in a bowl hanging in his enclosure and he did not eat it. (I will put photos below so you can better understand what I mean). I am concerned that he does not know his food is in his bowl. I mean, how is he automatically supposed to know that his food will be in his bowl? What if he is hungry but he just isn't looking in the bowls direction so he is just starving? Please give me advice and suggestions. Here are pictures of his enclosure and feeders. (I did not include a picture of his waxworms because they are exactly one half of the size of the hornworm. Also, I just put the hornworm in his bowl with no supplement just so you guys could see the size. In the picture of his enclosure you can see the bowl on the top left of his cage.)

Here’s informative and helpful links and care images:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/external-resources/
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/
https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
https://www.madcham.de/en/
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/
https://flchams.com/chameleon-safe-plant-list/

Here was a couple of the previous husbandry reviews from the OP.

I'm sorry that you had to make that decision, but at least you know you that the new owners are knowledgeable and may be able to help!

 

[dinothechameleon]

Yea I'm not seeing any discussion on your husbandry only that "others have given you the ok" on your husbandry. Could you fill out the how to ask for help form the best you can and tell us how you housed/fed your baby Cham while he was in your care? Just want to double check. That way if you had any issues there that might have led to the health issue you experienced in your Cham, you'll have had it fixed and good to go for the next chameleon if you choose to get another.

I filled out the sheet before and everyone said it was okay after they told me to make a few adjustments which I did. I fed him BSFL, crickets, dubias. I did free ranging, I bought a feeder run, cupfed, handfed, his favorite way of eating was cupfeeding.

 

[Thompson]

any pics of his cage? Temp readings, placement of lights on top of cage and the distance from his basking branch? The one pic of him on the Schefflera leaf under what appears to be the UVB light looks like he is both stressed and trying to bask under the UVB light. Or he was dark because he was cold. I'm seeing stressed though... on all pics of him you provided. Initially the move to his new cage will stress him out and he might not eat for a couple of days while he adjusts. If he hasn't eaten after a week of you having him I'd begin to worry. Should've tried getting a fecal done on him to rule out parasites. You could use a solarmeter as well to accurately assess UVB levels throughout his cage so you know for sure he's getting the right amount in his cage, artificially. The t5 bulbs are intense and can be too much for baby Chams eyes when placed directly on top of their cage (especially if the fixture ha a reflector in the dome), and you could be blasting him with high radiation without knowing. On the contrary, you could've been providing him the exact opposite and not enough and both situations would affect appetite/eating, and ultimately growth rate. Young Chams at this age are sensitive and malnourishment (from lack of food or vitamins like d3 or A) can stunt their growth.

If you got him and he was alert, active, and did not initially show signs of sleeping during the day until after you moved him into his new cage, then the issue likely lies somewhere in your husbandry that you thought you had under control at first, but actually didn't (UVB levels, temp, humidity) and along with the stress of moving, a cage with inadequate plant cover and branches, and a lack of privacy could lead to a stressed out chameleon, living in an inadequate environment, to slowly deteriorate and potentially die from prolonged stress and a lack of things like d3 and supplements, or the appropriate amount and size feeders (as well as gutload provided to these feeders. I.e. too much protein can lead to gout in chameleons)

I would look over your husbandry while going over the different modules in the chameleon academy to see where you may have faltered in your husbandry because all signs point to something being wrong w/ husbandry for why he deteriorated in your care so quickly. Unless he was already lethargic when you purchased him, then it was something he sustained while under the care of whoever you bought him from and this is why you want to buy from reputable breeders (especially those who sponsor the forum).

Next time, also, an experienced vet who has worked with chameleons and knows their physiology/anatomy well could've been your saving grace herein diagnosing his issue and fixing it without you having to give him away. I'm not sure if the rescue u gave him to is the one who can give him medical attention or if they even tried bringing him to a vet to get treated. You did not describe a chameleon who sounded like they were going to die immediantly, just a sick chameleon who was experiencing worsening symptoms, likely because the issue to hiss husbandry was never fixed.

Anyway.. that's my 2 cents on the matter. I'm hoping he's still alive... and getting the help he needs to get back on his feet.

 

[dinothechameleon]

any pics of his cage? Temp readings, placement of lights on top of cage and the distance from his basking branch? The one pic of him on the Schefflera leaf under what appears to be the UVB light looks like he is both stressed and trying to bask under the UVB light. Or he was dark because he was cold. I'm seeing stressed though... on all pics of him you provided. Initially the move to his new cage will stress him out and he might not eat for a couple of days while he adjusts. If he hasn't eaten after a week of you having him I'd begin to worry. Should've tried getting a fecal done on him to rule out parasites. You could use a solarmeter as well to accurately assess UVB levels throughout his cage so you know for sure he's getting the right amount in his cage, artificially. The t5 bulbs are intense and can be too much for baby Chams eyes when placed directly on top of their cage (especially if the fixture ha a reflector in the dome), and you could be blasting him with high radiation without knowing. On the contrary, you could've been providing him the exact opposite and not enough and both situations would affect appetite/eating, and ultimately growth rate. Young Chams at this age are sensitive and malnourishment (from lack of food or vitamins like d3 or A) can stunt their growth.

