Sick?

[Mystique]

To start, my name is Tanya and I own a juvenile veiled chameleon named Mystique. My husband and I have always wanted a chameleon and bit the bullet late March and purchased one. I'll admit that I'm not not extremely versed in reptiles but I've read/been reading all I can to be the best chameleon owner I can be.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 18" x 18" x 24" Exo Terra with a screen top.
Lighting - We have her on a 12 hr cycle of 12 hrs of light and dark. Usually 12 to 12 since we have odd schedules. Her lighting is Exo Terra Repti Glo 2.0 and a 50 watt basking light of the same brand.
Temperature - I generally try to keep her at 80-90 overall cage temp during the day with the basking light area 100-105. Night I try to keep her under 80. It's been a bit warmer lately so she might be getting a little too warm. We've recently turned on the A/C which has leveled out her night time and she has a red heat light.
Humidity - I have a hygometer on the side of her tank and I generally try to keep her humidity 50-80% Missouri humidity can be crazy so it fluctuates a lot. I mist her anywhere between 4-6 times daily to keep it above 50%.
Plants - Plants are artificial.
Placement - We have her near a livingroom window but we have our drapes drawn. She gets airflow from some fans but it's not directly on her. She's in a moderately trafficed area.
Location - Missouri

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, believe she's a female as she has no spurs and a small casque and not 100% on her age. I know she's really young though... maybe 6"-7" long with her tail. She's been in my care 2 months.
Handling - We handle her a couple of times a day for a few to 10 minutes are so.
Feeding - She gets crickets (7 or so day, generally at the beginning of her day cycle), freeze dried meal worms and occasionally wax worms. I haven't been buying them often because the pet store jips me and give me mostly caccoons. The crickets are gut loaded with some Zilla. It has the calcium powder added.
Supplements - It's in with her feed.
Watering - I mist in distilled water and she drinks it off the leaves and/or glass.
Fecal Description - Her stool seems solid, a little slimy and is brown in color with a yellowy tip.
History - I've not had her too long so I'm afraid I don't have much history but I do know she's not being herself!

Current Problem - Ok, here's my concern; Lately Mystique has been acting out of sorts. She's not been eating like usual, has been closing her eyes often during the day, and isn't puffing out when she doesn't want to be messed with but is rather sucking in. She opens her mouth randomly and acts as if she's swallowing but hasn't eaten anything in a while. When she does this, she'll puff out her chin and sometimes sling her head. Could something be caught in her throat maybe? Also, I've noticed a few times when swallowing crickets, that her eye will occasionally bulge out and look super gross. It freaks me out but seems to go away after the cricket is swallowed. I thought perhaps that the cricket was a bit too big and was maybe putting pressure behind her eye. Then today I hadn't seen her eat anything and the eye bugged out. She started rubbing it on her vine and it went away again. I read an article saying it could be high blood pressure and said to change her diet but not to what. She's only had crickets for the past 2 weeks... should I find something else? She's being more lethargic than usual and is currently shedding (almost done) but hasn't acted like this during any of her other sheds. This started just before her shed. I've noticed that she's keeping her head tilted upwards while she's just sitting there, generally eyes closed. She still changes colors, has good looking normal color and has been super pissy! Before she didn't mind being touched but now she's in moody mode and actually tried to bite me for the first time tonight. She's just not the same lizard. A few minutes ago, I was taking photos of her and she kept her eyes closed almost entire time and when I tried to get her on my hand to put her up, she wouldn't open them.

I'm getting a bit worried about her and I don't think my vet will be any help as he specializes in large animals, I'll be calling all the local vets tomorrow to see if I can find ANYONE who can help. I have no clue where/if there are any vets that specialize in reptiles in my area. Am I gonna lose my girl? I've done tons of research and have been doing all that I can to make sure she has a safe/healthy environment. I just don't know what else to do.:S

This is how she looks most of the time... head up and eyes closed.

This is her when she's randomly opening her mouth, looking like she's swallowing. You can also she her sucking in on her belly.

This is how she looked when we first got her. She's grown considerably. (I'm a photographer so the watermark is mine)

About 1 - 1 1/2 weeks after we got her.

