Sick Female Veiled Chameleon

[KylieH]

I purchased a female veiled chameleon from my local Petco one
week ago, along with a male. I had to return him because they failed to mention he has a serious eating issue and showed previous signs of MBD. The female acted fine.

Your chemeleon- female veiled chameleon. Told she is 2 months. I have had her for seven days.

Handling- as soon as i got her home i put her in her terrarium to let her calm and get used to her new surroundings. The third day i held her because she never hissed or changed to gravid colors. She got on my hand no issue and immediately climbed to my head and sat there. Ive only handled her two more times after and that was to clean her coconut bedding after she shed.(she got every last bit off with the help of misting.)

Feeding- she is fed 12 small crickets daily. Three times a week dusted in rep-cal calcium and vitamin d3. I do not gut load the crickets since i get fresh ones every week.

Supplements- rep-cal calcium and vitamin d3 three times a week.

Watering- i am temporarily misting 30 seconds to a minute once the previous misting dries up until i get a proper drip system. I tried a pinhole in a plastic dixie cup but it still came out too quickly.

Fecal Description- solid black with white.

History- she came from a local Petco and was fine when i got her. I got a male too and he needed returned for vet treatment because they refused to tell me he has MBD when i purchased him. Not sure if its from how Petco treated them because some guy bought an iguana from there and his eyes were closed and he was walking around, petco told him iguanas sleep walk. Not true.

Cage Info:

Cage type- zoo med reptibreeze open air screen 18x18x36. I keep coconut bedding and to avoid a big mess i have a low litter box at the bottom and the live plants are blended in beside it in their own smaller planters.

Lighting- reptisun 5.0 uvb bulb 10-12hrs a day. Sometimes a basking light. And a red night lamp.

Temperature- day time 80-85 degrees fahrenheit. Night time 72-75 degrees fahrenheit.

Humidity- 60-70 during the day and 50-60 at night. I mist multiple times daily.


Plants- one live golden pothos, one live hibiscus, and a couple fake zoo med bendable vines.

Placement- inside, away from all vents, fans, no air conditioning. Low traffic area. Terrarium is 36" in height and sets on a carpeted floor.

Location- central pennsylvania.

Current Problem- my female veiled chameleon was doing good when i got her, more friendly than what i have read about with them. Ive had her for seven days and yesterday she stopped eating and i have to continuously mist her to make sure she is drinking.

She barely opens her eyes and her left one stays sunked in. she will rub her eyes on anything solid, open them for a second and then close them. Her grip is getting weak, more like she just doesnt want to grip. She just recently shed and i was told she is around 2 months. Ive read females dont usually lay eggs until 4 and a half to 6 months but i still have a proper place for her just in case.

She stays up as high as she can on plants but wont move much. Even if i open her door she wont move unless she knows my hand is near with the mister then she will immediately climb on my hand and will get mad if i try to put her back.

I have not tried force feeding because i have never done it and dont want to hurt her. I hate seeing her suffer i just want to make her as comfortable as possible since no nearby vets tend to any reptiles.

Also she will sit with her mouth open and i have noticed her scratching her veil or crest(ive heard it called both).

I hope i covered everything good enough. Any help is greatly appriceated.

 

[sharp229]

Welcome to the forums! From reading your description, the following things should be corrected:

• Supplements: You should dust the food with plain calcium (NO D3) every feeding. You should dust with calcium+d3 twice a month, and multivitamin twice a month. Alternating between calcium+d3 and multivitamin each weekend is easiest.
• Gut loading: You should gut load the insects before feeding them, even if you get them new each week
• Cage: There should be no substrate at the bottom, unless you want to use paper towels
• Lighting: UVB+Heat should be 12 hours a day. There should be no light at night (remove the red bulb)
• Temperature: Ambient temperature should be between 70-80. Basking temperature should be 85. No heating at night unless your house gets below 50, and in that case use a ceramic heater.

