Sick Nosybe - Help please

[TegaCaymen]

I have a 12mth old male panther Nosybe who just became very sick, flailing about and falling. have isolated to smaller mesh enclosure with towel on bottom, pothos, fake pothos, spraying water/dripping on leaves. Ate up until 6/22. Never before any issues. My regular herp vet is out for a week for a funeral. Backup has started Baytril orals yesterday. Inlaws transported but did not take a stool sample (doing that today). Breeder suggested possible liquid cal supplement. Have been dusting with Calcium D3 at least weekly, multi weekly. Gut loading with Vitabites and squencher, potato, crickets from LLL fedexed bi-weekly to South Carolina. Husbandry is excellent - UVB is 18in Zoomed 5.0 2 weeks new, reptisun 100watt basking w/temp @ 95degrees. Scheffelera plant in cage, new replacement 2weeks prior. Perhaps there was some pesticide on the plant I bought @ Home Depot?? Very confused and worried. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[draetish]

The best way to get help is to fill this out. Then members can determine what might be the issue. Cal w/d3 and multi seem excessive for this age of cham IMO. Do you gut load, how long have you had him, etc. ?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[tkilgour]

One thing I noticed is you said..."temps at 95". A panthers basking temp should be around 85 deg. F.

 

[hondataeg6]

One thing I noticed is you said..."temps at 95". A panthers basking temp should be around 85 deg. F.

Really, I was under the impression that basking temp. for a panther is in the 70's and for veileds in the 80's.

 

[draetish]

Really, I was under the impression that basking temp. for a panther is in the 70's and for veileds in the 80's.

That is ideal for the ambient temp but they should have a spot to bask and warm themselves to help digest their food. All chameleons should have different levels of basking branches so they can chose with the closes branch 8" below the light to avoid burns. You can regulate the temp by changing the wattage of the bulb. I would say 85-90 at the closes branch would be ideal for either cham. They do have a brain that tells them when they're done basking and will then move under the UVB light.

 

[Carlton]

I don't understand the Baytril. Any obvious signs of infection? A potent unnecessary med can just add to his problems. Any swellings on the head or around his face? I'm thinking of a possible sinus or inner ear problem that interferes with coordination. Supplements seem a bit high.

 

[TegaCaymen]

My wife has handled feeding (she just informed me that she did not follow prescribed program of cal 2X/week and multi 1x/week. Her best recollection is the multi (Reptical/Herptivite) was given 3x/week; the Calcium (Repticalcium Flukers) 2x/wk. We have a CalD3 that I occasionally gave (chams are indoor) but she does not recall dusting with this.

Vet called me today. Initial half of the blood work shows Sugar is anemic @ only 15% red blood vs 26-32% normal; white blood count that should be between 4500-8800 is at minimum 16,000 and possibly as high as 22,000 (hard to tell with the anemic condition). Vet is injecting Baytril now plus one other antibiotic. Sugar is in a small enclosure and laying on his side, occasionally will stand and look around. His left eye is irritated and slightly closed. Vet is treating with drops. The other vet we saw yesterday thought it was a sinus infection (Sugar was also scratching at left side of head and cheek plus my inlaws decscribed hearing a "hissing" sound which my breeder thought could be mouth breathing) so prescribed the Baytril.

For your consideration: I have another Cham (Panther Ambilobe) in a cage adjacent to Sugar separated by a solid wood barrier. Same feeding program, same lighting 12hrs daily (new UVB's a couple weeks ago), same misting (3X daily for 3min - 11am, 2pm, 5pm via promist using Nestle bottled 5gal water) new plants a couple weeks ago. Irony is that the Scheffelera in Sugar's cage has been dying rapidly where the one in the Ambilobe cage is vibrant and healthy. Noticed no feces in Sugar's cage, 4 ea in the Ambilobe's cage.

Unfortunately I have been traveling for much of the past couple weeks and either my inlaws, wife, or kids have been watching the reptiles. We have two very healthy water dragons in another enclosure and no issues from them eating the same crickets, same dusting, and misting with same water.

