Sick veiled, sleeping all day and wobbly

N

nicolzen

New Member
Hello.

I've had my first chameleon for 5 months, she will be a 1 year old next month.

She looks sick, I noticed unusual behaviour two days ago, but yesterday I knew it was bad. She didn't have her happy, bright green colours, she was dark green, she was sleeping all day and staying in one spot, weirdly laying on a branch. Her eyes were a little sunk in, it looked like she was dehydrated. I woke her up gently and she was wobbly and overall seemed weak.

Because she looked dehydrated, I took her under a running water (the running water was gently touching the tip of her mouth) and I let her drink. She drank, which was great so I put her back in the enclosure.

The last thing I want to mention about yesterday is that she looks a little bigger, so I put a laying bin in the enclosure in case she needs to lay eggs.

Today came, she has happy colours! Bright green! And her eyes aren't sunk in anymore. But the problem is, she still sleeps all day and she doesn't want to eat... She didn't lay any eggs. I let her drink again. Her nose is tilted up so I think she might have a respiratory infection.

Even tho she looks better than yesterday, she is obviously still feeling sick and I don't want her to pass away. Our vet is open only 4 days a week (Tuesday-Friday) and I have to make an appointment first on Tuesday... Which means the appointment can be a few days later, for example on Friday and I am worried about her well being until that.

Is there anything I can do at home until the appointment? Like a liquid food formula that I can somehow stick in her mouth? Or give her a warm bath?

Thank you
 
Your Chameleon - The species: sex, and age of your chameleon: How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon:
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham:
What is the schedule:
How are you gut-loading your feeders:
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule:
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: How often and how long to you mist:
Do you see your chameleon drinking:
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites:
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using:
What is your daily lighting schedule:
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot):
Lowest overnight temp:
How do you measure these temps:
Humidity - What are your humidity levels:
How are you creating and maintaining these levels:
What do you use to measure humidity:
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? :
Placement - Where is your cage located:
Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas:
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor:
Location - Where are you geographically located:
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about:
Cage Info:
 
We need multiple pics of your chameleon, the lay bin, and the entire cage set up including the lighting on top. The member above posted the husbandry form. Copy and paste this into your reply then fill it out with as much detail as possible then post your reply.

Absolutely no warm bath. Chameleons will go into a stress shut down response with this and you can make them decline faster. No force feeding unless she has been off food for more than 2 weeks.

@MissSkittles @ERKleRose @elizaann2 Please keep an eye on this thread. I will not be on much this weekend. thanks gals!
 
cherishsgirl said:
Your Chameleon - The species: sex, and age of your chameleon: How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon:
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham:
What is the schedule:
How are you gut-loading your feeders:
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule:
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: How often and how long to you mist:
Do you see your chameleon drinking:
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites:
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using:
What is your daily lighting schedule:
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot):
Lowest overnight temp:
How do you measure these temps:
Humidity - What are your humidity levels:
How are you creating and maintaining these levels:
What do you use to measure humidity:
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? :
Placement - Where is your cage located:
Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas:
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor:
Location - Where are you geographically located:
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about:
Cage Info:
Click to expand...
Your Chameleon - The species: sex, age, how long has it been in your care --- Female veiled chameleon, 11 months old, 5 months in my care
Handling - How often --- Few times a week, but I try to not force it and let her come to me
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham --- roaches and like 4 times a month a few silworms
What is the schedule --- Misting in the morning and an hour after misting I turn on her basking lamp. The lamp is on the whole day. Misting again in the evening and lamp off. Feeding every other day
How are you gut-loading your feeders --- I give the insects vegetable
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule --- I use calcium on every feeding and every third-fourth feeding I use reptivite
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: How often and how long to you mist --- I mist by myself, in the morning and night for about 3 minutes. If the humidity gets too low, I mist during the day to get the levels up
Do you see your chameleon drinking --- In the beggining of having her, I didn't see her drink at all. I guess she was shy around me. She became used to me and drank around me sometimes. Now, the last week she drank A LOT and I found it quite weird that she's so thirsty every day.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites --- She had parasites in her poop once. We went to the vet and she healed from that. Now her poop was a little more watery. Not 100% liquid of course, but a little more slimy.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. --- She ripped off 1 of her claws somehow, so she might be in pain and it could be another part of her sickness.
Cage Type - Your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): What are the dimensions --- She has a medium sized glass enclosure right now, I know that she needs a bigger one and I'm in the process of that.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using --- She has solar UVA/UVB, 80W
What is your daily lighting schedule --- Lamp is turned on 1 hour after morning misting and turned off right before evening misting.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot) --- Basking spot 30°, floor 25°
Lowest overnight temp: --- 25°
How do you measure these temps --- thermometer with build in hygrometer
Humidity - What are your humidity levels --- During the day 30-40%, after misting about 80%
How are you creating and maintaining these levels --- If the humidity gets under 30%, I mist a little bit to get it up.
What do you use to measure humidity --- thermometer with build in hygrometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? --- pothos and ficus
Placement - Where is your cage located --- On top of a cabinet
Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas: --- I guess that it's in a place that we pass by a lot, but we move slowly so she isnt scared
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor: --- 100cm?
Location - Where are you geographically located: --- Czech republic
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about: --- chameleon not eating
Cage Info: --- glass cage
 