Does she keep her mouth open only when she is hot, or all the time? If all the time it is probably an RI. Does she hold her head up, make popping sounds, have mucous or bubbles, etc?

If her eyes are sunk in it could be caused by dehydration. If her eyes are closed all day this means she is very sick.

Most pet stores (especially Petco/Petsmart) do not know how to care for chameleons and she probably had a number of preexisting issues. The stress from moving probably brought them out even though she may have looked fine in the pet store.

Her symptoms will most likely require a vet and antibiotics. The pet stores usually have a 15 day health guarantee, so I would bring this up with them as soon as possible. Realistically, your best option is probably going to be to return her for your money back, and then buy from one of the site sponsors or someone on this forum.

You can get baby veiled chameleons from LLLReptile online for about the same price as Petsmart shipped, and they have a good reputation. There are also forum members selling baby veileds. One of these is probably your best option.

 

[Smiley]

I'm new to chameleons so I can't offer more advice, but first thing I would do is get rid of the red 'night' light, and the coconut bedding. They need darkness to sleep comfortably, and my male would sleep during the day since the previous owners kept the red light on all the time. The coconut bedding can be ingested and grow mold/bacteria.

Keep her handling to a minimum for a couple weeks. I thought my Jackson's was super friendly and liked to be handled... And then he got comfortable and tells me to F-off. It makes me sad.

I'm not sure if this is the same for veileds (and I would like to know this too for when my girl is healthy enough to eat on her own), but I think that is too much D3 in her diet, and should be used more sparingly. You also want to get a multivitamin to use even less frequently than the calcium. Also, reptiles do much better on a varied diet (roaches, crickets, blue bottle fly larva, hornworms, silkworms, seem to be a favorite. And soft-bodied worms will help with hydration). Definitely gutload your crickets!!! Use fresh dark greens and veggies that are nutritious. Even though Petco used formulated food for the crickets, a week is too long and the nutrients diminish. More bang for your buck.

If you can, place the enclosure on something to make it taller, your little one will like it.

And I'm sorry about your experience at Petco. I've been an employee at one for two years now, and I will tell you that no one is happy that we started carrying chameleons again. These are animals which should be bought from a reputable breeder or specialty store. To put it simply, not all of the associates are knowledgable about reptiles, especially advanced ones like chameleons. The set up that we have for them is not ideal, and it doesn't take inside know-how to come to that conclusion. I will also say though, that there are people who are knowledgable and care deeply about animals within the company. It's not that the employee refused to tell you, but probably that they just didn't know about it.

Call in or go to Petco tomorrow and tell them what's going on and that you want to see the veterinarian, and get that approved. Vet care should be covered for 15 days as per the contract you signed (but get approved!). She sounds kind of like my girl that I took in. I have a feeling it's from the coconut fiber and poor ventilation causing some sort of infection.

Get her looked at ASAP, though. If it is like mine then it will go down hill if you don't.

 

[KylieH]

Before i got her i did a lot of research on veiled chameleons and everything i do is what ive found and what pet stores have told me and so far nothing has stayed the same.

The red light ive been using because we have had nothing but thunder storms so it gets a little chilly inside.

I have a male too and i got him from a different pet store, not a franchise all there animals and reptiles come from independent breeders. Hes as healthy as can be.

The female leaves her mouth open once in awhile. Her eyes are closed almost all day. She will open them for a few seconds here and there, mainly the right eye, and continue to aimlessly reach her arms out feeling for something to grab. She has fallen but quickly gets back to her favorite spot. And today if she still doesnt eat it will be day three.

What is a good and safe way i can make sure she is drinking so i know shes not dehydrated?

 

[Smiley]

You can check how hydrated she is by her bowel movements. If she's dehydrated they will be yellow to dark yellow to orange. If she's really hydrated then there can/will be a clear snot like substance. This is urine that hasn't been refined and indicate good hydration, if I recall correctly. See Poop 101 on the health clinic thread. You really want to get a dripper, as some chameleons can be slow to start drinking.