If you got him and he was alert, active, and did not initially show signs of sleeping during the day until after you moved him into his new cage, then the issue likely lies somewhere in your husbandry that you thought you had under control at first, but actually didn't (UVB levels, temp, humidity) and along with the stress of moving, a cage with inadequate plant cover and branches, and a lack of privacy could lead to a stressed out chameleon, living in an inadequate environment, to slowly deteriorate and potentially die from prolonged stress and a lack of things like d3 and supplements, or the appropriate amount and size feeders (as well as gutload provided to these feeders. I.e. too much protein can lead to gout in chameleons)

I would look over your husbandry while going over the different modules in the chameleon academy to see where you may have faltered in your husbandry because all signs point to something being wrong w/ husbandry for why he deteriorated in your care so quickly. Unless he was already lethargic when you purchased him, then it was something he sustained while under the care of whoever you bought him from and this is why you want to buy from reputable breeders (especially those who sponsor the forum).

Next time, also, an experienced vet who has worked with chameleons and knows their physiology/anatomy well could've been your saving grace herein diagnosing his issue and fixing it without you having to give him away. I'm not sure if the rescue u gave him to is the one who can give him medical attention or if they even tried bringing him to a vet to get treated. You did not describe a chameleon who sounded like they were going to die immediantly, just a sick chameleon who was experiencing worsening symptoms, likely because the issue to hiss husbandry was never fixed.

Anyway.. that's my 2 cents on the matter. I'm hoping he's still alive... and getting the help he needs to get back on his feet.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 3 month old male panther chameleon and has been in my care for one month
• Handling - During the one month I had him probably about 3 times.
• Feeding - I fed him BSFL, dubias, and crickets. I gutloaded them with sweet potatoes, carrots, and collard greens. I gave him calcium without d3 6 times a week then on the seventh day I alternated between repetitive multivitamin and calcium with d3. I tried to feed him as much as possible.
• Watering - I misted the enclosure twice a day and I would see him drink quite often.
• Fecal Description - poops looked fine.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage
• Lighting - t5 linear 5.0 uvb light and a basking light.
• Temperature - His temp during the day was around 70-75. Basking spot was 81 . I used a temperature gun to measure. His lowest temp during the day was 69 and during night it would be 66.
• Humidity - 50%. I have shower curtains on the sides to keep humidity.
• Plants - Yes all live plants pothos, money tree, fiscus, schefflera, prayer plant, spider plant, hawiian ti plant.
• Placement - Not near nay fans, air vents, or high traffic areas.
• Location - California

Also I do have a solarmeter and it read 3.0.

 

[Thompson]

I filled out the sheet before and everyone said it was okay after they told me to make a few adjustments which I did. I fed him BSFL, crickets, dubias. I did free ranging, I bought a feeder run, cupfed, handfed, his favorite way of eating was cupfeeding.

IF he cup feeds I'm not sure why you free-ranged food items then. If you had live plants in the cage left uncovered, dubia roaches and crickets like to hide in the soil and if he catches sight of them moving in the soil, he could easily eat a clump of soil by accident while trying to capture the bugs. If you had the soil covered

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 3 month old male panther chameleon and has been in my care for one month

is he from a pet store or a reputable breeder ?

• Handling - During the one month I had him probably about 3 times.
• Feeding - I fed him BSFL, dubias, and crickets. I gutloaded them with sweet potatoes, carrots, and collard greens. I gave him calcium without d3 6 times a week then on the seventh day I alternated between repetitive multivitamin and calcium with d3. I tried to feed him as much as possible.

Brand of supplements used? Size of crickets and dubia roaches matter as well. For my 3 month olds I feed 12-16 small dubia roaches 6x a week. sometimes I let them pig out beyond that if they continue to eat or appear interested in eating more.

Also, where did you buy his crickets from? Some pet stores can sell crickets housed in unsanitary conditions where parasites and other harmful things can grow and spread from feeder to your chameleon. Parasites may be why he was skinny and not eating, and lethargic. A fecal float should've been done, but it may have been difficult to get one when he refused to eat and likely wasn't pooping much. Did you find any of his poop while you had him? If you had trouble finding fresh poop each day then you should consider that he didn't eat, he's having issues with digestion, he may be impacted etc.

• Watering - I misted the enclosure twice a day and I would see him drink quite often.

for how long and at what times? This doesn't seem enough to reach required humidity levels in his cage throughout the day and over night. I have a mistking which I run 3-4x a day. The morning session is 5 minutes long, 30 mins after lights come on. The afternoon sessions are 3 mins long. and the night session is 6-8 mins long 30 mins before lights go out to ensure higher humidity throughout the night --> helps hydrate your Cham and I've noticed my Chams don't drink so much every session but maintain white urates and healthy eyes.