 

[jannb]

First you are cooking her in that heat. Her basking temps should be in the low 80's. The bottom of cage should be in the low to mid 70's. She needs an all screen cage. They need plenty of ventilation.

Do you have a UVB light? Is it the compact light or long tube style? She needs at lease 5.0.

You need to dust feeders daily with plain calcium and twice a month with calcium with D3 and once a month with a multi vit. dust.

She needs gutloaded LIVE feeders.

Here's a good link to get info on raising a veiled chameleon: http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

 

[jojackson]

Night time heating not required where you are unless it falls below about 60f.
Your chams looks young, the basking temp may be slightly too hot, especially since the glass terrarium offers little ventilation.

Eye bugging/rubbing is seen during sloughing, the belly sucking may be related.
Holding the head titled up is concerning if its doing it alot, this can be a sign of respitory distress. Beware of draughts.

Closing the eyes is often associated with inappropriate lighting, Ie compact (short swirly) Uv bulbs are a common culprit, you dont mention if yours is one of these.
If it only doesit while your present, it may be stress related.

There will no doubt be a slew of posts examining in detail your setup, asking for setup pics etc. I cant link you to vets in your area since I havent got a clue where you are.
best wishes

 

[dodolah]

1st thing 1st:
Consult: www.herpvetconnection.com for an exotic vet nearby your area.
Make an appointment. I think her legs a bit bowed (the first picture where she closed her eyes).
So, she might suffer from mild MBD (Metabolic Bone Disorder) -perhaps from improper UVB tube that you have. She needs a 5.0 TUBE not a 2.0

Here is the problem area you can improve on while having her treated by the vet:

Instead of Cage Type - 18" x 18" x 24" Exo Terra with a screen top.
try to get her screen cage like this:

Lighting - We have her on a 12 hr cycle of 12 hrs of light and dark. Usually 12 to 12 since we have odd schedules. Her lighting is Exo Terra Repti Glo 2.0 and a 50 watt basking light of the same brand.

12 on 12 off is good. But, the schedule is not good. Change to 6 am to 6 pm. Try to follow the sun. Sunrise lights on, sunset lights off.
The UVB 2.0 is good for pygmy chameleon.
You have a veiled chameleon. They need stronger light.
Get reptiSUN 5.0 TUBE. Be precise for this light. Don't substitute it period.
No matter what pet store people told you:
No. Reptiglo is not the same. and No.. Compact ReptiSun is not the same as Linear Reptisun (Do NOT buy the coiled or spiral uvb light -they can damage your chameleon's eyes).

Temperature - I generally try to keep her at 80-90 overall cage temp during the day with the basking light area 100-105.
Wayyy too Hot (that's why she's gaping). 85F will be the HOTTEST BAsking temp I go with her.
70 to 75 Overall cage temp is good.
Night time should be without the red heat light.
Chameleon can see red light. So, she might be waking up every night.

She can withstand 60F even all the way to 50F.
So night heat lamp is not required. Plus, chameleon benefit from a 10 dgree temp drop at night to induce deep slumber.

Humidity - I have a hygometer on the side of her tank and I generally try to keep her humidity 50-80% Missouri humidity can be crazy so it fluctuates a lot. I mist her anywhere between 4-6 times daily to keep it above 50%.

40% - 60% is good range. Misting 4 - 6 times is ok provided you allow drying time in between sessions.

Plants - Plants are artificial.
Get a real one. Hibiscus Rosa Sinensis, Pothos, Ficus Benjamina, and Dwarf Umbrella tree are good choice


Handling - We handle her a couple of times a day for a few to 10 minutes are so.
No handling except for cleaning the cage and so on.


Supplements - It's in with her feed.
Not enough. This is why I think she got MBD (apart from the fact that she is not getting a proper light).
You need 3 supplements at least.
Multivitamin: Reptivite
Calcium w/o D3: Minerall 0
Calcium With D3: Repcal D3
Dust multivitamin once a week, Dust D3 twice a week, Dust Calcium the rest of the days of the week, have 1 day no dusting at all.


Hope that helps.

 

[Mystique]

First you are cooking her in that heat. Her basking temps should be in the low 80's. The bottom of cage should be in the low to mid 70's. She needs an all screen cage. They need plenty of ventilation.