First pic is her healthy, second is her now. She woke up but still doesn't want to eat.
cham1.jpg
cham2.jpg
enc.jpg
 
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Beman said:
We need multiple pics of your chameleon, the lay bin, and the entire cage set up including the lighting on top. The member above posted the husbandry form. Copy and paste this into your reply then fill it out with as much detail as possible then post your reply.

Absolutely no warm bath. Chameleons will go into a stress shut down response with this and you can make them decline faster. No force feeding unless she has been off food for more than 2 weeks.

@MissSkittles @ERKleRose @elizaann2 Please keep an eye on this thread. I will not be on much this weekend. thanks gals!
Click to expand...
I’m on it
 
Thank you for sharing photos of your beautiful girl. I do think her acting slightly better today may be just the adrenaline from you handling her and getting her a drink from the running water. To hydrate your girl I would suggest some horn worms, or silk worms. You can also place ice cubes on the top of her enclosure to drip down on leaves for extra drinking opportunities.

I’m noticing some thermal burns. That heat lamp in her enclosure needs to be taken out and placed on top of the enclosure. You can do a hand test when you hold your hand on her basking branch for several minutes. If it’s too hot for your hand it will burn your girl.

Some clarifying questions: how many times a week do you feed her and how many bugs does she get each time?

What kinds of veggies to you feed your bugs?

Can you clarify your supplementation schedule? How many times a month does she get th multivitamin? Does it have D3?

Can you share a photo of her UVB light and her lay bin please? Has she laid any eggs in the past? Her current coloration is telling me she is receptive.
 
elizaann2 said:
Thank you for sharing photos of your beautiful girl. I do think her acting slightly better today may be just the adrenaline from you handling her and getting her a drink from the running water. To hydrate your girl I would suggest some horn worms, or silk worms. You can also place ice cubes on the top of her enclosure to drip down on leaves for extra drinking opportunities.

I’m noticing some thermal burns. That heat lamp in her enclosure needs to be taken out and placed on top of the enclosure. You can do a hand test when you hold your hand on her basking branch for several minutes. If it’s too hot for your hand it will burn your girl.

Some clarifying questions: how many times a week do you feed her and how many bugs does she get each time?

What kinds of veggies to you feed your bugs?

Can you clarify your supplementation schedule? How many times a month does she get th multivitamin? Does it have D3?

Can you share a photo of her UVB light and her lay bin please? Has she laid any eggs in the past? Her current coloration is telling me she is receptive.
Click to expand...
Hello :) The thermal burns are old and she already had them when I got her. It didn't heal fully. I asked the vet if something exists that would make the burns heal more but he said no, that reptiles breathe through the skin so any cream medication on the skin wouldn't really be helpful.