• Fecal Description - poops looked fine.

vague answer again. Need you to be specific. photos are best

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage
• Lighting - t5 linear 5.0 uvb light and a basking light.

wattage of bulb? inches the uvb fixture is from top of cage and basking branch? Does the uvb dome fixture have a reflector ?

• Temperature - His temp during the day was around 70-75. Basking spot was 81 . I used a temperature gun to measure. His lowest temp during the day was 69 and during night it would be 66.

Temp guns measure surface temp not ambient temp and you might want to get a digital thermometer/hydrometer next time around. I tie the probe around the spot under the basking bulb that's hottest to gauge basking temps and use a separate one to measure ambient temps. It's 70 degrees in my room rn but actually is cooler in my chameleons cage where its darker and more covered with foliage at the bottom of the cage due to misting sessions.

• Humidity - 50%. I have shower curtains on the sides to keep humidity.

you want humidity to fluctuate between 40-80% throughout the day. Should not read 50% immediantly after misting sessions. Should read upwards of 90-100% humidity after a good thorough spraying of the plants in his cage. Allow the cage to dry and humidity to drop back down in the 50s and 60s, and allow air to flow through the cage so that stagnant air doesn't accumulate. This could lead to RI's and other nasty things.

• Plants - Yes all live plants pothos, money tree, fiscus, schefflera, prayer plant, spider plant, hawiian ti plant.
• Placement - Not near nay fans, air vents, or high traffic areas.

I have a fan that provides airflow

• Location - California

Also I do have a solarmeter and it read 3.0.

which one? 6.5? and if that was the case, your lighting situation wasn't the issue most likely.

 

[jannb]

Would you mind sharing which rescue you gave him to?

 

[dinothechameleon]

Would you mind sharing which rescue you gave him to?

reptile rapture.

 

[dinothechameleon]

IF he cup feeds I'm not sure why you free-ranged food items then. If you had live plants in the cage left uncovered, dubia roaches and crickets like to hide in the soil and if he catches sight of them moving in the soil, he could easily eat a clump of soil by accident while trying to capture the bugs. If you had the soil covered

is he from a pet store or a reputable breeder ?

Brand of supplements used? Size of crickets and dubia roaches matter as well. For my 3 month olds I feed 12-16 small dubia roaches 6x a week. sometimes I let them pig out beyond that if they continue to eat or appear interested in eating more.

Also, where did you buy his crickets from? Some pet stores can sell crickets housed in unsanitary conditions where parasites and other harmful things can grow and spread from feeder to your chameleon. Parasites may be why he was skinny and not eating, and lethargic. A fecal float should've been done, but it may have been difficult to get one when he refused to eat and likely wasn't pooping much. Did you find any of his poop while you had him? If you had trouble finding fresh poop each day then you should consider that he didn't eat, he's having issues with digestion, he may be impacted etc.

for how long and at what times? This doesn't seem enough to reach required humidity levels in his cage throughout the day and over night. I have a mistking which I run 3-4x a day. The morning session is 5 minutes long, 30 mins after lights come on. The afternoon sessions are 3 mins long. and the night session is 6-8 mins long 30 mins before lights go out to ensure higher humidity throughout the night --> helps hydrate your Cham and I've noticed my Chams don't drink so much every session but maintain white urates and healthy eyes.

vague answer again. Need you to be specific. photos are best

wattage of bulb? inches the uvb fixture is from top of cage and basking branch? Does the uvb dome fixture have a reflector ?

Temp guns measure surface temp not ambient temp and you might want to get a digital thermometer/hydrometer next time around. I tie the probe around the spot under the basking bulb that's hottest to gauge basking temps and use a separate one to measure ambient temps. It's 70 degrees in my room rn but actually is cooler in my chameleons cage where its darker and more covered with foliage at the bottom of the cage due to misting sessions.

you want humidity to fluctuate between 40-80% throughout the day. Should not read 50% immediantly after misting sessions. Should read upwards of 90-100% humidity after a good thorough spraying of the plants in his cage. Allow the cage to dry and humidity to drop back down in the 50s and 60s, and allow air to flow through the cage so that stagnant air doesn't accumulate. This could lead to RI's and other nasty things.

I have a fan that provides airflow

which one? 6.5? and if that was the case, your lighting situation wasn't the issue most likely.

he did cup feed and i did free range some bugs because i wanted to give him multiple options at all times. he did cupfeed but only ate about 3 bugs each time but usually he never ate. I bought him from a breeder, robersonreptiles. i bought all his food from josh's frogs, they were 1/4 inch. dubais were about the size of my pinky nail. i misted until the entire enclosure had water dropelets on it, so it was pretty saturated. yes after misting humidity was about 90%. poop was small and slimy like and brown. wattage of bulb is 75w. uvb was about 10 inches from basking branch, maybe 12. the uvb dome does not have a relfecotr. yes the 6.5.