 

[tkilgour]

The enclosures look great! Where did you get the flowers and are they fake?

 

[chamlover]

I hope things work out for Sugar. When i get a new plant i make sure the entire plant is washed off in case pestisides are being used. I also ask when i buy it what kind of fertilzer and/or pestisides are being used and when were they used last. You really need to find out the answers to those questions if at all possible. If not you have to assume that they were both used recently and not place them in the cage for at least a month. Then i remove all the dirt,wash the roots, and replace with organic dirt. This is especailly important with a cham species that eats greens. Good luck with him. Keep us updated.​

 

[Vegas Chad]

One thing I noticed is you said..."temps at 95". A panthers basking temp should be around 85 deg. F.

you positive on that one?

 

[TegaCaymen]

In memory of Sugar

All,

Our beloved Sugar passed this morning. We are heartbroken. This little guy brought more joy to our lives than I can ever express in the 7mo we had him. I have requested a necropsy so we can learn and hopefully improve the life of our remaining Ambilobe Mr. Biggs. I am posting the attached in memory and will promise a full disclosure report - inital tests indicate kidney failure with uric acid counts over 100 compared to ideal <10. Still suspicious of the plant and greatly appreciate the comments on proper prep and reconditioning. this is a tremendous forum and I appreciate everyone's best wishes.

God Bless

 

[draetish]

I am so sorry for your loss. You are doing the right thing by learning from it.

 

[Lancecham]

I was hoping Sugar would pull through. Sorry for the loss.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry for your loss. Its not easy to lose a pet. Sugar was beautiful.

You said that you thought it could have been to do with the plant...did you wash it (both sides of the leaves) before using it?

You also said...."Have been dusting with Calcium D3 at least weekly, multi weekly. Gut loading with Vitabites and squencher"...what are vitabites and squencher and what do they contain? I never dust more than twice a month with vitamins or any supplements containing D3.

 

[ColorCham427]

you positive on that one?

95 is too hot for a panther, but 85 isn't as hot as their option should get to be. In my opinion, 88 degrees is the best!

 

[Elizadolots]

I'm so sorry.

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

Aw man. Im so sorry for your loss. I wish you and your family the best. RIP Sugar

 

[tkilgour]

Sorry for you Loss it so terrible to have happen.

you positive on that one?

Yes I am positive on that one, I said "around 85". IMHO, The ideal basking area for a panther is around 85 -90 deg. F. Mid to high 90's starts to get to warm.

Here is one of my sources: http://www.screameleons.com/How_to_care_for_Chameleons.htm and this has worked well for me.

I understand however, that where they come from the temps are not always the same. We know it can get into the 90's in Ambilobe, Nosy be etc.

 

[Cainschams]

All,

Our beloved Sugar passed this morning. We are heartbroken. This little guy brought more joy to our lives than I can ever express in the 7mo we had him. I have requested a necropsy so we can learn and hopefully improve the life of our remaining Ambilobe Mr. Biggs. I am posting the attached in memory and will promise a full disclosure report - inital tests indicate kidney failure with uric acid counts over 100 compared to ideal <10. Still suspicious of the plant and greatly appreciate the comments on proper prep and reconditioning. this is a tremendous forum and I appreciate everyone's best wishes.

God Bless

What a bummer Sorry to hear that about your friend.

I just read this thread and when I read your first post I initially thought of gout (high uric acid) and over supplementation (could be cause of kidney failure). Possibly your family is dusting with too much powder and with the many times you dust with D3 this could be culprit for kidney failure. Dusting should be very very lightly. Most supplement panthers with a phosphorus and D3 FREE powder at most feedings and dust with vitamins and D3 once a month.

High uric acid counts is gout. Did you notice any swollen joints or other parts on him? This can be caused by gutloading with ingredients with high amounts of protein like the potatoes. I would work on what you gutload your feeders with and your supplement schedule. You may also take your other guy in for testing to make sure he is not headed down the same path.

Sorry for your loss. I hope your other guy lives a long and healthy life.