Sending people to other sites doesn't further discussion here

[JacksJill]

Don't get me wrong I believe there are a great number of useful sources of information all across the internet. I really like what Bill has done with the Chameleon Academy and his podcast series. That said I keep seeing a disturbing trend of people answering simple questions with a recommendation to look there. Why not just quote or paraphrase the information here and site the source. Sending people away doesn't further discussions here. If we all just follow one care sheet like it's cannon nothing new can be learned ideas will not be exchanged.

Forum definition: a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

 

[snitz427]

I agree - and you’ll also see that when such things are discussed here, well-known keepers and “experts” have very lively discussions, and sometimes disagreements, on each others recommendations.

While these discussions can sometimes be aggravating or entertaining, they are always educational. I have learned more from the discussions than I have from reading a piece of paper that has been regurgitated. I walk away with a better understanding and various points of view - so that I can form my own opinion and practice.

 

[jamest0o0]

I was thinking this just the other day for a second, why come here if we're just redirecting somewhere else. Then I said to myself, well most of the time I see people recommending it, it's to complete newbs that have done little to no research. Almost every forum about things will direct people somewhere to get a foundation of knowledge. From there the specifics can be discussed on a forum.

 

[jamest0o0]

And honestly, the more frustrating thing IMO is the people with little to no experience regurgitating things they hear as fact and then telling it to other keepers. Furthering the BS out there.

Mealworms
Substrate impaction
Humidity
Wild insects
Heavy misting or misting with lights(new one)
Etc....

Things that immediately come to mind which regularly get brought up in some form as problematic by people that have never experienced, or known anyone that's experienced problems from them. Sure, some of them are discussion worthy depending on the situation, but I get sick of seeing things put out there as fact without any reason, other than someone else said it.

 

[JacksJill]

Say what you will here but if it's not from your experience site your source in some way. I get people wanting to help others but one size doesn't fit all.
If I drop a care sheet on someone who leaped with out looking I always offer up the option to discuss any details they need help with when they get to that point.

 

[jamest0o0]

Say what you will here but if it's not from your experience site your source in some way. I get people wanting to help others but one size doesn't fit all.
If I drop a care sheet on someone who leaped with out looking I always offer up the option to discuss any details they need help with when they get to that point.

Agreed. My own set up ATM is about as unconventional as it gets for chameleons(works for my situation), yet my boy is growing, hydrated, healthy poop, no health problems.

 

[Highway61]

Agreed. My own set up ATM is about as unconventional as it gets for chameleons(works for my situation), yet my boy is growing, hydrated, healthy poop, no health problems.

I learned a looooooong time ago to never argue with success

 

[Ramrod]

Agreed. My own set up ATM is about as unconventional as it gets for chameleons(works for my situation), yet my boy is growing, hydrated, healthy poop, no health problems.

Totally agree. It is very possible to achieve exellent results using unconventional methods. (If it's not broke; don't fix it)

 

[JacksJill]

I'm not saying people should wander off of the map. There are established parameters that need to be met. A keeper in Arizona is going to have to use different methods to achieve them than someone in Florida.

 

[Beman]

I do happen to refer to the chameleon academy husbandry program quite frequently. But it is never because I do not want to help. It is always because I want them to go there so they can get a basic understanding of husbandry explained in much more depth than I am able to offer in this environment. Also I can not go through that amount of feedback with every person. As is I already load them with info with their help form.

Since I do focus on newbies in the forum with Panthers and Veileds, I need them to really understand what I am trying to explain since I fully go through the husbandry form.

I have seen lately were some people are only giving a link and I do not agree with that. But most of us regulars that have been here a bit come in with explanation, links, and follow up for them to let us know what questions they have. This provides the education and starts the conversation.

I am also seeing a lot of newbies commenting on species they do not even have rather then tagging a keeper that does have them and the experience to go with it.

Or newbies going against feedback of other more established members which just confuses the OP and then they do not know what to believe or not.

When you are new it is easy to think you really know. Unfortunately you do not learn until you experience more and have a strong base of hands on experience. You do not understand the line between many ways being effective and there being one way for everything. @jamest0o0 taught me that actually. He always challenged my eager learning mind with other ways to achieve the same results. @JacksJill saved me when I had to deal with coccidia. Learning from those here that have much more knowledge than I do has been the key to me be being successful in this hobby. There are many times I read through threads and do not contribute. I may tag someone but I do not actively give feedback because it is not something that I truly have real answers for. I learn more this way.

 

[JacksJill]

^^ All good points.
I'm on a lot of fb groups and the trend there is now to send any questions to the care sheet or a PM with an admin. Now they just meme each other to death. I would hate to see that here.

 

[Beman]

^^ All good points.
I'm on a lot of fb groups and the trend there is now to send any questions to the care sheet or a PM with an admin. Now they just meme each other to death. I would hate to see that here.

Agreed I am on 2 fb groups and that is what I see as well. I do like that we give group feedback here. Honestly I think people are able to see different aspects and provide valuable feedback. The FB groups get a little cray cray with people and their random comments. Maybe that is why they are starting to pair a new member with an admin. But dang I would not want to do that all the time. I do help people privately but not on that kind of scale lol.