Do you have a UVB light? Is it the compact light or long tube style? She needs at lease 5.0.

You need to dust feeders daily with plain calcium and twice a month with calcium with D3 and once a month with a multi vit. dust.

She needs gutloaded LIVE feeders.

Here's a good link to get info on raising a veiled chameleon: http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

I'll try to answer questions to both posts.

It said on the package that the bulb was a 2.0 UVB light. It's a compact coiled one. As for the temps, I was following the brochure that I got when I purchased her. My first reptile, I won't deny that I'm ignorant. I guess it wasn't very correct with its information then. I've had the same set up and haven't had a problem... I'll be changing what I can though asap to see if it helps. I'll get her a 5.0 whenever I can.

We've obviously been given bad information from the pet store as we got everything they recommended for her.

She does get live crickets daily, they get gut loaded food that said it had the required calcium dust... I'll get some extra I guess to be on the safe side? The waxworms are also live that she gets... the freeze dried meal worms are mostly just in the feeder in case she wants a snack after her crickets. They're not a main food.

Not the best photo, I have poor lighting in my living room but this is a shot of her terrarium and her in it. We're planning on building her a new/bigger one in the near future. We just got what the pet store had. We thought it would sustain her until we could get the supplies needed to erect her a better environment.

Her eyes are closed pretty much all the time now and as I said, she does act as if something is stuck in her throat. Her head is constantly up as well, why I'm so concerned as I know it's not normal. I do have the compact bulb and will try to get a new one.

Salem, Missouri is where I live. It's a small farming community so we don't have a whole lot of anything.:S

I'll get more shots of her terrarium.

 

[dodolah]

Your setup sounds very similar to what PetSmart/ Petco's staff would suggest.

With that said, we have couple of things to change.

#1 get the appointment asap. I do not like the fact she is closing her eyes too often. On top of that, you also say that she constantly lifting his head up. Is she breathe a bit heavy? When she is sleeping, try to listen close to her (without waking her up), any purring, cracking, or wheezing sounds coming out of her?

#2 Get a smaller wattage incandescent bulb to lower the heat or raise the bulb further away from the top of the screen.

#3 Stop using night light anymore.
#4 Get rid of the coco substrate.

Here is a sample of my settings:
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/veiled-and-panther-chameleon-care-101.html

Since you have a female 18X18X36 is sufficient.

 

[Mystique]

Your setup sounds very similar to what PetSmart/ Petco's staff would suggest.
With that said, we have couple of things to change.
#1 get the appointment asap. I do not like the fact she is closing her eyes too often.
try to get smaller wattage to lower the heat or raise the bulb further away from the top of the screen.

Stop using night light anymore.
Get rid of the coco substrate.

Here is a sample of my settings:
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/veiled-and-panther-chameleon-care-101.html

Since you have a female 18X18X36 is sufficient.

I won't deny it, we did purchase her from Petsmart. I know not the best place in the world but we weren't sure where else to purchase one.

We stopped using the night heat after I began reading up on them some more and have been trying to figure out a way to lift the basking light until we could get a better terrarium.

 

[jojackson]

Excepting the plant top right, there dosent really appear to be a basking spot where it get under the light. (thought it may hide in the plant and overheat)
You might consider a dripper too, (new cage) if her urate is tending yellowish she may not be getting sufficient water from misting/food anymore.

 

[Jakedn]

You can order things for pretty cheap from some of our sponsors. Go to the view our sponsors page and take a look if you can't find what you need locally.

 

[dodolah]

I won't deny it, we did purchase her from Petsmart. I know not the best place in the world but we weren't sure where else to purchase one.

We stopped using the night heat after I began reading up on them some more and have been trying to figure out a way to lift the basking light until we could get a better terrarium.

It's good that you found this forum much earlier. Trust me, your case is not unique. There are many here that undergo similar experience with yours. You can pretty much disregard everything that the reptile expert at Pet Smart say to you about how to care for chameleon.

All the links that everybody gave you are good readings on how to properly care for your chameleon.
Mind you that there are a LOT of stuff for you to read.
understanding the proper care can assure her live happy and healthy.

But, you need to act quite fast. Chameleon can deteriorate rather quickly.