She didn't burn herself since I had her, I managed to put the branches down enough so that she can't burn herself. But if it's necessary I will find a way to put the lamp on top of the cage :)

I feed her every other day, for example: Monday feeding, Tuesday no feeding, Wednesday feeding again etc.
She gets 3 roaches every feeding day but I noticed that lately she only wanted 2...
I know that superworms are high in fat so I don't give her a lot. Only like 4 times a month as a "treat" I give her 3 superworms.

I breed my roaches and I give them leafy greens (romaine lettuce or iceberg lettuce) like 80% of time and the remaining 20% I give them apples.

I dust every insect I give her. I use Calcium every time and switch it every 3-4 feedings with Reptivite vitamins, which has D3 22880 m.j./ kg so she gets multivitamin about 4-5 times a month if I calculate correctly.

She has only one lamp, it's "All in one Repti Planet lamp", it has both UVA and UVB and it's in the picture

The lay bin is our old bucket (so I don't really wanna take a picture of it haha) and it's full of peat. She laid eggs once, unfertilized, 52 eggs and laid them about 3 months ago
 
Last edited:
Hello :) The thermal burns are old and she already had them when I got her. It didn't heal fully. I asked the vet if something exists that would make the burns heal more but he said no, that reptiles breathe through the skin so any cream medication on the skin wouldn't really be helpful. Ok I’m glad to hear they are not new and have been addressed.

She didn't burn herself since I had her, I managed to put the branches down enough so that she can't burn herself. But if it's necessary I will find a way to put the lamp on top of the cage :)

I feed her every other day, for example: Monday feeding, Tuesday no feeding, Wednesday feeding again etc.
She gets 3 roaches every feeding day but I noticed that lately she only wanted 2...
I know that superworms are high in fat so I don't give her a lot. Only like 4 times a month as a "treat" I give her 3 superworms. Good :)

I breed my roaches and I give them leafy greens (romaine lettuce or iceberg lettuce) like 80% of time and the remaining 20% I give them apples. Id consider feeding them other items besides the lettuce, both are basically crunchy water with minimal nutrients. @MissSkittles can you attach gut load options please?

I dust every insect I give her. I use Calcium every time and switch it every 3-4 feedings with Reptivite vitamins, which has D3 22880 m.j./ kg so she gets multivitamin about 4-5 times a month if I calculate correctly. @MissSkittles can you give feedback on the supplements? Due to their uvb light being different than the T5HO I’m not sure if this would be correct.

She has only one lamp, it's "All in one Repti Planet lamp", it has both UVA and UVB and it's in the picture. Ive heard of these lights before however I am not familiar with them. Do you know what uvb reading she is getting on that top branch? Do you have a T5HO hood and lights available where you live?

The lay bin is our old bucket (so I don't really wanna take a picture of it haha) and it's full of peat. She laid eggs once, unfertilized, 52 eggs and laid them about 3 months ago. 52 eggs is a lot for her little body. You’ll need to lower temps and feeding for her so she produces less eggs. Ideally, you want her to lay around 20 eggs.
 
I’ll be putting my feedback in bold red and will probably break this into two sections. I may repeat something that @elizaann2 might have already said.