Edit: and chameleons can handle significant temperature drops, and some actually prefer it. It promotes basking behavior and they are more alert during the day. Feed her in the morning or early afternoons to give her proper time to digest when she does start eating again.

 

[sharp229]

It sounds like she has a respiratory infection. She may also have a vitamin a deficiency. If you want to rescue her, you will need to have the pet store take her to a vet so she can get antibiotics.

As long as the temp does not drop below 50 at night she should be fine. The best way to get her to drink is either to use a dripper or have a mister that runs for 5 minutes or longer a few times a day.

Can you post pictures of her and her cage? The pet store care guidelines are usually inaccurate, but there are a lot of experienced people on these forums.

 

[KylieH]

Okay i will call today and get an appointment set up. With her being sick i moved her into a smaller terrarium so she wouldnt fall from really high up. I will get a more recent picture later today of her. I can put a picture of her the day before. She started the spots when we got our male, who is in his own terrarium.

 

[sharp229]

Thanks, recent closer pictures would definitely be helpful. Hard to see much of what is going on in that picture, although at least it looks like she doesn't have MBD. You should remove the substrate, and if that is a water bowl you should remove that as well. Standing water causes bacteria to build up.

If you could get pictures of both her eyes that would help a lot.

Is she able to see your male? They should not be able to see each other, so if she can see him this may be causing stress which would cause the stripes. If the cages are next to each other I would recommend using black painter's plastic to block her view of the male. It is cheap and can be found at most hardware stores.

 

[Cait0420]

Welcome to the forums! From reading your description, the following things should be corrected:

• Supplements: You should dust the food with plain calcium (NO D3) every feeding. You should dust with calcium+d3 twice a month, and multivitamin twice a month. Alternating between calcium+d3 and multivitamin each weekend is easiest.
• Gut loading: You should gut load the insects before feeding them, even if you get them new each week
• Cage: There should be no substrate at the bottom, unless you want to use paper towels
• Lighting: UVB+Heat should be 12 hours a day. There should be no light at night (remove the red bulb)
• Temperature: Ambient temperature should be between 70-80. Basking temperature should be 85. No heating at night unless your house gets below 50, and in that case use a ceramic heater.

• 
  
  I agree with all of theese corrections. You need to fix theese issues ASAP for her to live healthily

 

[KylieH]

Heres a couple from both sides.

Note: chameleon was not upside down, that is just how my camera turned it when i took a landscape view picture.

 

[KylieH]

Today i got the calcium without d3 and the multivitamin and some small mealworms.

What can i do to help her eat? Can i maybe hold a mealworm near her mouth so she can feel it wiggling and hopefully take it?

She opened her eyes a few times today, moving around more but mainly just to find a better spot to sit.

 

[sharp229]

She doesn't look too dehydrated, since her eyes are not sunken in. Also I do not see any buildup on her eyes, so it seems to me she may be keeping them closed due to a vitamin A deficiency. My veiled scratched his eyes a lot and would keep them closed and giving him vitamin A fixed the problem. See the sixth post down on the link below for info on how to provide a suitable dose of vitamin A:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/cham-keeps-closing-one-his-eyes-66576/

She will not be able to eat on her own if she is keeping her eyes closed all the time. You can try rubbing a worm or cricket on the side of her mouth gently to she if she will take it. If not, you may need to force feed her something like repta+boost or a mix of blended insects. For that you would need a syringe and it would be best if you could have the vet show you how to properly administer it.

Since it sounds like she also has a respiratory infection you will need to work with the vet to get the proper antibiotic; it seems like baytril is the most common right now.

 

[Smiley]

Try to run some warm water over her eyes and see if she will tolerate you rubbing them gently. This will help any crusty discharge to loosen abs might help with her being able to open them.

 

[KylieH]

I tried holding a worm to her mouth dusted with vitamin without d3 and she didnt take it she just backed away and buried her head in my hand.

I have a kind of off topic question. When i got her out and the male saw her he started turning orange around his eyes and puffed out real big everywhere he can. The rest of him was his normal bright turqoise and yellow. What does this mean?