 

[jamest0o0]

Welcome back @Beman hope all is well with you

 

[jamest0o0]

Oh another one that gets me... bacteria! It will kill all of us and our chameleons! Which bacteria, who knows, it's just all bad and out to get us. And don't forget to flame treat everything that goes into your enclosure or parasites will abduct your children.

 

[kinyonga]

@JacksJill said..."A keeper in Arizona is going to have to use different methods to achieve them than someone in Florida"...good point.

 

[JacksJill]

Bacteria are on every surface of just about everything. All bacteria are not created equal. Most of the more dangerous with a couple of exceptions are fairly easy to kill without flaming everything to the ground. Some moderate precautions can prevent some common zoonotic diseases. In the wild sun, wind and rain and competition with other bacteria would reduce bacterial counts. I support bioactive projects in their attempt to recreate this. I think people who are not ready or able to make the switch to bioactive may need to take more precautions.
I know we don't entirely agree on this subject but we are not that far apart.

 

[jamest0o0]

Bacteria are on every surface of just about everything. All bacteria are not created equal. Most of the more dangerous with a couple of exceptions are fairly easy to kill without flaming everything to the ground. Some moderate precautions can prevent some common zoonotic diseases. In the wild sun, wind and rain and competition with other bacteria would reduce bacterial counts. I support bioactive projects in their attempt to recreate this. I think people who are not ready or able to make the switch to bioactive may need to take more precautions.
I know we don't entirely agree on this subject but we are not that far apart.

The main component of bioactivity is the bacteria in the soil. If you get something moldy, you can throw 'living' soil over it and it will break it down, even without a clean up crew. I'm about to get some fancy new critters I haven't revealed, I sterilized my soil/leaf litter because these critters are sensitive to some fungi. So right now I have the substrate in a humid bin recolonizing the bacteria, cycling it like an aquarium. What shows up with no bacteria present? All types of molds, everywhere. I'll know it's safe for use and filled with good bacteria when the mold on the cork, soil, and leaves disappears. This only happens after sterilizing things.

 

[nightanole]

A professional will be able to explain it much better than my monkey speak. im not going to rewrite the article in my own words.

But i only refer if the article has a chart etc that i can not create in a post. And i feel dirty about just ripping off the chart and posting it in the thread.

But its kinda dumb to have "is my veiled a boy or girl" and just post a 1 liner of how to sex a veiled

 

[snitz427]

The main component of bioactivity is the bacteria in the soil. If you get something moldy, you can throw 'living' soil over it and it will break it down, even without a clean up crew. I'm about to get some fancy new critters I haven't revealed, I sterilized my soil/leaf litter because these critters are sensitive to some fungi. So right now I have the substrate in a humid bin recolonizing the bacteria, cycling it like an aquarium. What shows up with no bacteria present? All types of molds, everywhere. I'll know it's safe for use and filled with good bacteria when the mold on the cork, soil, and leaves disappears. This only happens after sterilizing things.

I think that overtime the term bioactive has been altered to fit the hobby. There’s the scientific explanation, which really does fit the goal of a bio active set up, and then there is the generally accepted explanation which is more or less to have a substrate, cleanup crew, and live plants.

The coolest thing about bioactive, in my opinion, is that you only need to provide a few basic things and then the tank will flourish on its own. New life will emerge that you did not intentionally introduce… And that’s a really cool thing. I have had wasps appear in my bio active enclosure without any clue how they got there. Fungus blooms, indicating a healthy soil. Milipedes Thats sneak in on Plants. All good things which have all helped to create a balanced, mini ecosystem. I really like when people make small terrariums and they seal in a small plant, and maybe some spring towels… And seal off the jar. The plant will survive infinitely, so long as you provide good light, without ever needing to crack the seal again.

Bio active is really cool, but I think people really overthink it and that’s what scares them away. If you touch on the basics the rest will come.

 

[jamest0o0]

I think that overtime the term bioactive has been altered to fit the hobby. There’s the scientific explanation, which really does fit the goal of a bio active set up, and then there is the generally accepted explanation which is more or less to have a substrate, cleanup crew, and live plants.

The coolest thing about bioactive, in my opinion, is that you only need to provide a few basic things and then the tank will flourish on its own. New life will emerge that you did not intentionally introduce… And that’s a really cool thing. I have had wasps appear in my bio active enclosure without any clue how they got there. Fungus blooms, indicating a healthy soil. Milipedes Thats sneak in on Plants. All good things which have all helped to create a balanced, mini ecosystem. I really like when people make small terrariums and they seal in a small plant, and maybe some spring towels… And seal off the jar. The plant will survive infinitely, so long as you provide good light, without ever needing to crack the seal again.

Bio active is really cool, but I think people really overthink it and that’s what stairs them away. If you touch on the basics the rest will come.

Couldn't agree more. I've had mushrooms pop up, some spiders, centipedes, millipedes, beetles, just so much that makes a beautiful balanced eco system. It's not complicated to recreate, I had several bio cham enclosures with just about an inch of soil lol. They worked as well as anything, of course plants had to be potted still, but it kept things clean.