Your Chameleon - The species: sex, age, how long has it been in your care --- Female veiled chameleon, 11 months old, 5 months in my care
Handling - How often --- Few times a week, but I try to not force it and let her come to me Until she is feeling and acting like her normal again, or lays eggs, I suggest not handling her.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham --- roaches and like 4 times a month a few silworms This is okay, but it would be better to add more variety, like crickets, locusts, black soldier fly larvae, silkworms more often, etc. It’s best to feed our girls just 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week (plus treats), which will greatly help reduce their egg production.
How are you gut-loading your feeders --- I give the insects vegetable Okay. Some are better than others though, especially greens. Spinach, kale and a few other greens are high in oxalates which bind to calcium so we want to avoid those. Putting graphics below to help guide you.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule --- I use calcium on every feeding I’m hoping it is both phosphorus-free and does not have vitamin D3. and every third-fourth feeding I use reptivite Your ReptiVite with D3 is perfect, but you want to use it only one feeding every other week (or twice a month if you prefer). Some of the vitamins, like A and D3 are fat soluble meaning they are not quickly processed and eliminated by the body. Giving too often or too much can cause them to build up to dangerous levels.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: How often and how long to you mist --- I mist by myself, in the morning and night for about 3 minutes. If the humidity gets too low, I mist during the day to get the levels up Okay, good. But do make sure that your enclosure is able to dry out during the day.
What is the schedule --- Misting in the morning and an hour after misting I turn on her basking lamp. The lamp is on the whole day. Misting again in the evening and lamp off. Feeding every other day okay…already commented on this.
Do you see your chameleon drinking --- In the beggining of having her, I didn't see her drink at all. I guess she was shy around me. She became used to me and drank around me sometimes. Now, the last week she drank A LOT and I found it quite weird that she's so thirsty every day. Many chameleons are very secretive about drinking. It is suspicious that she is so thirsty now. I do advise a vet visit for this, getting her checked again for parasites and just general wellness.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites --- She had parasites in her poop once. We went to the vet and she healed from that. Now her poop was a little more watery. Not 100% liquid of course, but a little more slimy. It is possible for them to either not have been fully cleared of the parasites they had been treated for or to get infected again. Her poops sound suspicious to me, plus the thirst makes me think of parasites.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. --- She ripped off 1 of her claws somehow, so she might be in pain and it could be another part of her sickness. Sometimes it’s too easy for their little claws to get stuck and rip off. My guess would be that she was climbing or trying to climb the screen top. Do check that area of her foot and look for swelling, nasty looking drainage or pus, redness or other abnormal coloring. Let the vet know to check the area too.

I’m going to end this here. More to come in the second half.


IMG_0025.jpeg
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Cage Type - Your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): What are the dimensions --- She has a medium sized glass enclosure right now, I know that she needs a bigger one and I'm in the process of that. This is most definitely not an appropriate sized enclosure for a chameleon. The minimum size needed is 2x2x4’ (60x60x120 cm). Chameleons are arboreal and must have height. Also, with the appropriate size enclosure, you can leave her lay bin in it all the time, which is best. It’s always risky to try to figure out when she will be needing her lay bin and if she will only have the urge to lay for a short time. If we are too late, she ends up eggbound and without quick veterinary treatment, she will die.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using --- She has solar UVA/UVB, 80W This I believe is a mercury vapor light, which as you already know too well can cause burns. Unless you have a solarmeter 6.5, you have no way of determining how much uvb she is actually getting also. You need to get a linear T5 uvb with either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. Then place that a distance of 8-9” (20-22 cm) above her basking area. You will need to get a separate basking bulb - one that is just heat and light…no uvb. Having any lights inside the enclosure with a chameleon is just not a good idea and is high risk for burns. Regarding the T5 uvb, I do caution against any brands other than Arcadia and ReptiSun. While the fixture is ok, the uvb bulbs are not reliable in their output.
What is your daily lighting schedule --- Lamp is turned on 1 hour after morning misting and turned off right before evening misting. okay. Having lights on/off for a 12 hour schedule is what is best.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot) --- Basking spot 30°, floor 25° This is too warm for a girl. We keep our girls a bit cooler than the boys and don’t want basking temps to get over 80F (26c).
Lowest overnight temp: --- 25° This is also too warm. It’s best to have a nice cool night for all chameleons, and preferably at least 70F (21 c) or below. Not everyone can achieve that, but we do our best to try.
How do you measure these temps --- thermometer with build in hygrometer Okay. I suggest getting a second one - maybe a different brand - just to make sure of accuracy. A digital one with a wired probe end is usually pretty accurate.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels --- During the day 30-40%, after misting about 80% Very good. The ideal range for daytime is between 30-50%.
How are you creating and maintaining these levels --- If the humidity gets under 30%, I mist a little bit to get it up. This is why I question the accuracy of your hygrometer. You have live plants inside of a glass enclosure and it just doesn’t make sense to me that your humidity would ever get below 30%.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? --- pothos and ficus excellent. Our ladies especially like to nibble on their plants, so it’s best and safest for them to be all live.