 

[Mystique]

Excepting the plant top right, there dosent really appear to be a basking spot where it get under the light. (thought it may hide in the plant and overheat)
You might consider a dripper too, (new cage) if her urate is tending yellowish she may not be getting sufficient water from misting/food anymore.

The top right is where we have her "sunlight" and then the front left was her heat basking light. We were told we only need the one UVB light. Perhaps I should have went with my gut and got 2.

 

[Mystique]

It's good that you found this forum much earlier.
She can still live happy and healthy.
But, you need to act quite fast. Chameleon can deteriorate rather quickly.

I want what's best for my critters (have an english bulldog and a hermit crab too) and will talk to my husband as soon as he gets home from work. He just adores her so I'm sure he'll be more than supportive to get whatever she needs... hopefully it won't break us.:S We've had so many things go wrong lately.

All the vets are quite a ways a way but I'll see what I can do. I have a friend that lives in Columbia, perhaps she can put me up for however long she'll need to be there. It's the closest one but it still about a 1 1/2 hr drive.

 

[jojackson]

No, you only need one Uv. I presumed the big bright light above the tank on the right was your heat source. I refer to the first cage pic.

Edit: closer inspection reveals that is the 2.0 compact. my mistake.
Incase it wasnt clear, when you buy a 5.0 it should be a long tube, not a short one like that.

 

[dodolah]

The top right is where we have her "sunlight" and then the front left was her heat basking light. We were told we only need the one UVB light. Perhaps I should have went with my gut and got 2.

No. 1 uvb light is correct. But, they gave you the wrong intensity.
2.0 is for Pygmy chameleons.
Veiled need a stronger one. They need 5.0 ReptiSUN.

Also, just for reference. two 2.0 does not equal one 5.0.
It does not work that way.
Since your case is a bit of emergency, I would save the time from explaining things. Perhaps, later when your chameleon is getting better, I can talk to you more about it.

 

[Mystique]

No, you only need one Uv. I presumed the big bright light above the tank on the right was your heat source. I refer to the first cage pic.

Nah, I had turned off the basking light in hopes too cool off the ambient temp until I could get her checked out.

I appreciate all the help and hope I'm not too late.

 

[Mystique]

No. 1 uvb light is correct. But, they gave you the wrong intensity.
2.0 is for Pygmy chameleons.
Veiled need a stronger one. They need 5.0 ReptiSUN.

Also, just for reference. two 2.0 does not equal one 5.0.
It does not work that way.
Since your case is a bit of emergency, I would save the time from explaining things. Perhaps, later when your chameleon is getting better, I can talk to you more about it.

Yeah I didn't think 2 of them would be any greater, just cover a greater area to give her the best range of light was my thought. I'll definitely try to get her the new stuff she needs.

 

[jojackson]

Mystique Ive edited my last post for clarification.
Short UV bulbs like yours are referred to as 'compact', normal longer UV tubes, the type dod refers to are called 'linear tubes'. These are safer and will provide the coverage you wanted.

 

[dodolah]

check the links we gave you for proper care.
Since you have a female, 18 18 36 size is a good size for her.
check lllreptile.com. They have all the things you need.
Buy live plants when you can (Hibiscus Rosa Sinensis is awesome plant for her).
Prepped the plant before you introduce it to her.

Now, the vet appointment/ the lights/ the temps/ the supplements/ and the enclosure are your priority.

 

[jojackson]

Prepped the plant before you introduce it to her.

= wash the plant roots n all, repot with organic (prefrable finely sifted) soil, to avoid poisoning from added fertilisers etc and avoid impaction from impuritys like barkpeices etc.

 

[Mystique]

UPDATE:

Ok, so I talked to a friend of mine who has had chams in the past, I didn't know this as she's an online friend, and she gave me pretty much all the info that I've received from this forum (I'm deeply grateful!) She has an 18x18x36 screen cage that she's not using is willing to ship it to me. I can't thank her enough for being so sweet!

I talked to my husband and I'll be taking her to the vet tomorrow to see what they think and what they can do for her and us. We're both worried about her and just want her to make it so we can give her a better environment.

Again, I thank you all for being so kind and helpful. It's truly appreciated! *group hug*