Thank you for all the help. She has a vet appointment next week.

 

[sharp229]

A week is a long time to wait for the vet since chameleons can go downhill fast. I would try to get them to speed this up if possible.

If that isn't possible, I would at least give her the described vitamin A treatment and put her on a plant or branch in the shower with water bouncing off the wall on to her. The vitamin treatment can take a few days to take effect, and the shower will help her clear her eyes out. You can also use pure saline solution to help flush out her eyes.

Depending on where you live, you should be able to get standard preformed vitamin A at a local store. I was able to get it at Fred Meyer, but there are probably other stores that carry it. Application is fairly simple, all you have to do is cut the tablet open with a knife, moisten a q-tip in the gel, and then swab the bottom of her mouth quickly. Vitamin A is toxic in excess, so you want to follow the instructions in the other post.

The hardest part in both this and feeding her is getting her to open her mouth. Since you said she gapes regularly, you could take that opportunity to put a small worm in her mouth and see if she will eat it. You can also swab while it is open. Otherwise you can try to get her to open her mouth by gently pushing the side of a toothpick or credit card against the front of her mouth to see if she will open.

As for the male behavior described, did he gape or turn dark, or was he just brightly colored and puffed out? If the latter, he was probably putting on a display for her to get her to mate. If the former, he was probably just being aggressive. They also often bob their heads when they want to mate. If the reason you have a male and female is you intend to breed them at some point, just note that you should wait until they are at least a year old.

 

[KylieH]

She hasnt kept her mouth open since those three times. I gave her a good misting and she hasnt done that since.

I got the vitamin a for her. I tried getting a sooner appointment but they are completely booked.

He was very bright and bobbing his head. Hes done it since we first got him. He will even do it to humans. My fiance called him i-roc after the camaro and since hes always rocking and showing off bright colors.

Now the female no matter what she is always lime green anymore. Sometimes she will get blue spots when shes in my hand but nothing like she used to turn.

 

[sharp229]

Interesting. If she has no other signs of a respiratory infection maybe it is just a severe vitamin deficiency.

I've seen threads on here of chameleons doing the head bobbing when they get excited as well. I guess he must be easily amused When veileds are young they are generally bright green when they are not stressed, the other markings are usually caused by stress. So at least it sounds like she is not stressed about anything.

I hope she gets better soon, and keep us updated.

 

[Lovereps]

Hi Kylie, Sorry to hear your cham is having health problems.
If she was my cham, what I would do until she sees the vet is to rinse her eyes with a saline solution as described here:https://www.chameleonforums.com/saline-solution-35457/

You can also very carefully give her a tiny amount of vitamin A, as described in the next linked post.
Vitamin A deficiency is a common problem and you can read this #6 in this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/cham-keeps-closing-one-his-eyes-66576/ for more details on what to do.
Be careful with the vitamin A because , as mentioned, it is harmful when too much is given.

Phoenixworms/Calciworms are very wiggly feeders which can entice chams to eat but she won't be eating until her eyes open.

Another possible cause of eye troubles is too strong a UVB bulb. Your cham is a baby and the bulb may be too strong for her at 2 months of age.
The coiled compact fluorescents seem to be a culprit in many cases.
You can shut of the UVB for 3-4 days and if she is opening her eyes more, you can then either raise the bulb up higher to lessen the amount of UVB she gets or change to a long, tube type Reptisun 5.0 if you've been using the compact coil type of bulb.

I hope this info helps you to get her on the road to recovery.

 

[KylieH]

I will. Thank you for the advice. He does, if my 1 yr old daughter gets in his view he immediately gets really bright and starts bobbing and she will start giggling and he just gets more colorful and rocks a lot.

 

[KylieH]

Thought i would update that today she opened her eyes and ate herself. It was beautiful out today so i took her out for fresh air and sunlight and she perked right up. As soon as i got her back inside she went straight to eating.