All of the rest is fine. Of course my job is calling and I have to go for a bit. I will return and finish addressing your girls not eating and lethargy.

Placement - Where is your cage located --- On top of a cabinet
Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas: --- I guess that it's in a place that we pass by a lot, but we move slowly so she isnt scared
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor: --- 100cm?
Location - Where are you geographically located: --- Czech republic
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about: --- chameleon not eating
Cage Info: --- glass cage
 
While you do have several things to improve upon, I don’t believe any one thing is causing the problems with your cutie…unless she needs to lay eggs and is eggbound. 52 is a lot of eggs and the more eggs they produce, the harder it can be for them to lay them and there’s much higher risk for becoming eggbound or having follicular stasis, where the eggs don’t progress as they should and can’t be laid. There are very simple ways to prevent large clutches of eggs and getting eggbound. The first is keeping basking temperatures cooler as I said above. This helps slow their metabolism just enough and prevents them from being so hungry, which relates to the next step. You need to limit how much she eats, again as mentioned above. The third is providing a permanent lay bin in her enclosure, so when she needs it, there it is. There’s also providing absolute and total privacy once she enters her lay bin and starts digging. If she sees anyone, she may stop laying and get eggbound. If she doesn’t like something about her lay bin, and she can’t find anywhere else to lay her eggs, she may get eggbound. They are very particular and take care of their eggs. They have no idea that they aren’t fertile and so they treat them as precious. Some of the signs of illness and being eggbound are staying low in the enclosure or not basking, not eating or not eating like usual, lethargy, eyes closed during the day, poor grip or falling, and also some may just randomly drop eggs in different places. Adding to the concern that she may be eggbound is the suspicion that she may have parasites. I’m afraid she needs to be seen by a good veterinarian as soon as possible. Waiting too long can cause her to become too weak to recover.
Although she is getting too much of vitamins D3 and preformed vitamin A, I don’t think it would cause her to be so declined like this. The other concern is there’s no way of determining how much uvb she actually gets from the light and it could be way too much or not even close to enough. Again though, I somehow don’t have this as the first cause for her decline. She is showing gravid colors, which is why I believe she may have an egg problem.
One last thing that I forgot to mention as it’s important and needs to change, but isn’t a high immediate priority, although the fix is quick and easy. No fake plants in the enclosure. They don’t recognize that a plant is fake and it takes only one bite of a fake leaf to cause a bowel obstruction.
I hope I’ve been of some help to you. Not sure that my brain is functioning here 100%, (rough night) but hopefully someone else will catch anything I may have missed.
 
Thank you @MissSkittles for all the help and information! The only things I would add are some resources for you. A great place to learn more about care for a veile chameleon is:

The Chameleon Academy - website
The Chameleon Academy - YouTube - there s also a podcast
Neptune the Chameleon - website
Neptune the Chameleon - YouTube

A great care sheet for your girl can be found here: https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Veiled-Care-Summary-2022C.pdf

I'm also attaching:
A document on lay bins so you have something to follow for your girl
A document on safe plants
And a checklist on what a chameleon needs in their enclosure set up - this help make it a little easier and I even follow this for all my chams :)

Please let us know if/what other questions you have!
 

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You said…”I asked the vet if something exists that would make the burns heal more but he said no, that reptiles breathe through the skin so any cream medication on the skin wouldn't really be helpful”…this is a red flag, it’s perfectly ok to use a cream on the burns to prevent infection and help them heal…and chameleons do not breath through their skin. You need a good exotics vet.

Also, that’s a lot of eggs she produced. I hope she is not retaining any. An X-ray should show if there are refined eggs or if she’s developing follicles.
I also hope that you can control the temperature and diet so she won’t produce that many in the next batch, or develop follicular stasis or dystocia.
 
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